Rhetoric, he needs to tone it up. Really . And cnn just learning that authorities now believe the suspicious passage addressed to billionaire democratic do donor tom steyer is also from cesar sayoc. Steyer is my guest. Good evening, everyone. Im kate bolduan. Outfront tonight, we have breaking news. Behind bars, the alleged bomb maker now linked to at least 14 ieds sent across the country is in jail tonight. This, were going to show you is video of cesar sayoc leaving the Fbi Field Office in miramar, florida. Hes been charged with five federal crimes, including illegal mailing of explosives and threats against former president s. Sayoc could face up to 48 years in prison if convicted. And this, were going to show you, is where it all went down. In the parking lot of an Auto Parts Store near ft. Lauderdale, florida. Officials also hauling away the suspects white van, which has been plastered with stickers, with images, a lot of images of President Trump, Vice President mike pence, but also images of democrats like Hillary Clinton with a target on her face as well as a sticker that says, cnn sucks. The fbi director this afternoon laying out how serious a threat sayoc posed. 13 ieds were septembnt to va individuals across the country. Each device consisted of roughly six inches of pvc pipe, a small clock, a battery, some wiring and what is known as energetic material, which is essentially potential explosives and material that give off heat and energy through a reaction to heat, shock, or friction. Though were still analyzing the devices in our laboratory, these are not hoax devices. Not hoax devices. From the fbi director. And this list, as i mentioned, its now growing. Again, tonight, 14 ieds that map is absolutely crazy. Authorities are just telling cnn that they believe the suspicious package addressed to billionaire democratic donor tom steyer is also from cesar sayoc. Also discovered today, packages to Democratic Senators cory booker and Kamala Harris and former director of national intelligence, james clapper. That package intended for clapper was addressed to cnn. Here in new york. And tonight, the president is acknowledging that the suspect does support him politically. I did not. I did not see my face on the van. I dont know i heard he was a person that preferred me over others, but i did not see that. Guess thats an acknowledgment of something. Jim sciutto is outfront in washington. This all went down fairly quickly today, and now the suspect is in custody. Reporter thats right. Within about an hour of that package to director clapper being discovered, the feds had their man, remarkably quick work here, and the keys were two clues, a fingerprint and dna discovered on more than one of those packages. Tonight, 56yearold cesar sayoc is in custody. We can confirm that 13 ieds were sent to various individuals across the country. These are not hoax devices. Reporter Officials Say that he was living with his parents, but they had kicked him out. So he was now living out of his van, which authorities took into custody after his arrest. The van, covered in political decals, images of the president and Vice President and one saying, cnn sucks. A frequent chant at the president s rallies. Sayoc attended one of those rallies in melbourne, florida, in 2017, and held up a sign with the same message. He has been active across social media, posting images of himself at trump rallies, prorepublican messages, attacking many of his alleged targets, such as Hillary Clinton and former president barack obama. Even posting memes attacking billionaire investor george soros after a potential explosive was found at soros home. Other alleged targets, former Vice President joe biden, senator cory booker and congresswoman maxine waters. And sayoc posted a series of threats directed at cnn. Its anchors, correspondents, and contributors. The Washington Post quoting one of his former employers, describing the disturbing images on his van. It was puppets with their heads cut off, mannequins with their heads cut off, ku klux klan, a black person being hung. Online records show that sayoc has an extensive arrest record across two states including grand theft, battery, fraud, drug possession and one in miami in 2002, which according to a Police Report he threatened to blow up a florida Utility Company worse than september 11th. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to a years probation. Now, he faces five federal charges, up to 48 years in prison. The defendants conduct as charged is cowardly and reprehensible and totally anathema to our democracy. Reporter sayoc will make his First Court Appearance on monday, ultimately were learning this is going to be handled by federal prosecutors in new york. The Southern District of new york, the same court that has dealt with Many International terror suspects as well. Great to see you, jim. Thank you so much. Outfront for us now is debra. Shes a general manager of new river pizza and fresh kitchen in ft. Lauder dadale where sayoc worked for several months until he quit in january. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Really amazing circumstances that im speaking to you under. He worked with you until january. What did you think when you heard him named today . I was shocked. I could believe it. My hair stood up. I knew he had issues. He really was not he definitely beat to the beat of his own drum. He was antigay, antiblack, antijewish, you name it, everybody that really wasnt white and wasnt a white supremacist didnt belong in the world. Thats what he used to say to me all the time. But i really was shell shocked when i found out it was him. I really couldnt believe it, because as far as an employee, he was on time, he was cordial, he was articulate. I never had any problems with him. There was no theft. My customers liked him. But it was just his political views that scared me. Basically, he was a model employee. Thats what i i cant understand. Im sitting here saying to myself, what happened . I just cant go ahead. Debra, it almost sounds like two different people. Youre talking about an employee who shows up on time, who was, as you said, cordial, but he had issues i mean, and when you talk about the things hes spouting, clearly he had issues. Was he violent . Not at all. There was no violence at all. I mean, he made it a point he knew i was a lesbian and he made it a point to tell me that god had made a mistake with me and that i should burn in hell he would just say that to you, just straight to your face . Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. But my mother brought me up to always believe the best in people. You know, and turn the other cheek, and i had people not like me because ive been gay, and to me, i didnt have to go home with him. He was not a friend of mine. I just hired him. He did his job. And thats how i looked at it. You know, i didnt you know, accept his political views. We had arguments about it. You know, he invited me many, many times out. He said he worked at a casino, to come and see some shows with him. But i couldnt bring a partner. I had to come alone. Sorry about that. But as far as an employee goes, he really was wonderful. Im just i wish i had more like him as far as that aspect goes, but on the other aspect, the van was frightening. I wanted to ask you about the van. The ku klux klan there has been so much attention on his van today. Did he bring that very same van to work . Absolutely. He did. And thats why i hired him to drive at night. I couldnt have him driving in the daytime. I had him driving at night. He parked the van around the corner. I never got any complaints from any of the customers. If i did, he would have been fired. I cant and this is what people seem not to understand. I cant fire somebody because of their political views. Whether they dont like me or they dont like a black person or a gay person, i cant do that. I cant. As much as id like to, i couldnt. But his van was freaky scary. I actually was talking to my brother a few minutes ago, and i was telling him he was driving me home one night because it was raining, and when i got in the van, i just remember looking, is there any way i can get out . Because i said, he really appreciated me as a general manager, liked me, but hated me as being a lesbian, so i always wanted to make sure if he ever offered me a ride that i could find a way out of that van. Debra, thats actually what i wanted to ask you. Youve been inside that van. Can you describe what you saw inside . The van had a lot of mcdonalds, taco bell boxes, lot of laundry, hygienically, it was filthy. It was dirty. It was smelly. It was beer bottles in there, vodka bottles in there. But he always dressed impeccably. He always had on nice cologne. He always looked great. If he was delivering my food to me, id say, hey, come on in. He always played the part very well and maybe thats just it. He played the part real well. Was he was it your understanding he was living in the van at the time when he worked with you . No. He told me that his family they were from the seminole tribe and he had a home on the reservation here, and he also had a home in plantation, and he was very proud that he just got accepted into driving, like, a hazmat trucker, going to the different ports with biochemicals, and this was he was going to school in north carolina. And he was very proud of that. I saw in the Washington Post, he told their reporter that inside the van, there were puppets with their heads cut off and mannequins with their heads cut off in. Puppets with their mannequins and puppets and nooses, you know, but that was on his van also. There was ku klux klan, there was nazi symbols. Did he talk to you about these things when you were in there . No. Absolutely not. He talked to me about coming to a show at the hard rock, but i would have to come by myself. He really he appreciated me as a general manager and that whatever i could do for him, i did. If he needed time off to go home early, i would let him go home early and i appreciated him as being on time and being, you know, articulate and due diligent and all of that. As far as the political views, no, we when he would start on that, i would just kind of nip it in the bud and say, you got a delivery up, you got to go. He knew that i was a very strong supporter, very strong lesbian, very proud of my sexuality, but more than once, he told me that if he had complete autonomy, i would burn in hell with all the blacks and jews and hispanics and everybody else. It was just the White Supremacists that were going to rule the world. And unfortunately, he said, debra, as much as i like you, youre going to be the first one i burn. Geez. Did he openly talk proudly about did he call himself a white supremacist . Did he openly talk about it . Yes, he called himself a white supremacist and he called himself a nazi supporter. Did he talk about i mean, if you look at his van, you see stickers of President Trump, Vice President pence, did he talk about the president . He talked about obama and Hillary Clinton, that he detested them. And that i would be on that island that he blew up with them. So, those two, the only two. And cnn. And cnn. And as a matter of fact, Rachel Maddow, i love Rachel Maddow and we talked about her, and she was one of the other lesbians that was going to go on the island with me. Did he talk about where he got this from . I mean, did he talk about because he was seen during the, you know, 2016 and hes been at rallies, hes posted about being at rallies with the president. Did he talk about where his burning hate of cnn came from or of anyone else . No. He just he just said that the people that he labeled were very weak and that he would that he wanted to purify society. So, in order to do that, he would have to get rid of the gays and the lesbians and the tra transgenders and the blacks and the jews and whoever else didnt follow his suit, whoever else didnt follow his policy and political views. Did he ever talk about family . I must go ahead. Im sorry. Go ahead. No, his father no, thats all right. His father, he told me, was a construction worker and he had a lot of contracts with the hard rock casino, and he was living on the reservation and i was we would talk a lot about certain things because the referendum was just coming up in massachusetts about gambling and i wanted to know about, you know, what its like being born in a tribe and, you know, what it affords you and things like that, and he would tell me about that, how much money he would get and the stipends and living on the reservation, and his father getting all the contracts from the reservation. Things like that. I mean, we actually had intelligent conversations, but then, i dont know, it seemed like i dont know if it all of a sudden he came to and said, oh my god, im talking to a lesbian and she seems to be a little bit articulate and smart, now ive got to throw her a dig. So it really lasted five minutes and then he would tell me that, you know, god made a mistake with me and i was deformed and abnormal and things like that. Geez. I think a lot of people tonight are going to be amazed that you could carry on those conversations and work in a workplace with him. But why did he quit, debra . Well, im he quit because he got this job driving a truck in north carolina. And he had to quit. And we were i was everyone was real proud of him because he said that only a few people get picked for this, and everybody was, like, you know, youre going to do really well at it, cesar we called him cesar and youre going to do very well at it. And i have to you just brought up a point, you know, why i was able to deal with him. I must tell you that my mother is, right now, in my brain, in my heart, she always told me, you know, you never know where people come from in life, and you always have to give them, you know, love and kindness and maybe theyre suffering something tragic that you dont know about, and thats how i looked at it. I mean, ive lost a lot of friends because ive been a lesbian, but to be honest with you, my mother used to say, those arent the friends that you want. So, i look at it as that he did his job, he did his job impeccable, and i had no right to fire him because his political views were something that were against me. If there was theft or something that i was hearing from different customers, absolutely. He would have been gone in a heartbeat. But just having those political views, i could not fire him. Thats what this country is made of, you know, and im very proud of that. Well, talk about picture of civility and allowing other views to be heard. Debra gureghian, thanks for coming on tonight. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Have a great night. Me too. That was amazing. Outfront with me now, james, retired fbi supervisor, casey jordan is here, criminologist and behavioral analyst, art roderick, and jennifer rogers, former terrorism prosecutor for the Southern District of new york. You guys were all sitting here with me while i was speaking with debra. Casey, i what picture and profile is painted here . It seems like two completely different people that debra is describing. Well, okay, so, technically, everyones going, he has to be mentally ill, but not necessarily so. You have to be deranged to want to hurt someone like this. Not necessarily so. Hes decompensating, hes in an anomic state. He believes hes followed the rules his entire life but nothings going his way. Hes never held down a specific job and hes been living in his van. I think the pivotal hinge was getting kicked out of his parents house. When his mother kicked him out and he finds himself homeless, that gives him a lot of time to start externalizing his locus of control, blaming, scapegoating and as far as we know, he never voted until 2016, which is when he registered as a republican. So for somebody who has a huge void in his life, somebody who was a body builder, according to his cousin, a loss soul, abused steroids that he says rotted his brain, he is looking for direction for the rest of his life and he latched on to an extremist ideology, white supremacy, and it filled the void in his life with purpose and once he could wake up in the morning and say, im going to build a bomb and get back at my president s enemies today, he was probably filled with all kinds of purpose. It gave him a reason to get up and get through his day when i think he had absolutely nothing else going on and i think hes a pathological liar. We dont think hes seminole. I dont think he had a job driving a truck. More will come out but i think he presented a false sense of himself to the outside world, and at a certain point, that snaps, that breaks, and you have to face reality. James, you you go you interview someone like debra to try to learn more about this suspect, what do you take from that . So, to add on to caseys clinical analysis, which is spot on, and thats what our Behavioral Analysis would look at, but look at this guy. This guy is an enigma. Hes a guy that claims membership in the seminole tribe, has a sticker on his van that says native americans for trump and then claims affiliation with white supremacy. The seminole tribe has disavowed him. This is what we would call an edp, an emotionally disturbed person. Someone whos confused, conflicted. Was there a partisan aspect to this . Thats obvious to everyone. But i think on this, you look at his background, you look at the fact that in 2002, he already made a terroristic threat that he was going to blow up the Utility Company in florida, the fact that hes been arrested for drugs, theft, fraud, this guy had a history. What makes it so difficult, everybody wants us to go back and look at facebook posts or look at something that somebody says and unfortunately, when you have free speech rights in this country, people retreat back to, it was just wild hyperbole and thats what makes it difficult. Thats something that strikes me in our conversation just now with debra who worked with him. His views were in plain sight. His hate was out there. But is there anything there that would raise a red flag to suggest that he would do what he did . Well, that interview was quite interesting, because when she started talking about white