A recap of the day's news. love trump or whether you disdain him, i think everyone can collectively agree that his relationship with the truth -- there's a major disconnect. there was one report i saw said he told 2100 lies since office. another one said 3,000. another five a day. another ten a day. if you sit down with mueller, if they don't have obstruction, we don't know whether they do. he's tweeting. his state of mind is all over the place. he could say he fired comey. if they don't have obstruction and there is no collusion conspiracy, it's conspiracy, but the fact is you can get him on perjury. so why take the chance of going sitting with mueller no matter how smooth you think you are, no matter what you think you can say when you're going to get caught in a lie because you will lie because that's what this president does, period. >> harry, so far mueller hasn't moved on this demand that he wants trump to sit down in person. this negotiation has been going on since january that we know about. at what point does mueller tire of this and just say i'm going to subpoena the president? >> exactly. i mean, and we -- it's been since january, and maybe before. i'm a little surprised. i would have thought he would have said forget it. it's been silly that team trump has been acting as if it's got the leverage here and maybe they'll decide to sit down. as you say, the law is likely to be with mueller, and he can just go to court. now it gets a little tricky if he really is inclined to wrap things up before the midterms, probably even a quick process in the courts would extend past november. but -- so, look, i agree with joey. he's a liar, but the bigger problem here, i think, really goes to the substantive exposure for obstruction and the fact that mueller would have so much information that the president just doesn't have, and at this point, though, there's also the real possibility that he filed a report with the conclusion, looks to me, as if it's obstruction of justice. we gave the president many chances to come in and try to explain. he declined then. you can certainly charge without hearing from the defendant. that's the risk if trump stays quiet. >> i want to talk about the oligarchs. the attorney for the russian oligarch and pop star son to encouraged donald trump junior to hold the meeting says that conversations about a potential interview between his clients and special counsel robert mueller are ongoing and have been for almost a year. so why are these dplaoligarchs important to the special counsel's investigation? >> they're important because we all know and understand, and i think there's agreement with the exception of perhaps the president that there was interference. i think the dispute is whether there was some kind of collusion, excuse me, conspiracy, which is an agreement to commit an illegal act. i think everyone looking at this investigation, don, is looking and eyeing whether they could connect the dots. who is they? mueller's team. in order to connect dots as it relates to russian collusion and it relates to the trump administration trying to get information and working with the russians alongside of them collectively agreeing, defining collusion you need to have some people who might be knowledge ableas so that. if you get these people from the russian community who could talk to the meeting and could talk to the connection between the campaign and members of the russian government, you can establish that nexus and connection. so that's why they're central to mueller's investigation. >> harry, an attorney appeared on cnn a short while ago. take a listen to this. >> they never spoke to the president about the meeting before or after and they never heard anything, either before or after to even suggest the president was informed the meeting was going to happen. from their perspective, he learned about it when it came out in the press. it's been misrepresented. from my client's perspective, this was to talk about the magnitsky act. >> so that contradicts what michael cohen says. is an interview how mueller finds out who is telling the truth here? >> he wants the facts, and it's everything that joey said plus two really concrete points. they're instrumental in setting up the meeting. they're the supposed -- emin is the supposed client of gold stone who reaches out and they're in the thick of it for the 2013 miss universe pageant. but mueller wants to know who is lying and who is telling the truth. it is a little strange to me that interchange from the lawyer. they don't need to cooperate. they don't need to talk to him at all, and there have been some indication that emin was actually soured on trump, but that certainly seemed like an attempt to aid the president, and it would suggest that if they do talk he'll be telling a story that would be exculpatory and maybe of don junior as well, his old buddy. these are colorful characters but mueller in any event wants to hear from them. he wants to know the truth. >> thank you, harry. harry is here all the time. joey, not so much. i'm glad wolf blitzer showed you. >> nice to be here. >> thank you. come back. when we come back, the african american pastor who met with president trump at the white house and is now facing a backlash. i'm going to talk to him next. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪ dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life. a south carolina pastor facing criticism over his visit to the white house yesterday. he says he attended the meeting to discuss prison reform. >> in a time of moral relativism and secular humanism it is refreshing to know that those of us who have committed our lives to fighting for people who cannot fight for themselves have a seat at the table to share our hearts nvm i'm grateful for you for allowing for the conversation. again, my prayers that you'll continue to have wisdom to lead this nation truly all of us are created equal. thank you for giving us an equal opportunity to fight for this nation and what it means to be an american. >> thank you. joining me now is pastor john gray from south carolina. you received some backlash. welcome. >> thank you. good evening. >> good to have you. you received some backlash. other people who were there were a bit more complimentary of the president, and got maybe in a bit more trouble than you. you were basically thanking him for the opportunity? >> yeah. but -- >> you told your congregation that you hesitated meeting with president trump. >> yes. >> why did you go? >> you want my honest answer. i believe the lord sent me. i don't represent -- and i didn't go as a partisan politician. while i respect the political process, i went because i believe that the lord wanted me in that room as a christian. the first thing is i don't get to impute my faith on anyone else. i think that is unfair. i think it's dishonorable to try to make someone see life through my lens, but i'm strong in the belief that i have a calling that's bigger than me. and walking into that room i risked everything i'd ever worked for. >> your members of the black christian community, you had to know they would be upset by you attending this. >> yeah. >> and there is a reason that you were sitting right next to the president. right? your credibility, your influence among the faith-based community. and there you are. other pastors -- i've had pastors who were on the president's board and they quit because they thought it was a photo op in one of the first meetings and didn't think he was going to do it or the administration, that it was interested in helping anyone except for getting a photo op. >> yeah. >> what do you think? did you expect the cameras to be there? >> no. when i first heard about this and was invited, i actually said i don't want to take pictures. i will go and listen and give my input, but i don't want to be photographed. and that was because i understood that certain parts of our community, the faith-based community and the african american community and rightfully so, have felt immeasurable pain. when you're dealing with an administration that at times has drawn moral equivalence to the unite the right rally, the people who organize the it and those who opposed it -- >> then why go and lend your credibility? there are other ways that you can participate that may be more influential than being seen on the same page with someone who many people -- most people of color in this country, black folks think his policies, his speech, his language, his behavior, all of that are detriment tall to african americans. you can help out in other ways other than sitting next to him and taking a picture. >> let me ask you this. you just invited me to your table. we don't know each other. we don't agree on everything, i'm sure if we had the conversation, but we're at the table for dialogue. the purpose of that conversation was to talk about prison reform. it was the expressed understanding that we were coming to see if churches could partner with the government to help lower recidivism rates and cyclical poverty based on people trying to reacclimate. that was the intention of the meeting. that's why i went. people like me and who look like me don't often get a chance coming out of prison to have a job that allows for them not to think about doing crime. the reason why this was important to me is because it affects people that do look like me. >> here's my question. i don't think you're understanding what i'm saying. you didn't have to come here. and if you didn't come here, i would respect that, and i would say that is and maybe there is a reason. we invited other people on. and this is my point. they did not think that it would be good for them to appear because they were concerned about losing something or their reputation or being called out on television or what have you. and i respect that. maybe they're correct. do you get what i'm saying? >> absolutely. let me answer that. why would i risk whatever credibility i've gained over years in ministry with a community that i've come from? why would i risk it? would it be for a photo op? i went because i believe i was sent. >> did you have to go to the white house? could you have done a conference call? could you have been on via television or camera? could you have teleconference or maybe a place other than the white house where you can discuss this? the question, the thing is that sitting there, all of these african americans sitting there, it is being seen as the president of the united states, this administration that has proposed policies that are so detrimental to african americans that they're using you as a prop and that it is a photo op and that -- >> but the photo op doesn't work. it backfires. the moment i'm on the platform, whatever they were hoping to accomplish with the intended audience backfires because they don't have credibility in that market in the first place with those people. for me the answer is simple. i went through every detail. why would i go? what could i possibly gain? which is nothing. my wife -- >> would you do it again? >> would i go back? if there were different circumstances, if i had assurances that we were going to meet about the intended conversation, yeah, i would go back. not because i agree. because this is what's important. alignment or even speaking does not mean agreement. dialogue does not mean agreement. sitting at the table doesn't mean agreement. that's important. i don't agree with many of the policies but it doesn't stop me from having conversation. >> okay. i know we've gone on long. sorry, producers. this is what you put on your instagram page. you said lord, do you want me in that room? my first mind was no. the pain of so many is too real. the hurt, the isolation, the real hate that has bubbled to the surface of the national discourse. do you think this president is responsible for hate in the nation's discourse now? >> i believe that our president has fostered a culture and climate that has allowed for what was there and has been there for years to bubble up. it has empowered people in a horrific way. absolutely. i don't think there's any question about it. and if you're looking for someone who is a fan of the administration or a boy for the administration, that not me. i am a man of god. my faith guides me. i very well may lose credibility with whoever. but the people that know my heart know this. i am determined to honor what i believe is the calling on my life. there's nothing for me to gain from being there. but i am committed to fighting for people who cannot fight for themselves. and if i began to cower to people who don't agree -- because a lot of the people who don't agree to me don't share my faith. there are times when people who have faith speak to leaders who don't subscribe or agree or even align with that. for me it wasn't about being seen. that did nothing for me. >> and let me say this to you. i spoke to someone who i really respect today, and talking about faith. look, i'm a person of faith. he said there is a reason that people would teach you about the bible, would let you congregate on the plantation but would not allow you to read. do you understand the meaning of that? >> absolutely. >> it means they believe that religion keeps people in chains and that fighting back and saying i'm not going to deal with this, turning the other cheek, because they don't want you to leave the plantation. >> well, i was never on the plantation. >> what i'm saying is because people keep overlooking so much. overlooking when it comes to women. overlooking what it gates abo s about gays or muslims. about everything. >> absolutely. >> there's so much they keep overlooking. evangelicals, all these things, affairs, adultery, all those things and -- because what? at what cost? at what price? >> i think that's the key. i wasn't on the presidential evangelical advisory board. what you said is valid. i can only speak for me. with everything that i could have lost and could still lose, i believe that my voice was necessary because i was there for people who could not fight for themselves. that was my intention in my heart. >> thank you. we've gone really long. all i'm saying is turn the other cheek is fine but sometimes you just get bruised and swollen. at some point you say enough is enough. >> thank you. >> i appreciate you joining us. while the president is distracting and deflecting with complaints about the media, his administration is chipping away at obama care and how it could affect you is next. this is the ocean. just listen. 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well, you get what you pay for. and these plans, they don't pay for much. here we go. one anl si shows that only 57% of the plans cover mental health care. 38% cover substance abuse treatment and none of them, zero%, cover maternity care. you probably won't be able to buy them if you have a preexisting condition. and if you buy this insurance and need to use it, watch out. there are limits on how much your plan will pay. some plans don't cover immunizations or even injuries from playing organized sports. there's even a plan in illinois that doesn't cover hospital stays that begin on weekends. not surprisingly doctors and advocates don't approve. according to "the los angeles times" a whopping 98 % of groups who weighed in to were critical or opposed. but the administration and a lot of insurers are eager to sell the plans. the president boasting about chipping away at obama care. >> you know how many people have come up to me and said thank you very much for getting rid of the individual mandate? sounds so nice. isn't it a beautiful term? the individual mandate is wonderful. i'm acting presidential now. the individual mandate. the individual mandate is a disaster. it sounds good. like the affordable care act was not affordable. >> so now the administration is out with trump care. will americans like what is in the fine print? let's discuss now. cnn's senior economic analyst. good evening. thank you so much. jason, what is the likelihood people will choose these plans based on cost and bay the price later when they get sick or need the coverage? >> that's the whole idea here, don. it's basically a scam. it's a piece of paper. it's not insurance coverage. folks will say, well, this i can pay for it. it costs less and then they walk around with a piece of paper that doesn't give them access to a doctor. when i was in the army we had a saying. checking box is one of the worst forms of lying. what it means is that if you pretend to solve a problem in some ways that can be worse than doing nothing. if you pretended to solve the problem, then people walk around thinking the problem is solved but it's still there. that's what the trump administration is trying to do. they want to pretend they did something -- for instance, in kansas city there's pressure on emergency services because we didn't expand medicaid. a lot of people use the emergency room and don't have health care. that's a problem. but they're pretending to solve it. in a lot of ways that checking the box is more dangerous than doing nothing. >> steven, democrats call this junk insurance. among the shortcomings, they don't cover preexisting conditions. doesn't that leave out an enormous pool of people who won't be able to get coverage? >> well, look, what you and jason have been talking about actually would apply to obama care. jason, every promise that was made under obama care has turned out to have been a lie. >> preexisting conditions? >> i'm talking about the fact that everyone would be covered. there's still 25 to 30 million people without health insurance. that's the group of people that were trying to get insurance for -- we're trying to get insurance for. why are so many people looking at the cheaper plans? because the cost of obama care plans has doubled. it's ironic this is called the affordable care act. for so many millions of americans, health care is not more affordable. you guys remember when barack obama was campaigning on obama care. remember, he said it was going to save the average family $2500 a year, and now we have a situation where for the average family the cost of health care has almost doubled in most states. what we're looking at is trying to provide -- look, we all want to provide more coverage for people. and it seems like what you all are saying is unless this is a gold-plated health plan, it would be better for -- >> i'm just reading the stats. i'm giving facts. jason is here as the democracy person. maybe the facts don't line up the way you don't want them. that doesn't mean i'm espousing or supporting anything. those are the facts. >> the reason -- >> hold on. steven, but also you spout out statistics about what's costing more, but also there are people out there and insurers and big medical companies who are refusing to join this plan because they want to keep their profits and so getting rid of the individual mandate and all those things, that is causing the markets to collapse or obama care -- >> wait a minute. let me -- >> that's a big part of it. >> the -- the obama care system was in a spiral two years before donald trump -- >> that's not true. >> yes, it was. >> i don't want to talk about the merits of the system. >> it's not affordable for people. that's why people want the lower cost plans. they can't afford obama care. >> don, i never get -- >> hold on. hold on. >> okay. go ahead. >> we get sidetracked. i want to talk about the merits of this program. by the way, all the facts show that what you said is false. that obama care wasn't a death spiral. that's a republican talking point. >> the costs have doubled. that's true. >> go on, jason. >> let's talk about this policy. >> let's talk about this health care, don. but if we're going to do that and if stephen is going to say a bunch of stuff that's not true and predend the problems -- pretend the problems weren't caused by stuff the republicans did on purpose, if we're going to do that, i would prefer that he tamand the other people are honest about what they want. they want to go back to 2009. when insurance companies were in charge and preexisting conditions were a reason not to give you health insurance. they want to go back to when you thought you were covered for something and weren't and then you got sick and got dropped. i would prefer that they make an argument for what they're for rarter than pretending if they're for something else. if we're going to have a debate, why don't they stand up and say what they're for? >> stephen, i'll give you the last word. >> unfortunately health insurance is so expensive right now. people can't afford the plans that were supposed to be more affordable. what we are trying to offer people is plans that they can afford. now, they're not going to cover for everything that obama care requires coverage for, but if -- my point is wouldn't a plan that provides you with some basic coverage be better than no health insurance at all? i guess you guys say it would be better if people don't have health insurance at all. >> okay. that's got to be it. wasn't that the whole idea of obama care. >> but it doesn't do it. people can't afford it. >> but you're not telling the viewer -- you're just selling a part of it that fits your narrative. you're not telling people why it's not affordable. that's what you're not telling. >> he thinks it's fine if people can't get health insurance because they got sick. >> i'm not saving $2500 a year on my health insurance. everybody raise your hand if you are. i don't think many people are. >> thank you. we'll be right back. noooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days... ...for a whiter smile... that will win them over. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life. with pg&e in the sierras. and i'm an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. the president's eldest son don junior is no stranger to shocking and false statements. but this one is truly stunning. as if -- i don't know. it gets worse. listen to as he compares democratic party platform to nazis. >> you see the nazi platform in the early 1930s and what was put out there. you look at it compared to the dnc platform of today, you're saying man, those things are awfully similar. >> i want to bring in our panel. he was comparing the democratic platform to the nazi platform. can i read the nazi platform? the national socialist german working party was built on the belief that aaron germans were -- jewish people were responsible for the problems facing germany and that belief spiralled into the government-run genocide against jews known as the holocaust. democracy party platform? >> the essence of naziism is dehumanization. what political party in this era is doing more dehumanization of vulnerable groups? is it the democrats comparing mexicans to insects who are infesting the country? are they involved on a large scale campaign to make people hate and associate latinos with criminals? no. it's the republican party. if you're going to make this analogy at all, the dehuman nati ization is coming from the trump administration. >> look at this moment again. >> jews will not replace it. jews will not replace us. >> so trump went onto blame both sides after the rally. how does any supporter of this president defend this propaganda? >> yeah. it's not the -- it's not what i would choose to attack the democrat platform. there's enough to attack them on without resorting to call people a nazi. of course, if i had a nickel for every time i heard someone on the american left call republicans donald trump or even the president that i work for, george w. bush a nazi, i'd be a rich man. we're all americans and we're all in this together. >> it's the president's son. this is different because it's the president's son. >> i agree. i don't like it. i don't want anybody to call people nazis. >> you're comparing an average citizen -- it's all awful, but you're comparing an average citizen without a platform that's not talked about on the news to the president's son, the sitting president's son comparing a democratic platform to naziism. that's different. that's false equivalents there. i had to tell you that. >> of course it is. >> i don't know what you want me to say. i disagree with the rhetoric. i disagreed when peter says republicans are more nazi like than democrats. i -- let tara get in here. >> look. i'm no fan of the democratic platform. i haven't been for years. it's why i'm a conservative republican. however, for the president's son to throw out that the democratic platform is similar to nazi germany is absurd. it goes to show you he doesn't really understand history. first of all, it's like projection. because if you read through the 25 point plan of the nazi party back then and the things, there's a lot in there that's awfully reminiscent to some of the things donald trump has actually advocated for. i mean, the whole idea of the tribalism and nationalism and what steve bannon and those guys were perpetuating during the election, that's a lot closer to the nazi platform than what democrats are asking for today. and the idea of the press being called the enemy of the people. it was hitler who called the press, the lying press. that's a nazi propaganda rhetoric the president is using. i'm using the example based off of what the president's own son and what the president has done. if you really want to get into let's compare things to nazi germany, there's a lot more going on with what's coming out of trump's mouth and out of his son's mouth and his supporters like what we saw than anything the democrats are proposing. i'm no fan of what the democratic platform is. >> scott and peter will respond on the other side of the break. 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