Ami or at his direction. This is not a positive development by any stretch of the imagination for donald trump. Its obvious to me that these documents that are being referenced would already be in the hands of government prosecutors and investigators, and, again you think only a matter of time. Theres a concern that, well, theyre been moved and they may never be heard from or seen again. You think they already have . Well, i think they absolutely already have them unless they were destroyed before mr. Pecker was granted immunity but when the government grants immunity to someone, thats a big deal. The government just Doesnt Hand Out immunity that easily and they would have required any such documents at that time to be turned over. So, i want to play something for you, this is what President Trump told fox news about the crimes Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to. Listen to this, michael. What he did and they werent taken out of Campaign Finance. Thats a big thing. Thats a much bigger thing. Did they come out of the campaign . They didnt come out of the campaign. They came from me. I tweeted about it. I dont know if you know, i tweeted about the payments. But they didnt come out of campaign. Almost everybody that runs for office has Campaign Violations but what Michael Cohen pled to werent Even Campaign related. They werent crimes. All right. So sound like hes kind of admitting the cheating there, but, i mean, he says there werent even crimes. Whats your response . He doesnt know what hes talking about. Like almost Everything Else that comes out of his mouth. Hes flatout wrong. The fact of the matter is you cannot have the Trump Organization entering into effectively a conspiracy with Michael Cohen, which also involved donald trump, to funnel this money in such a way where it hid from the American Public as to where it went and what it was for. The Trump Organization could not make this payment or reimburse
Michael Cohen for this payment without disclosing it. So thats first of all. Second of all, for them to pay over 400,000 to Michael Cohen for 130,000 payment, it seems very likely to me that the Trump Organization probably deducted that on their tax returns as a legal expense, which opens up an additional can of worms and problems for the Trump Organization. But clearly, the president has no clue as to what the law or regulations around Campaign Finance are. I want to talk to you about the New York Times reporting, i think this is very important, and the New York Times is reporting that the manhattan d. A. s office is considering criminal charges against the Trump Organization. In connection with the cohen case and heres what theyre saying. Theyre saying two officials are also wrapped up in this Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels. A State Investigation would center on how the Trump Organization accounted for its reimbursement to Michael Cohen for 100,000 that he paid to stormy which you were alluding
to about the taxes, right . So whats your reaction to this news . Well, again, i mean, heres whats going to happen. And its no different than any other whitecollar case. So the rats have already started leaving the ship. We know that. And this is only going to accelerate. The other individuals that touched these payments that face potential criminal liability, they, too, are going to be looking for immunity. They, do, atoo, are going to be looking for deals and going to continue to roll over on donald trump. This situation is going to get a lot, lot worse for the president and may never get better. I dont think its ever going to get better. The president is in a lot of trouble. And were going to seek a De Deposition of him as quickly as possible. We want to get his answer s undr oath and this rate, don, it would not surprise me if we took the Fifth Amendment in a deposition by me. Imagine that. I think it would be the first time in history that a sitting president will have pled the
as it relates to the depositions, we filed a motion and weve laid out our rationale. I think were even on better footing now in light of Michael Cohens admissions as to why were seeking depositions first of Michael Cohen, and donald trump. I mean, these issues are at the center of our case. What the president knew, what the communications were between him and Michael Cohen, what they did to cover up the existence of the nda and the payment. The flow of the money. Theres a host of questions and issues that go to the heart of our case. And im highly confident that were going to get a deposition of Michael Cohen. I think thats almost a certainty. 100 . I also believe theres a significant likelihood were going to follow that up with a deposition of the president. Michael avenatti, appreciate your time. Thank you. Thanks. When we come back, another big legal issue for the president , one that also involves three of his children. If you feel like you spend too much time in the bathroom
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tonight for President Trump and the Trump Organization. Lets discuss now. Cnn legal analyst renado mare marinatti. And areva martin. Author of make it rain. Good evening to both of you. Hey, don. I want to start with the news about the New York Times, the manhattan d. A. Office is consider filing charges against the Trump Administration and officials in connection with cohens Hush Money Payments to Zmd Superdelegat Stormy Daniels. How the company accounted for the reimbursement to mr. Cohen for the actress. How significant is this . State crimes cannot be pardoned by the president only the new york governor. I dont think andrew cuomo is going to pardon trumps friends. Very csignificant. Theyre lowerlevel crimes. One step above a misdemeanor but it gives they have the power to subpoena documents, power to
subpoena witnesses so we could see some very interesting testimony and documents coming out and it also just means that it this whole Illeglegal Mes become harder for trump to control. Another power center he has no control over and cant do anything about. Talking state charges, president does have pardon power. Could that have any impact on what the Trump Organization officials tell investigators, what they say to him . Oh, absolutely, don. We should expect that the Trump Organization, theyve got to answer to how is it that these Phony Invoices that we now learned about that Michael Cohen talked about, when he stepped into that federal court on tuesday, these Phony Invoices that he sent to the Trump Organization which we now know were actually the way that he was being reimbursed for that 130,000 payment. He didnt just get repaid the 130,000. He got paid over 400,000 because trump in their effort to hide this, you know, settlement
to Stormy Daniels actually paid him the taxes that he would have had to pay on 130,000 plus a bonus. The 130,000 becomes 420,000 via Phony Invoices. I have to tell you, don, you need more than a law degree to keep up with the legal woes and troubles of donald trump. Im a harvard trained lawyer and think im pretty smart. Im going to let you finish. I was justsying here thinking, like, i feel like the days when i would report on the mafia, trying to keep all of this straight. The lange wanl thats surrounding it, which court it goes to, which person is going to flip, whos going to become, you know, flip for the prosecution. Defense. On and on. Its like am i talking about the president of the United States, the beperson who promised to hi all the best people. The people who are leading this country. Go on. I digress. Sorry. No, im just my sentiments exactly. This Criminal Enterprise is so massive and every day, theres a
new inquiry thats open either by State Prosecutors or federal prosecutors. So were talking about the Trump Organization. But we shouldnt leave out that the Trump Foundation, theres also an investigation into how the Trump Foundation has been run by donald trump in an actual lawsuit against donald trump. The foundation. And his three children. Allegations are that he used that as private piggybank and money paid to the 5013c donations made to this Nonprofit Organization were useded to pay settlements against trump golf courses and other private businesses. And, you know, purchases of a 10,000 painting thats hanging in a trump, you know, golf, you know, organization. So the laundry list of, you know, Criminal Activity by trump, his organizations, his charity, and now allegations against his children. The list just continues to grow each and every day. You know, renato, the state
tax department subpoenaed cohen. In announcing the investigation, the new york a. G. s complaint said this, okay . The foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments to nonforprofits for, from mr. Trump and entities controlled. He controlled. The president and his three oldest children are all named in this suit. What information do you think cohen could provide here . I mean, this is getting Close To Home. Really Close To Home for this president. For sure. Cohen seems very eager to cooperate and provide information against donald trump. You know, he went out of his way at that plea hearing to say that the president directed him to commit a crime. He did not have to do that. And since then, his lawyers have been on tv saying heres all thing the things we can tell robert mueller. I think hes going to go out of his way to be cooperative. Some of the things he can talk about what, he heard donald
trump say about some of these charitable payments and how he used how he wanted that money used. He can show Donald Trumps knowledge because despite the president Talking To Fox News and saying he didnt really spend much time with Michael Cohen, thats just thats a lie. He actually was with Michael Cohen every day. Is what Maggie Haberman of the New York Times reported. And Above And Beyond that, he also can help them understand the way the Trump Organization worked. Where the books and records are. Who are the right people to i a subpoena. He can be a guide post to a proce prosecutor looking at a case. Areva, this one is involving, you know information about this, one of trumps Sexual Harassment accusers. According to court documents, zervos wants evidence from other women who have reported similar account of sexual misconduct. She says that trump made his defamatory statements with common law malice. How do you see this case playing out . This is a very significant case, don, because a judge has already ruled this case can go forward. We should step back and remember that donald trump and his team tried to get this case dismissed. They argued that a sitting president shouldnt be bothered with a civil lawsuit and this case should be stayed for all purposes until he was out of office but a State Court Judge in new york rejected that argument and said, no, this case can move forward and discovery can actually commence in this case, so not only sould we expect to see Summer Zervos and her attorney, gloria allred, seek to get information from other women who said they were actually involved in Sexual Affairs with donald trump but should see, again, like Michael Avenatti wants to oppose donald trump, we should expect Summer Zervos and her legal team are going to want to depose donald trump since theyre alleging he defamed her when he called her a
liar when she made allegations that she groped her and kissed her. So the president , again, i just cant stress enough the kind of legal jeopardy that he is in. This is Criminal Enterprise that hes running. You know, he and his people in his orbit seem to think they are above the law, they dont have to play by the same set of rules that you and i and the rest of the American People have to play by and i think people even in his orbit are starting to realize he is so toxic that this is the time now to cut bait with him, come forward and tell what they know and i think were going to see more and more people coming forward, telling their stories, of kind of sordid and Criminal Activity that donald trump has been involved in. Arevea, renato, thank you, i appreciate your time. When we come back, the new cover of Time Magazine in deep. I wonder what the president who has bragged that he has the alltime record of Time Magazine covers, i wonder what he thinks about this one . Now tmobile has unlimited for the rest of us. Unlimited for you. For them. For all. Get unlimited for as low at 30 bucks per line for four lines at tmobile. As king midas, here at midas, you will too. And your oil change comes with a Tire Rotation as well. Ooo thats good i could put that on an airplane banner. Hmm. Maybe. Nice work. Was that. . Yeah, king midas. Yeah. At midas, were always a touch better. Which is why our 19. 99 oil change also includes a Tire Rotation. Book your appointment now at midas. Com
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now finds himself in. Including our Breaking News tonight on possible criminal charges against the Trump Organization. Joining me now is brian bennett, senior White House Correspondent for Time Magazine and cnn contributor michael dantonio, author of the truth about trump. Good evening to both of you. Michael, im going to start with you because before we get to brians new article for Time Magazine, i need to get your reaction to the New York Times, their reporting tonight, the manhattan d. A. s office considering pursuing criminal charges against the Trump Organization. This is a significant development. Whats your reaction . Well, it really is a significant development, and i think it we should remember that this is an organization that has 500 different entities and throughout his life, businessman donald trump, before he was president , really specialized in clever engineering. Clever financial dealings in order to fund these enterprises,
shift profit around, and now for the first time, its all potentially going to be opened up for examination. This is why he didnt release his tax returns. He never wanted people to actually have access to the numbers and we may soon get access to the numbers. Interesting. So how will the president react . I mean, this is now the Family Business. Remember, he talked about that red line, michael. Well, he talked about the red line. He also presented those piles of manila folders that we all suspected were full of blank paper. And this is really his nightmare. You know, heres operated as a Family Business for all these years to avoid scrutiny. I think he wanted to give this whole enterprise off to his children and his children spoke to me about how they would run it as a normal business, and not be so flagrant in their
publicity seeking, they may not get the chance. Brian, i want to bring you in now. I want it read a portion of the new cover story, new cover story for Time Magazine. You said the Courtroom Drama brought all the president s legal and political problems together in a single supernova. It highlighted trumps sor rid history with women. H his willingness to blur the lines between business and politics and growing fallout from the Investigation Led by special counsel robert mueller. Worse, the explosion came minutes after trumps onetime Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort was convicted on eight counts of tax evasion and bank fraud in a case prosecuted by muellers deputies. And if followed, revolutions that White House Counsel Don Mcgahn has cooperated extensively with muellers probe, sitting for more than 30 hours of detailed and candid interviews. You say things can get worse, much worse, for the president , legally, politically, or both, what are you saying . This is just the beginning. I mean, yowere going to see ov the next few months even more
revelations come out. Michael cohen on december 12th, h he faces a Sentencing Hearing. That means over the next few months every prosecutor who has any case that Michael Cohen may know something about will be reaching out to Michael Cohen and saying how can you help us . Well write you a letter for your Sentencing Hearing so it can go before the judge and maybe the judge will take that into consideration and reduce your sentence. So that is going to play out and i wouldnt be surprised if the manhattan d. A. s Office Contacts Michael Cohen and says, hey, what can you do to help us better understand the Trump Organization . And we will write a favorable letter to the judge. Paul manafort, hes going into a second trial in september. And hes going to feel even more pressure to cooperate with prosecutors which he hasnt done so far. Listen, i almost interrupted you there because i want to show the cover while youre talking. Heres a cover of the issue. And this is the animated version of it. Do you think trump keeping his head above water is, do you think thats whats happening in real life . I think, yes, i think hes hes just barely keeping his head above water right now. Hes trying to wrap his head around whats happening and fight back even harder as weve seen over the last couple of days. And this was this cover was the third in a series. There was a cover in february that showed trump at the Resolute Desk with the wind blowing through and him saying nothing to see here. Then the scandals mounted and in april, the week that Michael Cohens office was raided which really upset donald trump because he knows how much Michael Cohen knows about his personal dealings, then we decided to show on the cover the water rising. And this week, it seems like the waters have broken through, and trump really finds himself in
deep, deep trouble and were going to have to see what the ramifications are and how they play out over the next several months. Michael dantonio, trump has always been obsessed with media coverage, particularly Time Magazine for years. This is the day after the inauguration. Watch this. So a reporter for Time Magazine, and i have been on their cover, like, 14 or 15 times. I think we have the alltime record in the history of Time Magazine. So why is the cover of Time Magazine so important to him and how do you think hes going to react to this one . Well, i think the cover this week is really precisely on point. He must feel like hes drowning. These problems are rising around him. Michael cohen knows more about Donald Trumps business i think than donald trump even knows. So this is a very appropriate image for what he must be experiencing. Hes obsessed with magazine covers in the same way that hes
obsessed with all of media attention. His reference points are a little bit dated. You know, no knock on Time Magazine but the world has moved on to vast numbers of Media Outlets in addition to Time Magazine but its precious, still precious real estate and the president as we all know believes in the best locations and the Time Magazine cover i think is one of the best locations in journalistic real estate. Go on. I was going to ask you, brian, when you look back on this week, do you think were going to see this is a Tipping Point for the Trump Administration . This is one thing we try to do at Time Magazine is mark historic moments and illustrate that and write about them and talk about it and this is definitely an important Inflection Point in this story. And thats why we put that image on the cover. I think certainly were going to be looking back at this week as a real significant week in a series of significant weeks in
this presidency. When i was in Singapore Covering The Trump kim summit, i asked the president a question and the first thing he asked me was am i going to be on the cover this week . It turned out he was on the cover that week standing next to kim jongun but he reads Time Magazine, he grew up with it, just like he reads the New York Times because he grew up with it. Its something that he turns to every week. And the fact is we look back at the covers that president s have been on and Richard Nixon still has the record for the most Time Magazine covers. Donald trump hasnt caught up with him yet. Dont tell him that. Well i think one reason i think youre right, hes obsessed with iconic brands, obsessed with the brand. He grew up watching cnn. Right . Watched cnn for a long time. Respects it, actually. Same thing he has with Time Magazine, the New York Times and also the new york post. Those are entities that he really respects and he finds
them iconic and thats why he gets so upset when everything in those Different Companies or different organizations when its not glowing for them. Goen on, michael dantonio. You know, if Time Magazine is one example of a media outlet, he cant control, so he used to control what was on the cover of the National Enquirer and as a result, i think he didnt respect them at all. And this relationship he had with david pecker was certainly mutual exploitation and it wasnt about journalism or respect. Time magazine, cnn, he cant push either one of those institutions around and as a result, he respects them. Yeah. Thank you, both. Appreciate your time. When we come back, a dog whistle coming straight from fox news to the president s twitter. Were going to tell you what he tweeted and why its wrong and how its part of a disturbing pattern of distracting and deflecting from headlines he
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proportionate response, that is fine to have that belief. Nfl players driven to their knees by what lincoln calls the overwhelming conviction they have nowhere else to go, you shoeb twe should be tweeting about their pain. We come to this fundamental disconnect where there is a clear angle where individuals are responding to things that may not be real and i think that, you know, almost what happened in the earlier interview with chris cuomo, people are living in two all e alternate universes half the time. Yeah. The president has an entire Intelligence Agency at his disposal that is dedicated to providing h him with the best intelligence possible about every Foreign Policy issue. Why not check with them before tweeting out these incorrect facts and from and White Nationalist Conspiracy Theories . Because he was told by a fox news host to jump and he said how high . And he tweeted exactly what they wanted. It was almost simultaneous where this host said what is the
president going to do about it . And he immediately tweeted that hes going to have pompeo look into it. Look, this Isnt The First Time that he has done this. Where he takes other news hosts at their word instead of checking with his authorities but this is an issue that is big with White Nationalist groups and this is something that he heard that was of interest to the other network and he acted on it. That being said, the information should have been corroborated first. There is a situation where some of the land has been expr expropriated but nod tot large should be correct before you jump the gun and order your officials to be youre shaking your head. The African National congress has said theyre willing to go forward with unoccupied land that wont be paid for. Whether thats a good idea or not is i think not the question
for tonight. But one of the things i think its also at a rate that is seen as fair to whoever it is. Right. Look, south africa is dealing with brutal inequities from apartheid that have not really been reconciled with even decades afterwards. I think whats important, though, in looking at Donald Trumps tweet is remembering this. The Republican Party was basically proapartheid in the 1980s. Donald trump didnt take this from nowhere. Ronald reagan called Nelson Mandela terrorist, put him on the terrorist watch list. Dick cheney voted against a Resolution Calling for releasing him from prison. Down the line, william f. Buckley, jerry fallwell, pat robertson, basically said we prefer the Apartheid Government to mandela and the African National congress. Trump didnt come out with this from nowhere. This was a longstanding position of the american right and the Republican Party going back to the time that america was supposedly great back before barack obama. Thats where trump gets this from. But peter, whenever the president is backed into a
corner, he picks up some sort of racist thing. He turns to race, right . Tweeting out Something Like this, something racially charged he knows his base will eat up. Again, which is inaccurate. Right. And the larger story is the United States the Tweet Meaning the United States is undergoing a massive demographic shift. Right . And so rather than actually helping people to figure out how we use that to strengthen the country, people like hosts on other networks and donald trump continually flame the notion that because white people are losing their position, potentially, a little bit, at the top of the power structure, it means theyre at risk of genocide. Thats a recipe for tremendous, tremendous problems in this country. Yeah. Why Trump Supporters believe he is not corrupt, its in the atlantic, its peters piece well talk about. Other people are corrupt but hes not corrupt. Well talk about that right after the break. daniel jacob for every hour that youre idling in your car,
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back know with joseph, Peter Beinart and alice stewart. The latest piece, titled why Trump Supporters believe he is not corrupt. You cover everything from Mollie Tibbetts to Michael Cohen. Why do you believe Trump Supporters have outrage over tibbetts death but not about Michael Cohens confession and how it involved this president . My argument is that i think what really bothers Trump Supporters is not the corruption of law, but the corruption of the traditional hierarchies that existed in america. White over black, male over female, et cetera. And so trump is not threatening those hierarchies. He may be violating the law but not threatening. Hes reaffirming the old hierarchies. The case of Mollie Tibbetts, the idea, this is a country very, very deep in our history. The notion that white women should be protected from nonwhite men is a very, very old, very deep idea in america. And so when you when you suggest the idea that a latino man has threatened a white woman, you were talking about a threat to the traditional order. The traditional hierarchy and that is what really, really frightens people. Thats the corruption that they are afraid of. Not the corruption of law. So, alice, ultimately do the president s most ar dent supporters im going to let you get in here, do they see wrongdoing by people close to the president . Michael cohen, Paul Manafort . Reflecting badly in him or they just dont care . 1. Right now, his base doesnt really care. Peter makes a great point in his piece where he talks about as he indicated corruption is now being defined against purity. The erosion of corruption of purity and not the law. Because what trump is sayi inind
the administration is saying, well, he did nothing wrong. He hasnt bebeen charge ehasnt crime. Its wrong to cheat on your wife, wrong to pay off porn stars and wrong to tell the American People you didnt know about it and sort of knew about it and knew about it later. In my view, thats wrong plain and simple. If more comes out from cohen and pecker which i believe i had a lot of dealings with david pecker, i expect that vault to be overflowing with many stories to come. I think the base will their eyes will open up. More importantly for the midterm elections, this will energize democrats to get out and vote. So they can they can speak out if republicans are going to close their eyes. Joseph, i want to bring you in. During the president ial campaign, the chant was lock her up, lock her up, referring to Hillary Clinton. My were they so concerned with all of the alleged wrongdoings of the clintons which many of them have been litigated and talked about forever . And they dont acknowledge, proven facts about president
trump and his wrongdoing and all of the investigations and not paying people and affairs that have been proven. I think we have a fundamental disconnect with covering Politics Today marlparticularly it relates to talking about Hillary Clinton or President Trump. The fact they are such fixed characters in american iconography. So i think when you talk about it from that standpoint, were not talking about people saying oh, theyre moved by facts. I dont think it was a move by facts lock her up chant. It was more of a thing that, you know, whether you believe the stories about vince foster, hated her hairdo back there the late 990s. Simply Couldnt Stand what issue was about her. That was moving the movement of the people more so than anything that was factual. I think when you look the aat im that standpoint. Whether you like 70s donald trump, Lifestyles Of The Rich And Famous donald trump, 880s
donald trump. My point is, lets say you put them on a scale. Of wrongdoing. Lets just say everything is wrong. Im just im just generalizing here. There is the scale, like donald trump would weigh the scale down and would be like a seesaw and Hillary Clinton would go flying off. Im just wondering, is this just pure misogyny, people wont say it . People have hated Hillary Clinton. And responded extremely viscerally negatively from the minute she arrived on the political scene in 1992, long before anyone was suggesting he was corrupt. Remember, back then it was the idea she wouldnt bake cookies she was standing by her man. Remember that . Right. She has been always as potential woman president and as a feminist a tremendous threat to the established order and coming on the heels of barack obama who represented a a tremendous threat. Profound shift. The conversation, i remember going to the 20 16 Republican Convention and looking at the paraphernalia sold outside. Im telling you it was near pornographic sexism about Hillary Clinton, one bumper sticker, one insight. How much time do we have, producer . Don we got to go . We got to go. Quickly, alice, i dwgot to go. Im over time. Go ahead. Im a little let me just say this, everyones going to blow up at this. Look, Hillary Clinton, people died in benghazi and that is a result in my view in large part based ed on inaction of Hillary Clinton. While i think lies and cheating and abuse in the Trump Administration is rampant and awful. No ones died. I know what youre saying, alice. Thats all been litigated and how many hearings there were, what, eight hearings or eight investigations, millions of dollars. Years. And there was zero conviction or there was nothing was found. So, i hear what youre saying, but, you know i mean, how Many American soldiers did we lose in iraq . I got to go. I got to get out of here. Well be right back. Im a small business, but i have. Big dreams. And big plans. So how do i make the efforts of 8 employees. Feel like 50 . How can i share new plans virtually . How can i download an efile . Virtual tours . Zipfile . Really big files . In seconds, not minutes. Just like that. Like everything. The answer is simple. Ill do what ive always done. Dream more, dream faster, and above all. Now, ill dream gig. Now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. Comcast, building americas largest gigspeed network. A book that youre ready to share with the world . Get published now, call for your free publisher kit today you said youre not like me,
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