Outfront we begin with the breaking news, the officer at the center of the eric garner chokehold case, the case has ignited massive protests across the nation is telling his side of the story for the first time. Cnn learning that officer Daniel Pantaleo has spoken to the detectives, and the officer insisting as he takes down eric garner as you see here in the cell phone video with the arm coming from behind, he is not, he said not, in this interview with the investigators at nypd today, using a controversial chokehold that is banned by the Police Department. Protests are heating up after the grand jury failed to indictment Daniel Pantaleo. Right now you are looking at live pictures in orlando, florida. This is all part of a week of outrage leading up to planned massive demonstration this is weekend. Jason carroll is out front. And what more did the officer tell investigators . Reporter officer Daniel Pantaleo is staying by his story saying he didnt mean to kill garner and did not use the chokehold. He spoke to a panel of investigators and his attorney was there which last twod hours. This is not about whether he committed a crime. The grand jury has already made that determination. This is about whether or not he violated department policy. Use of the chokehold, as you know, is prohibited by nypd policy. Tonight his attorney telling cnn he indicated he never used a chokehold. He used a takedown technique he was taught in the academy. He said he never exerted any pressure on the windpipe and never intended to injure mr. Garner. He was literally trying to effectuate an arrest with someone who was noncompliant. He was confident and related the facts in an accurate and a professional manner. Eric garner was heard,s know in that recording, saying that he could not breathe during the altercation. If investigators determine Daniel Pantaleo violated policy, they will file departmental charges against him. After that he would have a right to a departmental trial f. A judge would determine guilt or innocence, the entire process, im told, could take about three or possibly even four months. And jason, it is pretty interesting, and as we said, hes spoken to the grand jury and the first time hes spoken in this investigation with the nypd which is very important. Are you hearing anything about this we understand he had been on paid administrative leave during the whole grand jury process, but what about now . Will he keep his job . Reporter that is a big question. If he is found to have violated department policy, then what ultimately will it come down to in terms of punishment . It is the police commissioner, bratton, will decide what, if any, punishment this officer will face. So it will come down to the commissioner bratton to make that determination. Jason carroll thank you very much with the breaking news. And now mark omary and harry houck a retired detective and the attorney for dorian brown. And let me start with the statement that the officer telling the nypd he did not use a chokehold which is banned by the nypd, but rather a quote, unquote, takedown technique. What do you say . You know, i dont know why it is that the rules are always changing and the semantics are changing whenever we are talking about victimization in the black community. Anyone who watches this video and i watched it again, as sickening as it is to watch, you can see the officer takes his arm and using his forearm across the windpipe of mr. Garner and hes pulling it forward until he pulls the man down. Takedown maneuvers in Police Department, they involve momentum, they involve physics and leverage designed not to hurt the suspect or the officer. In this case, they he didnt do anything but put his hand around his throat and swing around his neck until he fell to the ground and held on until the man died. This is absolutely a chokehold. The world has seen it as a chokehold and yet again yet again, we have a situation where a Police Department is trying to tell the black community and america something that is just not accurate. And we have to admit, to most people that see that video, they do see a chokehold and there are questions about whether they think it is fair or not. And harry, i spoke to a pathologist who said he should have been indicted because when he looked at the autopsy, there was significant pressure applied to the neck and he saw that in the autopsy and whatever you want to call it, that is what a chokehold does and that is a chokehold and he should have been indicted. That isnt a chokehold. That was a takedown. What is the big difference . If you get a martial arts expert to come on. There is a chuck hold that crushes this here and another one that will choke the arterial arteries. And that is what he used . No. He didnt use a chokehold. I did this 100 times like i told you before. That is the safest way to take down a man that is 64, 350 pounds. And when that officer was down on the ground, he wasnt choking him to death, he just had him by the neck so he could be handcuffed. There is no proof that he died like that man just said, that he was choked to death on the ground. He wasnt. He was breathing when ems bicced h eced picked him up. And this is going to come down to the commissioner britton and if he did violate the rules there will be a trial. And now Daniel Pantaleo is talking in this investigation for the first time that this happened. How likely is it that the nypd will go against the grand jury and the legal system and say, yes, this was wrong . I think theyre going to say it was wrong for a couple of reasons. One, he has sort of become the poster child for Police Actions that are at least interpreted at being brutality. And the other reason is why, ill tell you though im not an expert in it, i did talk to one who is, and though the initial takedown maneuver which is just being argued pay not have been a chokehold, the expert told me, dennis ruud who testified many times, that when he had him on the ground and continues with the pressure on his neck, that was a chokehold. I think nypd will say we cant have officers acting that way and that was a close enough to a policy violation. And there is the reality. Daniel pantaleo cannot be a cop in new york city any more. He is now, like i said, the poster child, hell have to move on to another state and maybe another profession. So james, when you hear that, what do you think . I mean, because part of the problem here is that some people say this wont have happened, there would have been no need for a chokehold or a takedown or whatever if garner was not resisting arrest . Thats correct. At some point we have to not every minor offense committed by a young black american is a capital offense. Were black americans are entitled to judges and juries just like everyone else. And so just like Michael Brown didnt deserve to be killed for whatever offense he may or may not have been committed, and garner did not deserve to be killed for allegedly selling cigarettes and the punishment doesnt fit the crime. And one more issue about what police are supposed to do in this country and i want to play this. This is an officer in a new york during a protest. And so this is a protest and a Police Officer gets a sucker punch. Punched in the face, as you see this. It is hard to tell the two people in the hoodies. The race looks like the guy doing the punching is white from what i can see right here. What is the right response for a Police Officer to do right now, especially in this environment . The guy just got punched in the face. You have to make an arrest. That officer was just assaulted. You cant let that stuff go on. How many more Police Officers should get punched like that. Police officers dont get paid to get punched or killed or hurt. They want to go home just like anybody else. That man that threw a punch at that officer should have been taken down and arrested. Mark omara, do you believe he didnt do that because of the public atmosphere right now . That is part of it. Cops are under the gun right now. They are under the microscope. Ive taken flack for saying that. It is unfortunate that eric garner died but you cannot resist arrest on streets and even with protesting, if you hit a cop, that is a serious offense, arrest him and give a harsh punishment because we have to enforce the laws on the street. James, final word . You know, what should not happen is you dont get to kill someone if they are punched in the face and you dont get to check them to death or shoot them, which is what should have happened in the Michael Brown situation and the eric garner situation. If you think there is a problem, you arrest a person, you dont get to kill young black people in the street. Thanks very much to all of three of you with those latest developments. Next. Protests are heating up across the United States tonight. Surveillance video shows a 12yearold boy playing with a toy gunshot and killed by a white Police Officer. The family speaks to outfront. 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Their attorney will join me in a moment. But first the outfront report on rice. The call to 911. There is a guy out here with a gun and pointing it at everybody. The guy was a 12yearold, tamir rice, seen on Surveillance Video playing with a pellet gun in a park across the street from his cleveland home. The dispatcher didnt relay the part that the gun could be fake. As soon as the officers pull up, within moments tamir rice was killed. Three commands were given to raise your hands by the officer as he pulled up to the gazebo there. Tamir died the next day. And police wouldnt let her go to her dying son. As i was trying to get through to my son, the police told me to calm down or they would put me in the back of the police car. Reporter the county prosecutor said the case will be heard by a grand jury to decide if the officer will face charges. The rice family attorney wants to bypass that process and have the case go directly to trial. We talked about it in ferguson, when there is probable cause, you dont have to have a grand jury. Can you do what the you can do what the constitution says and charge the american. This mother wants justice for her son. Im looking for a conviction. And joining us is paul cohen, along with walter madison, the attorney for rices family. And they are telling us the police have 90 days to finish the investigation and they are going to take the case and put it in front of a grand jury and that is their policy in any fatal use of death by Police Officers. I know the family doesnt want a grand jury and they want charged directly. What can you do . Well the policy should change. They have 90 days to prepare and prep this witness on what they will say and how to avoid the pitfalls or the type of language that would lead to probable cause and the reality is, you cant change what we see in the video and this person this officer, we give them weapons because theyve had hundreds of hours of training. And we they take an oath, they swear to uphold the law. And we give them extra protection and latitude. But when you behave as the video indicates here, so recklessly and with perverse indifference to a childs life, you divest yourself of that deference and should be charged like any other person. So one exPolice Officer was telling me his issue was not with the Police Officer who shot rice, but it was the Police Officer who drove up so close to the boy, leaving his partner, this ex cop said, without any other option. We know that the 911 dispatcher, our understanding is, did not tell those officers that that gun was a toy. That they thought it was a toy. So knowing that, knowing they may have thought the gun was real and knowing they may have driven up too closely, does that change your certainty that something wrong happened . Well first of all, that is part of the training on how they should approach a situation if they believe it is a Deadly Weapon involved or a serious threat. There should be some adherence in the trend to deescalate the situation, not provoke an individual, like in this case a child. They frightened him. It doesnt matter about the weapon, whether it had an orange tip, it wouldnt have made a difference because it was 1. 5 seconds and he was gunned down. It is an important point, paul, that this happened in less than two seconds. How can an officer ascertain anything in that amount of time . There is one thing he can ascertain and that is in ohio, if you have a gun that is a toy gun, it is supposed to have orange on the front of it. Color. Which is what walter was just referring to. But there was no orange on this gun. It had been removed. So this gun would have looked like a real gun. We also know that a pedestrian was walking by on the sidewalk, was frightened so i want to show that, hold on one second, as you bring this up. This video is new to those of you who know the story. This is what happened before the actual incident itself. Tamir rice is there with his gun and as somebody walks by, weve blurred them out for legal reasons but the look on this persons face was one of fear . I saw it before she was blurred out. And the person is terrified. The call that is made to the dispatcher says guy with pistol. So the police, as they approach, think there is a guy with a pistol, there is no orange on it and in that 1. 5 seconds he reaches into his waistband and apparently pulls the gun. So that is not accurate. So my 12yearold can fire a gun as easily as an adult. The call to 911 said it was probably a toy gun. Which was indicated more than one time that the weapon was probably fake and that this was a small child. But that was not reported to the responding officers. Well then that is another issue we have. But were talking about whether this cop should be indicted for criminal behavior. He should be. And he was not told that it was a play gun. In 1. 5 seconds, the police the cleveland Police Department would have us believe that hes able to evaluate a threat, unholster his weapon, aim and fire two shot news the gut of a child in 1. 5 seconds. More likely he that gun out before he got on scene. I would agree with you. If you were to go to that recreation center. I agree with you. He may have had the gun out in advance. But certainly that doesnt but, paul, if you will, the totality of the situation and the circumstances would suggest he was kicked out of one Police Department and trigger happy, unable to manage his emotions in stressful situations and if you go to the caddel rec center and look at that actual crime scene where that boy was murdered and gunned down youll see it was nearly impossible without tearing up the suspension of a vehicle, to get exactly where that car was. There is no reason for them to be there. The officer who fired the gun was not driving the vehicle. So i dont know who made the choice and presumablpresumap but paul this is why it should be presented to the grnl. Which is required by ohio. Im sorry, go ahead walter. Not necessarily. You remember there was a preliminary hearing in ohio and in the cases of Excessive Force with Police Officers, there should be a preliminary hearing. We need to remove the secrecy of grand j