one of the most conservative members of the senate, jim demint, joins us. let's go "outfront." tonight, this. this is a letter from president barack obama. he just sent it to house speaker john boehner. it says, quote, further borrowing is required because the debt is limit to -- is right now close to, well, 11 zeros and a one. that means we need more money. the president's asking congress to raise the debt ceiling by $1.2 trillion. we knew this was coming because this was part of the deal congress and the president signed in august. okay. that doesn't mean it's going to happen without a lot of noise, fur fury. jim demint has led the charge against the nation's debt problem. his new book is now or never and he is "outfront" tonight. so, this letter comes. dr. mr. speaker pursuant to section -- i hear by certify that the debt to limit and further borrowing is required. how does it make you feel? >> like we said, we knew it was coming. strange that the so-called deficit reduction bill just increased our debt and unfortunately, i couldn't vote for it because we not only didn't need the raise the debt limit to the degree they were talking about, but we made this a passable with only a third of the votes of house members and a third of the senate members. normal normally, it takes 60 votes to pass this, but part of the deal was we didn't have to vote for it, but it would pass. so i didn't want to be any part of it. we've got to take the debt more seriously than that. we spend all year talking about deficit reduction. we passed a spending bill for this year that spends more than last year. >> then senator president obama also voted against increasing the debt ceiling. then when he became the president, he realized something, which was true, which is that when you don't do that, you default on the debt. most people who own -- are americans. most people who have promises made by the u.s. government in the past are those who get social security. he's got a fair point. >> we're increasing our spending every year and we have through bush, through obama. we can't keep spending more than we're bringing in. we have to borrow over $120 billion every month to keep the lights on. >> are are you inherently against, talking about the economic psycycle. when things are good, say you didn't spend all your money, then when things are bad, you have a little left over. but also when things are bad, by definition, a government according to many economists, should borrow money. are you against borrowing in any case? >> no, but the scale of bow rowing, our debt is bigger than our economy. we're projecting another $10 trillion over the next ten years. there's not that much money in the woshld to borrow. that's what the whole point of the book is. wa we've had detd, but never on this scale. we still have a president who says balancing the budget is an extreme idea. so the plan is to keep spending more than we're bringing in until the whole house of cards falls down. >> what happened in august. when you voted gens the debt ceiling. stock market fell 634 points in one day. our debt got downgraded by standard & poor's, which over time -- >> after it passed. >> historically, means our interest rates are going to go up. and you know, from mortgages, all kinds of things and the reason that standard & poor's gave the downgrade was it reflects our view that the effectiveness of american policymaking and political institutions is weakened, which makes us pessimistic. that finger was pointed at you as well as the president. >> they don't see the will to stop the spending. they see a spending addiction and don't see any plan or intent to stop spending more than we're bringing in. and that not only sends a signal to the rating agencies, but to our creditors like china and markets all over the world. the only reason we're doing well now as far as our dollar's concerned is the euro's doing worse. >> s&p was agnostic though in terms of how we got extra money. cut spending and increased taxes. is there any tax increase you'd be okay with? >> it doesn't make sense to have to do the wrong thing in order to do the right thing. american businesses and upper income pay a larger portion of the taxes than any country of the world. you've got the top 3%, already pay half or taxes and half of americans don't pay any. we need to get rid of all the loophol loopholes, have a flat rate that's border adjusted so we can compete with the world, but everyone needs to participate. >> and handouts. how do you define handouts? all welfare a handout to you or no? >> i'm not saying throw out the welfare program, but i did propose to take welfare spending back to 2008 levels. we've increased welfare spending 300% since the '90s and have made poverty worse. we're not curing it. we're subsidizing poverty and trapping people in generational poverty. >> i wanted to read you a quote from your book. there's a lot of interesting ideas and solutions. you don't just say there's a problem. there's one thing you say on page 104 that kind of makes a lot of americans cringe. you say democrats exist to beat republicans, period. now, that's the kind of talk that really frustrates people. >> i'm sure it does. >> i introduce that chapter ek planing that i did a lot of work in organizations team build, teaching cooperation. compromise. i once how it works. you've got to have a shared vision and unfortunately, the day, the constituency for the democratic party made up of people dependent on the government and want more power at the federal level like the labor unions. they do, but -- >> you guys don't compromise. >> we're not getting downgraded because we don't compromise. we're getting downgraded because we did. every compromise has led to more spending and a bigger government. we can't keep doing that and the democrats will not compromise with us because they have to keep spending. now, if we could talk about tax increases. we could talk about cutting spentding. but as a congress and country, we have to decide we've got to balance our budget. that needs to be the first thing. in the house of representatives have a bill to send an amendments to the states to ratify. didn't say how we were going to do it. just about every democrat voted against ever balancing our budget. can't live that way. we need to have an honest debate that we have to stop spending more than we're bringing in. if i lose on taxes, so be it, but people need to know the facts. >> although in an cycle, you left open the door. that's an important caveat, but the president said medicare cuts are on the table. >> he never put anything in writing that he would cut. never. and there's never been a proposal that we could say, let's take that and work with it. it's just a hot of talk. >> here's my question and one of the big frustrations people have. nobody on either side of the aisle really wants to cut where the big money is. paul ryan has come up with a plan, but cutting where the big money is, that's medicare. that's medicaid. that's social security. whether you're going to cut or change our benefits are adjusted, index to inflation. that's where the cuts have to come. are you willing to say that to people, that you're not going to get what you were promised? >> we don't need to say that to seniors and no one over 55 should have to change their plans. they paid for it. it's not a charity. >> but somewhere, you've got to draw the line. >> i've put proposals on the table. if we could give younger workers a 401(k) style plans that were cheaper for the government and save money, but i make the point in the book, the democrats will not give younger workers a chance to get out of social security with alternative plans. like paul ryan suggested. why can't you keep your personal health insurance? a lot of americans would opt for that, but the whole point of the book is that there's attention in washington that's not republican-democrat. it's those who want central power and decentralized power, which is what made america great. >> i hear you on your point of view. i know though a lot of americans are so frustrated about the lack of conversation in washington, but i want to play a sound bite. >> you don't get $15 trillion in debt without a lot of compromise and bipartisanship. >> do you acknowledge a lot of that came from george w. bush? >> yes. >> okay. and a lot of republicans are there to bring home the bacon. this is a party with a problem with both parties have been involved with. if you ask anyone, they'll tell you i've been at war with some of my republican colleagues. >> let me play a sound bite. in 2008, here's what you had to say about mitt romney. >> this is a man who knows how to run things and if there's one place that needs to be run right, it's washington. we need a president like mitt romney who e knows about a free enterprise system really works. >> yeah. >> still think it? >> yeah, he knows how to run things and some of the other candidates do, too. i think santorum would, newt gingrich, ron paul. anyone in our field would do better than what we've got now. >> "national journal," romney silent surrogate. >> every time i say something nice and one of the candidates, i start getting all these tweets and e-mails. >> you did say some nice things to the daily call er about ron paul. >> if we don't risen to ron paul's -- several things. the unaccountable federal reserve is going to destroy our monitory system. the cold concept of individual liberty and limited government, that needs to be not only the core of the republican party, but american people need to realize that's what makes us great. if republicans don't listen to ron paul, we're going to have a divided party because the other half of the country that wants more from government is united and they're going to let people who are going to promise more from government. >> you think there's any way you could have a ticket that had ron paul on it even if romney was at the top of it? >> we could. i'm not endorse anyone, so i'd feel good about any of them being elected. they would all be a lot better -- >> before we go, did you know mitt romney was a mexican? >> i don't want to get into that. >> all right. >> is this a birth certificate question? >> we've been talking about it. it's a really neat story. you'll have to stick around it to hear it. thanks for coming on. and mitt romney does hope to be the first mormon president, but would he also be the first mexican president? and the latest in the iranian murder mystery. a third nuclear scientist assassinated. and outrage at the governor. more than 200 convicts granted clemency by mississippi governor haley barbour, why? then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600. how's that for common sense? 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so, this morning, i went to cnn.com and i thought i was looking at, i didn't know, but i saw this headline. could mitt romney be america's first hispanic president? now, this is not something romney ever really talked about about recently and it's gotten a lot of people talking. so much so, there's a fake twitter account. that's a little funny. but this all started when romney revealed some personal information on the campaign trial. >> when i think about the blessing of america, i think not only about my own dad, he was born in mexico of american parents living there, and he came back to the united states when he was about 5 or 6 years old. my dad never got a college degree, but was able to achieve his dreams and became a successful business person. >> romney's grandfather fled america from mexico in 1885 to escape religious prosecution. persecution. romney's father was born in chihuahua, mexico, in 1907. no one in the family ever got mexican scitizenship and that ws in part they were of the mormon faith. should they? because if romney's family lived in mexico for almost 30 years and his father was born there and as mike taibbi reported this week, he still has a lot of relatives there and cousins, isn't he mexican-american? he wrote the story i saw this morning. john avalon is a cnn contributor. good to have you with us. reuben, what do you think? a lot of people were quick to dismiss this. you reverse the table. somebody comes to the united states, would seem to be mexican-american. >> when i was working with my editor, we said what kind of headline could we put on this to make erin burnett sit up and take notice? i'm glad it worked out. this was aly so. bill richardson, who ran for president, he was talked about as vying to become the first hispanic president. like mitt romney, has an american born parent and mexican born parent, so how is it that bill richardson is thought to be mexican, but we never make that conclusion about mitt romney? they're the same. >> it is a pretty interesting point. what do you think, as someone yourself, you describe yourself as mexican-american. what's your point of view coming from that background? >> i was born in the united states. both my parents were born in the united states and three of my four grandparents were born in the united states and texas. my fourth grandparent was in fact from chihuahua, the same part of the world where mitt romney's family comes from. that's what makes this sort of a light column. primo, cousin. we may be related. i hope you don't take offense, cousin, but i don't think you've done a very good job in the campaign in dealing with hispanics an the immigration issue in a thoughtful way. my point was whether he's born from mexican stock or not doesn't help him with latino voters because he has done such a terrible job of deal wg the immigration issue. there's no way he could do well with him come the election. >> obl, he's talked about being for e verify and things like this. will that make up for the point he does not poll well with hispanic americans? >> no. the guy's name is willard mitt romney. you don't get much less hispanic than that. a name is a name. he bears it out. what reuben's great column is making is the complexity of the relationship. they go back from centuries ago. mexican-americans who have been living there for as long as my family's been in the united states. part of the problem is that some policies have alienated the latino community. those have eroded and now, the republican party faces a serious deficit and when candidates pander to the other reaches of their party, it doesn't help. >> reuben, is there anything mitt romney can do to turn this into something? given he may have a legitimate point, is there anything he can do politically at this point? >> several things. one is stop confusing his outreach efforts in florida and florida's important. but stop confusinging your outreesh efforts with hispanics in florida and the southwest. it's a whole different thing. that's what you have with these, this dynamic and i see oftentimes that mitt romney seems to think they're interchangeable and that his success in florida will help him in the southwest. he has to stop going after these immigrants personally by portraying them as takers and be honest about the fact they come here because people put them to work and offer them jobs. >> that touches on marco rubio being a magic quotient, but you have other ideas? >> one alternative is to throw a hail mary pass to tv.p. pick. they elected two -- so, the good new ss that the party is evolving, at least in some of the candidates putting forward. that can help heal the distrust, but it's got a lot of work to do. >> maybe thanks to both of you, maybe mitt romney can do a little bit of that if he starts tweeting. you never know. tonight, a huge development in a story we've been on which is the mysterious assassinations of iran's top nuclear scientists. yesterday, a car bomb killed a supervisor and we've been talking about who's behind the murders. today, leon panetta went on the record with a denial and something else that has a lot of people wondering. >> we were not involved in any way, in any way, with regards to the assassination that took place there. i'm not sure who was involved. we have some ideas, but we don't know exactly, but i can tell you one thing. the united states was not involved. >> leaving us guessing, but iran put the blame on america and israel. an israeli general responded to the claim saying he has no idea who responded to scientist, while saying he isn't shedding any tears over his death. in october, texas representative lamar smith introduced a bill in the house called the stop online piracy act. it's surprisingly bipartisan. of the current 32 cosponsors, the breakdown is 50-50 with both republicans like peter king and marcia blackburn and dems like debbie wasserman schultz getting behind it. the bill is designed to keep websites from posting material illegally and would aloe the government to shut down websites. if passed, it could affect sites like amazon, youtube and ebay. that brings us to tonight's number. 12. the number of hours the website red it will be you have line to protest. it announced it will black out 12 hours on wednesday starting at 8:00 a.m. and be replaced with a simple message. link to resources to learn more and red it is not alone. google, facebook and aol are angry. all have gone to capitol hill because ta they're mad and you've got michele bachmann on board. ron paul, nancy pelosi -- ron paul and nancy pelosi are on the same side of an issue? i hope a super pack is watching. she tweeted, need to find a solution better than sopa. wikipedia cofounder says he's behind the efforts and is going to black out, too. on his last day in office, haley barbour granted clemency to more than 200 drug dealers, rapists and murdereresmurderers. why? and the run of dsk. you will not believe the shocking defense his lawyers have put up. the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams. start the second half of our show with stories we care about where we focus on reporting, do the work and find the out front five and first, the president asked congress this afternoon to increase the debt ceiling by $1.2 trillion. it's not a surprise, but it makes