Provocative thought. Has the president just handed the special counsel a gift in his prepared answers . Cnn has exclusively learned he told the special counsel, in writing, that he didnt know about the trump tower meeting in advance. And that he wasnt tipped off by roger stone about the pending wikileaks email dump. Those are two biggies. However, just as interesting is how the president , who once bragged about wanting to be face to face, under oath, how that same man hedged his answers using legalese like, to the best of his recollection. I thought trump had a great memory. Remember this . One of the great memories of all time. Except when it can get him in trouble. Combine that with his riff today that a pardon for manafort is possible. Now you have some eyebrow raising developments. Lets bring in cuomos court. In session with kerry cordero. Lets start with the pardon. The basic proposition, the idea is the president can pardon whomever he wants, whenever he wants, unchecked. True or false . True, according to traditional legal thought, which is that the pardon power is an absolute executive authority. But the difference here is that that is assuming that the president is lawfully constitutionally, and for official purposes, government purposes, using that strong unequivocal executive power. Whats happening here, if hes considering pardoning Paul Manafort is that he would be using his official executive power in order to effect his own personal legal jeopardy. Thats a whole different thing than using what we traditionally think of as pardon power. So there are two questions. Two checks, lets say, jim, on the absolute power theory of this. One is are you selfpardoning which can be done directly or indirectly. Kerry is pointing to an indirect one. You guys think i did something wrong . I pardon myself. Cant do t. The indirect way kerry is talking about is, im going to pardon manafort who could get me in trouble with the prosecutors and thats saving myself. The second way is if its about a bribe or quid pro quo. Do you think theres a chance that a pardon of Paul Manafort falls into one of those categories . I just dont see it. And heres the reason why. The prosecutors have found Paul Manafort not to be credible. They wanted to use Paul Manafort to have him cooperate with their investigation, and now they found him to not be credible and now they dont want any parts of that any more. Thats what that filing was about the other day, and were going to see more details unfold associated to that. At the sentencing. Lets not forget, chris, that Paul Manafort has been charged with nothing relative to his conduct during the campaign, nor has he been charged with conspiracy associated with the same. Right. So to say that the president , even if he starts, you know, rattling the saber as it relates to pardons in Paul Manafort, is somehow doing it inappropriately, theres no nexus at this point as it relates to the campaign. So i dont see it. Well, is that the end of the analysis, kerry, whether or not its connected to the campaign . Or is it about anything where they find out there was a coordinated story between manafort and the president and it was a lie, and the president exercised that mendacity the same way manafort has . First, Paul Manafort was the chairman of the campaign. Yes, he was. You cant make an argument it wasnt connected to the campaign. Second of all, he was involved in the trump tower meeting in the summer of 2016. He has been involved in Communications Related to Many Campaign matters, including probably finance matters and organizational matters and all the things related to the campaign, and he is a central player in the russia influence investigation being conducted by the special counsel. So, he is certainly a player. He certainly was in touch with the president. And if the president were to use his Pardon Authority, it could be, in part, if he thinks that manafort is going to provide some kind of information. Hes already provided probably some information. He was cooperating for some period of time. It also, though, could be the way that weve seen the president use the pardon power in other circumstances, which is simply to reward somebody that he thinks has been treated unfairly. Right. And is sort of just going against the stream of prosecution and against law enforcement. And thats how hes used the pardon power already when he pardoned arpaio, sheriff arpaio theres nothing wrong with that. Theres nothing illegal about it. Wrong is for the an assessment for the voters to make. Im doing it very basically. Im not big brain like you guys. Im keeping it very simple here. You want to pardon somebody thats fine. Its a political judgment. Well take it up at the polls when we vote for or against you. However, however, if you put out there that you want to maybe pardon Paul Manafort, what i dont get, jim, is why some smart guy like you around the president doesnt say to him, dont say that. Dont say its a possibility. Dont leave it hanging out there. It looks bad, and ill tell you why. When president nixon was in there, his guys said to him, dont say you may pardon any of these guys who are being prosecuted because you could be impeached for that because it looks like youre obstructing justice. Dont say it. Why dont you tell him that . He has a lot ofs lawyers. Im not his lawyer at this point. No, i dont think it is strategically a good move to start rattling the saber when it comes to pardons. At a minimum. Its strategically not a good move. But the fact that Paul Manafort was a player in all this, as you said earlier, i say, who cares . I mean, it matters only you say who cares, why is he saying he might pardon him . We need to talk about it. Thats why. Maybe he feels maybe he feels that Paul Manafort has been wronged. I dont know why the president said what he said. Yes, you do. I dont necessarily agree with what he said. Thats your opinion. You know why he said it. He said the same thing about stone and the same thing about corsi, and that is, kerry, that he believes these guys are being forced to lie, which is the typical thing we usually hear from a mob boss when their guys are being put up there that youve dealt with on your time on the job. Oh, theyre forcing my guys to lie. Its all a perjury trap. We know theres a disagreement, though. He uses Pardon Authority between the prosecution and the defense as it relates to Paul Manafort and what he said and what is the truth. He obviously believes theyre trying to get him to Say Something that he doesnt believe to be true. Thats what his lawyers thats what the corsi angle is. Hold on, let me get kerry in on this. Its important to note that the president s use of the Pardon Authority throughout his presidency is not traditionally and historically how the Pardon Authority has been used. True. So he has broken through the way it has been used for 200 years. He has gone back by bypassing the Pardon Office and the attorney generals office. He has gone back to 19th century practice by making the decisions directly without the recommendation of the Pardon Authority. Right. And so he hasnt expressed a way to use it in a way that breaks all modern precedent. But, look, i get it. But thats about tradition and the authority lies with the president , not with the department of justice. Right. How you exercise that thats his right, the process is his right. He can determine what that process is. The attorney general doesnt make it and the Pardon Office doesnt. The president does. I hear you. Its not completely absolute. You cant do it in violation of the constitution. You cant selfpardon and you cant do it as a quid pro quo. Well see if the pardons check those boxes. One other thing before i let you go. As we know here and anyone watching this should know, mueller asked the questions he did to thement because he had information on each of the queries beforehand. And when he asked him, did you get told by roger stone about the wikileaks coming . We now know, cnn reports, the president said no. Did you know about the 2016 meeting in trump tower . We now know, cnn reporting, the president said no. Dont you think that those are dangerous answers . Sure, he qualified it, mr. Great memory, with the best of my recollection. But dont you think they have people telling them, jim, that he was told about the wikileaks dump, that he was told about the 2016 meeting . I dont know that people are telling mueller that. Why would he ask it . Why would he ask it . You dont know that either. I do, by the way. What i know and what i dont isnt whats relevant. Why would they ask it that way if they dont have any source on it . Because they want to know the president s answer to that question. They want to know what he knew and when he knew it and nail it down. Theyve asked the question. Hes answered it. We have to wait for the report. Kerry, jim, thank you very much. Provocative discussion. Its good for us right at the top of the show. Appreciate it. Thats a big deal whats happening there. As we get more facts, as you heard jim schultz say, were going to know soon because when the sentencing comes up for manafort youre going to hear what the government says he hasnt been honest about. Its time to deal with this reality. Unicef and other organizations say whats happening right now a mile from the u. S. Border is a humanitarian crisis. When the president was asked about it, he said that the images that youre seeing right now, these images, theyre a win for his party. Were going to shine the light next. 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Show more of you. Introducing e trade personalized investments professionally managed portfolios customized to help meet your financial goals. Youll know what youre invested in and how its performing. So you can spend more Time Floating about on your inflatable swan. [ding] hi susan hs honey . I respect that. But that cough looks pretty bad. Try this new robitussin honey. The real honey you love. Plus the powerful cough relief you need. Mind if i root through your trash . New robitussin honey. Because its never just a cough. It turns out it is an invasion. Sickness, hunger, desperation those maldifficulties and more are invading the lives of men, women and children at the border. There are more than 6000 people in tijuana right now. A crimeinfested poverty stricken place to begin with. More people, and deteriorating conditions, are a powder keg. This is the scene at a Sports Complex in tijuana, now a makeshift shelter for thousands of migrants waiting to seek asylum in the United States. The shelter is already filled three times above its capacity. And i can report that sources on the ground say another 1,000 migrants are moving in from neighboring mexicali. Tents are spilling outside the facilitys gates, exposed to the elements. Rain is coming in. Its going to pool. Its going to fester. All of this a stones throw from where u. S. Border agents fired teargas at the border. San diego within view, but all but unreachable for these people now. Many of them have traveled thousands of miles across central america. One migrant reported, quote, there are Sick Children here and were cold and hungry. The whole world is watching whats happening here. This is whats happening. Families forced to wait and in in line for hours for food examine hygiene supplies. Heres a glimpse of those in the crowd. This is a mother from honduras. Shes holding her one month old daughter. That baby was born traveling in the caravan. Infants, children, they play at the ports. Look at this. What an arresting image this is. These kids, leaning up against the shields, that this is what is going to be burned into their brains about this experience. Elmo in one hand, reaching out to these officers with the other. A mother and child living in a tent and mats. For how long, maybe months . Can they do it, can they make it, can they survive . Mexico is providing aid. Even tijuanas mayor said, its not enough. Hes called on the u. N. For help. Right now, border officials are processing around 100 cases a day from tijuana, meaning for the thousands just arriving and those already there, its going to be weeks, many weeks before they have a chance to even be heard. The backlog, by the way, the pace is worsened by a decision by this administration. It has a new practice limiting the number of Asylum Seekers allowed to enter the u. S. Each day. Its a policy that it calls metering. But what its really doing, its pressuring. Its seeing how long will they stay . How much do they want it . Lets make it as hard as we can. The same philosophy that led to the separation of those kids the last time were at a flash point like this. The president is exacerbating these conditions because time is an enemy here, and he knows it. The white house and many in the gop blame parents for putting their kids in harms way. Hey, you dont want to get teargassed, dont bring them. These mothers say they are here to escape harm. That as bad as this is, that there is still hope here, no matter how slim. The most disturbing image for now, however, may not be anything that youre seeing here. This is bad. But hearing the american president say that all this, all thats happening this is a win for him and his party. There is no invasion, okay. Heres a little fact for some context. A new pew Study Concludes the overall number of undocumented immigrants in the u. S. Is decreasing, has been for years. But these masses we see in tijuana, amassing of caravans is new. It has to be dealt with. So, no invasion, but there is evasion by our president and our other elected leaders who are not dealing with what gets worse by the day. It is hard to believe how anyone, let alone a president , can look at whats happening and see political advantage. Lets debate the notion and the bigger question of what should we do. Next. Can you feel it can you feel it can you feel it amazon has everything you need for your holiday get together. With low prices and Free Shipping on millions of items, for everything you need this holiday, visit amazon. Xfinity mobile is a designed to save you money. Even when youve got serious binging to do. Wherever your phone takes you, your wireless bill is about to cost a whole lot less. Use less data with a network that automatically connects you to the most wifi hotspots in millions of places and the best 4g lte everywhere else. Saving you hundreds of dollars a year. And ask how you get Xfinity Mobile included with your internet. Plus, get 200 back when you when you buy a new smartphone. Xfinity mobile. Its simple. Easy. Awesome. Click, call or visit a store today. When President Trump stirred up the caravan chaos and called it an invasion to stir up his base for the mid materials which didnt work, there was a ton of media coverage. Now that we have an actual problem, theres less coverage and that is a mistake. The situation as described by International Relief organizations as a humanitarian crisis and the worst, they say, is yet to come. More migrants, more suffering, more desperation, more problems. What do we do . What should we do . And how can any of this be seen as a win by the president . Lets ask our great debaters. Anna navarro and steve cortez. Anna, when you look at that situation, what do you see . You know, it reminds me of things ive seen in the past, being from florida. It reminds me of the muriel exodus, muriel boat lift. Castro opened up the floodgates in a matter of months. And what started with a few people turned into a massive exodus. It reminds me of seeing desperate haitians and desperate cubans. They risk their lives to bring their children to safety and to freedom. It reminds me of my own story. Im a lucky one. My parents were the type of people that got u. S. Visas and could travel on planes. But they did and would have done anything to save me from growing up in communism and violence like so many other parents have done. Unless, unless youre the child of somebody that came here on an investor visa, unless youre the child of somebody who is a native american, the likelihood is your ancestors came here for precisely the same reason these people are coming here, to look for a better life. So, i see a very complex problem, chris, because i realize that it can turn into something that will be out of control. You let them in, there will be more. But i also know we are an empathetic country and i think we need to figure out some sort of comprehensive strategic solution that attacks the roots of the problem in these countries and also deals with the immediate issue at hand. The missed opportunity here, steve, is how you dont let them in. The way in which you conduct policy, even if its a policy of exclusion. And thats what i wasnt surprised by this, by the way. But it is unfortunate that the president can look at scenes of distress and somehow say, see, i told you. I told you what they were like. Look at them. Its a win for me and my party. This is bad for democrats. How can you process Something L