A recap of the days news. The idea that somehow this is floating out in the ether somewhere in orbit far away from the central focus of this investigation is just not true. Those lines of investigation are open. And this is a man who has shown himself willing to do some fairly dodgy work for people supported by the kremlin abroad in the ukraine. And thats one reason why hes standing in court today. And this is just the beginning and again, one of two trials. The first of two trials for Paul Manafort this summer. So this is and the first one as far as the russia investigation. Listen, theres they have to go a long way, as you said. Theres a long way to go, and april, the judges name is ts ellis. He banned any mention of President Trump, russia or collusion from the courtroom. I mean, that may be, but the trial is no doubt weighing on this white house. It is definitely weighing on this white house, don. From my sources, theyre saying
the white house is very concerned. They are trying to huddle together and figure out how to message this. If you talk about the issue of a possible pardon, they im hearing from my sources Paul Manaforts name is not even on the list and theyre not talking about it. It is so serious right now. And then ive talked to other people who former Justice Department officials from the highest heights who say this is going to be a slam dunk. This white house is very, very concerned because they feel this is a toxic issue, and what happens is that Paul Manaforts partner gates, he could really be a critical player in linking things to russia. You know, because we already hear about ukraine. They are very concerned right now. Kellyanne conway was on fox news. Heres what she said about the trial. This trial obviously centers on matters that have nothing to do with the campaign. I think even many manafort as i read it had asked there be no mention of his brief tenure at
the Trump Campaign. This has nothing to do with collusion or russia or the Trump Campaign. Theyre down playing even though manafort was chairman for three critical months, april . Yeah. And we saw him at the convention. I mean, i remember being in cleveland on the floor. He was Walking Around with his body guard or handler taking care of convention business. No matter how short of a stint, he played a critical role. This white house is going to distance themselves because they dont know the outcome, but they are concerned. My sources are very clear. Theyre trying to figure out messaging and they are also concerned about how this is going to play out because once again, just as jim sciutto said, there are connections to russia for Paul Manafort and this tax evasion, all the things going on, and his partner is very key in telling the story in this courtroom. All right. Rick, youve been sitting by patiently. Lets bring you in now. Do you think the start of the manafort trial is one reason why were seeing tweet after tweet
from the president and Rudy Giulianis really confusing interviews . I think this manic performance you saw from rudy this week and the tweet gasm trump has had to throw as much stuff into the wind as he possibly can are both directly related to the fact that Robert Mueller has a very strong case against Paul Manafort here, and they recognize that the charges against manafort are leverage to have manafort speak about the things he knows concerning Donald Trumps Campaign Ties and Donald Trumps personal ties to russia. You know, Paul Manafort didnt just wander in one day. He and roger stone had a very, very long relationship. He and the president had a very long relationship before he was named chairman. He had Business Relations with Tr Tom Barack and other people around trump. This is a guy who knows where bodies are buried and understands the russian money flow coming out of russian billionaires who seem to have
all just found that trump tower was an irresistible property in manhattan for them, and so manaforts vulnerability here to the case that mueller has against him is quite high. The white house is well aware of it. Theyre in their usual panic mode, and theyre going to th w everything out under the sun. I would be surprised by nothing including trump Walking Around naked in the trees to change the subject. Dont say that. No matter how many times Kellyanne Conway opens her lie hole saying this has nothing to do with the president , it does have everything to do with the president. I dont need to picture that, but okay. Jim, i want to circle back to you a little bit and discuss something that i just you know, i mentioned, i touched on a moment ago. This is the virginia trial. Paul manafort is going to face separate charges in washington. Talk to me about that. Listen, you have these relate to financial crimes in general. Were talking about bank fraud, tax fraud, failure to register as a Foreign Agent which you have to do if youre going to lobby on behalf of a foreign government. The breadth of the charges against Paul Manafort significant enough that you have two viable cases in two separate very serious courts in the d. C. Area. This is going to be a long one. When you speak from his legal liability, its tremendous, and thats kwhwhy you arrive at tha 300year figure. You wont. But hes facing so many charges that carry serious sentences. And from a political perspective as well these are trials that are going to go on and drag on for some time and keep these issues in the conversation for this president and this administration no matter how hard they try. The second point in response to rick and april is this. This pattern of this administration of denying any relationship, significant relationship with anybody who runs in trouble is consistent. Weve seen that in the last 72
hours. Paul manafort who only served as the chairman of the Trump Campaign through the convention in three months Michael Cohen who only served as the president s lawyer and fixer for more than a decade, again, disposed of as if he was has always been that way. Thats the way the president treats and disposes of these people and makes claims as if he had far less of a relationship with him than the back show he had. A lot more to talk about. Ill keep you around for another segment. When we come back, more on Paul Manaforts trial. The first witness was a democrat that worked for the Bernie Sanders campaign. What was his testimony . Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens brown paper packages tied up with strings these are a few of My Favorite Things
one of Paul Manaforts people accusing people of living an extravagant lifestyle. This as manaforts Attorney Says he plans to pin all the crimes hes been accused of on rick gates. Theyre pointing fingers back and forth. Why all the finger pointing, jim . Whats going on . Im not a lawyer but from speaking to lawyers involved, my understanding is this is a natural play from a defense lawyer. This situation in that rick gates has pleaded guilty and when you plead guilty for a lower sentence, you are cooperating. Hes cooperating with
investigators. Paul manafort and his team know rick gates is a significant source if not the primary source against him. Their natural defense is to attack his credibility as a witness against manafort. Again, im not a lawyer. It seems remarkable that you would say that you relied on your deputy and blame him, but my understanding from talking to lawyers about this is thats a natural defense play in this environment with the cooperating witness. And jim, we heard testimony today from a Democratic Political stunt, ted devine who worked with manafort in ukraine. How much work did manafort do in ukraine . My understanding of his role was to walk the jury through exactly how this worked. What kind of work they did. Russias involvement in that work, how they were working for the pro russian candidate there. Basically how they were lobbying
on behalf of a pro russian Ukrainian Government which is a significant part of their case and also walking through how they were paid. Right . Because thats really the essential fact of the charges hes facing is that the money significant amount of money, millions of dollars he was paid for the work was routed illegally seemingly to avoid u. S. Taxes. So my understanding of his testimony was to show the ties, show russias tie to that and exactly how this work was done to avoid u. S. Taxes and, therefore, break the law. Rick, more specifically, ted devine described rick gates as doing things like arranging travel and saying manafort led the Campaign Strategy in ukraine. That Doesnt Sound Like Manafort was duped in any way. No. Look, Paul Manafort is a slippery operator. Hes been in the suers of d. C. For a long time. Hes served the most egregious sort of dictator figuring around
the world. Trying to throw his minion under the bus isnt going to work here, and Paul Manafort is the guy in the room with people. He is the guy in the room with the people closing these deals. Its not rick gates, his guy. Its Paul Manafort getting the briefcase full of cash. Its not rick gates. Paul manafort seems to have kept rick gates on a short leash in terms of control. And sent him to do administration and not master mind snchlgt. Minding. April . Its odd he gets over 60 million thats funneled to cyprus, and everything is supposed to be on the up and up because thats what the client wanted. They wanted to show the kind of circles he traveled in. Thats why devine came there. One of the things sticking out to me is the fact that many of
the Trump Supporters are saying that this is just a witch hunt. But this is not about speculation. For mule toeller to bring this, feel they have an airtight case. At the same time you have to remember, theres something called the rule of law. To work for someone who was an underling politically and bring them back to the top and get 60 million for this and then evade taxes for 15 million, thats just one piece. Thats tax evasion. And then have the money funneled to cyprus, because thats what the client wants, something it doesnt pass the smell test. Thats not a hitch wasnt. And witch hunt. There are russian connections. People have to understand this is not playing out in the court of Public Opinion because someone says something. There is a thing called the rule of law that has been broken. So i think that needs to continue to be put on the table as we talk about the facts of this case and the russia investigation. Jim, ive been wanting to talk to you about this. Im just getting the list of
information of the folks involved here. Mueller referring cases to the Southern District of new york concerning whether several lobbyists failed to register their work as Foreign Agents. One is podesta. As were talking about the Work Manafort did. Hes not the only one. That work is not illegal to be clear by itself. It becomes illegal if you dont register as a Foreign Agent as youre lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. Its illegal if you take the money and rye to rout it around the system so you dont pay taxes in it. Thats why Paul Manafort is in a courtroom. You have similar questions about what he registered it for in terms of registering as a Foreign Agent that tony podesta is facing. Listen, the broader point there is that you have a lot of u. S. Lobbyists who do a lot of work, a lot of highly paid work for some not particularly nice or friendly governments around the world. Ukraine and the pro russian government of ukraine is not the only one. It shows you theres bipartisan malpractice here overseas as well. The legal troubles hes facing are not insignificant. April, i want to switch gears. I didnt get a chance to talk to you yesterday about this. My interview with lebron james. I want you to listen to some of the things he said about this president. Watch this. We are in a position right now in america more importantly where this whole race thing is taking over. You know . And because one, because i believe our president is trying to divide us. For him to like i said use sports to divide us, i cant sit back and not say nothing. What would you say to the president if he was sitting right here . I would never sit across from him. April, trump often retaliates against people critical of him. Why do you think he hasnt done that with lebron . Its a losing moment for him. Lebron james is riding high with the i promise school. Its amazing. At the same time once the president all of this kind of really came to a crescendo moment when the Philadelphia Eagles were not allowed to come to the white house and they declined or whatever you want to call it. And we called it out. They kept saying that it was disrespectful. And then i remember asking that day to Sarah Huckabee sanders does the president realize what taking the knee is about . That put the real piece on it. They kept the narrative saying its about disrespect of soldiers. Its about disrespect of flags but the issue is Police Involved abuses and shootings, and America Supports Police but they want to weed out bad policing. If youre the president of all america and theres one segment of america crying out, lebron
james is right, theres an issue. If he doesnt want to sit across from the president , thats his prerogati prerogative. But lebron james is right, and so many other not just African Americans not just latino brothers and sisters, everyone sees something is wrong. There is a divide. There is a racial divide. We are not trying to gas it up. Were not trying to create a racial animus, but there is a problem in this nation and this president is president of all america. Hes more of a divider right now when it comes to race than he is a uniter. Lebron james is right. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you all. I appreciate that. When we come back Robert Mueller has gotten one guilty plea after another. But Paul Manafort is not along them. Why is that . Our legal experts discuss that next. vo when bandits stole the lockbox from the wells fargo stagecoach,
tap one little bumper and up go your rates. What good is your insurance if you get punished for using it . News flash nobodys perfect. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. Switch and you could save 782 on home and auto insurance. Call for a free quote today. Liberty mutual insurance. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Paul manafort facing 18 charges of bank fraud, tax evasion and other financial crimes in the first trial from the mueller investigation. It raises questions about why the former Campaign Chairman did not make a deal with the Special Counsel like other members of trump team. Im going to bring in Michael Moore and glen kushner. Michael, im going to start with you. Why do you suppose manafort hasnt pled guilty aside from the obvious that he really believes in his innocence . Well, theres probably a couple reasons. I mean, number one if hes moving money for the russians, hes going to keep quiet about that. It could be that hes expected trump to come in at the end of the day and pardon him. We dont know if theres been overt conversation about that,
whether or not a message has been sent back. Weve heard about back channels the administration likes to have. We dont know if theres a pardon deal on the table or if thats been mentioned. At this point, i feel like he keeps his mouth shut and moves forward. This is a paper case. It will be easy to prove. I expect hes going to be convicted of it, and at the end of the day, hes looking at a long time in jail if, in fact, trump doesnt come in and give him a pardon . Are you insinuating theres fear about you said he was moving money for the russians . Well, shehes charged with my launderi laundering. We know hes had involvement with folks of a less savory nature. At this point hes decided to keep his mouth shut and go through the process. Knowing if he gets convicted, im sure trump knows what he knows. That is manafort thinks that maybe some leverage to help him
seek a pardon later on. Glen, manafort so far hasnt had a lot of luck here. He was thrown in jail by a d. C. Judge over allegations that he was witness tampering, and the Virginia Judge declined to change venues and throw out evidence. If he was having tremendous success, that would be one thing, but so far were not seeing anything to show that this could end well for him. No. I think his Bad Luck Streak will continue with bob muellers team prosecuting him. Theyre some of the most experienced prosecutors, particularly in this field of financial fraud, and i agree with michael. I think there are a couple of other reasons that might explain why manafort has not pled guilty. It could be that bob mueller has never extended a plea offer to manafort. Why . The prosecutors already have rick gates so they would rather do business with rick gates who
is a smaller fish than do business with Paul Manafort, especially because Paul Manafort also reached out and tampered with witnesses. And i have to tell you as a Career Prosecutor for 30 years, don, i didnt relish the thought of bringing on a cooperator who was just that cruddy, just that damaged that they would try to tamper with witnesses. If you put a person like that on the stand as a cooperator, that Cooperator Stink can rub off on the prosecutors and the jury starts looking at you like why would you sponsor somebody who is urging witnesses to lie on his behalf and how can we be confident that hes telling the truth . It may be bob mueller has not even extended Paul Manafort a plea offer. You dont want to do a deal with someone like that . Exactly. And it could be hes afraid of the russians. Because quite aspiring cooperator i sat down with Ar Tickulated One of their
concerns is im afraid if i flip on my associates they might come after me or the family. If Paul Manafort were to flip, the russians could very well start looking at his family members. Weve seen Poisoning Incidents in the uk of former russians who have flipped against russia. So i think that may also be what is Keeping Manafort from cooperating. Flglen, youre getting to th crux of the question i asked michael there. Insinuating fear. It appears there might be some fear from him if he is guilty of doing what is being alleged here. Yeah. Yeah. Michael, i want to talk about some of the other characters. Rick gates is key in this case and flynn and papadopoulos. Havent heard from specifically mueller has gotten out of them. You heard glen saying that well, maybe he thinks that gates is better and is a cooperating witness and its better to deal
with and the information is similar . I think gates was involved and the right hand man to manafort in their operations, so we dont know what exactly they told bob mueller. What we know is hes building his case and laying this thing out. This is the first case they brought. They need to win this case, and hes building this like a foundation. And this will be the first when we Start Talking about money and documents, and ive said for a long time at the end of the day the administration is facing a follow the money case. That is well follow the money and see if it leads to trump. This is just the start of that. Whether were talking about gates or other cooperators or accountants. We can go down the list, theyre going to be tracking these payments, and getting these documents out before a jury. And so let me tell you, mueller has his case, and this case, the next case and the next case already planned out. Hes right now this is just a foundational move on his part. Its a classic federal
prosecutor move to start at the bottom and spread out. But i will tell you this. Manafort knows what hes doing. And he was close to the campaign. Trump wants to push him away and say he wasnt involved for a long time. Thats a fallacy. Glen, im over time, but i think this is an important question if you can answer. You gamed out different possibilities as to why mueller doesnt just subpoena the president. You say maybe the president moved from being a subject to a target in the investigation. Explain that. So the Department Of Justice has a policy that we dont Subpoena Targets of an investigation. Why is that . Because a Grand Jury Subpoena is a court order directing the person to come in, appear and testify truthfully before the grand jury. Well a target by definition has a right against selfincrimination because were looking to indict them. Thats why we dont subpoena a target just like you cant call a defendant to the stand at trial, because he has a Fifth Amendment right against selfincrimination. I think the more time as, the more likely it is that the
people that bob mueller has not subpoenaed have ripened into targets of the investigation that would go for The Path For Kushner and stone and onjunior. Does that mean indictment or a report . He could put out a report to congress. It could be a combination. He could return indictments against all conspirators but maybe leave the president out of it and only report what he found to congress, or we could see 1974 all over again with Richard Nixon and he could name the president as an indicted coconspirator. Michael, as you said, this is only the beginning. Thank you both. I appreciate it. When we come back is Rudy Giuliani helping or hurting President Trump when it comes to fending off mueller. And how close could muellers investigation get to the president s own family . When i received the diagnoses,
everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. I live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. Once i moved here i didnt want to live anywhere else. I love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other peoples lives. Together, were building a better california. Collusion is not a crime. The president and Rudy Giuliani are now saying this. This after the president has repeated some version of no collusion a whopping 165 times since may of 2016. We have the author of the truth about trump. And harry litman. Im happy to have you both on. Harry, the president and his lawyer have gone from no collusion to collusion. Collusion isnt a crime. Collusion as we know is not a legal term. What charges do trump and his family need to be concerned about . In a word, conspiracy. But it doesnt help their credibility that hes been screaming no collusion, no collusion from the rooftops and then theres kind of a never mind moment oh, maybe it is collusion but thats not a crime. But its always been the case. People have been saying it on these shows and others for
months. Look, the crime here is conspiracy. Its a simple crime. You agree to do something unlawful and you do something furthering it. Mueller has laid down a couple of conspiracies involving violation of federal election law, involving violation of Spu Computer Law and the simplest thing is if trump or his family members, im thinking especially of trump junior, joined that conspiracy. But the basic point is the law that they have to worry about is a criminal conspiracy. They dont have to complete the crime, but if they agree to do something unlauwful, theyre in hot water. Why do you think he has this shifting defense, michael . Is he concerned about people who are close to him, possibly . His son or his soninlaw . Its slogans. So if hes saying no collusion, those are two words. Crooked hillary two yorwords. Its not a crime, three words. He knows through repetition of the simplest message hell make the argument in the court of Public Opinion. I think Rudy Giuliani and the president both believe that this is going to come down to a political battle, that the president may never be charged with a crime. May never we may never get to that point. It will be politics. And theyre campaigning. I sort of laughed at when i heard Rudy Giuliani say what he said. If the president committed a crime, its not a crime. Its insane, but this is something that the president has said, and nixon actually promoted this idea that if the president does you cant break a law. By definition its legal because hes the government. How long have you known trump . Three or four years and i studied him for longer than that. So if he is if someone in his family is indicted, how do
you think hell react . I think it depends who it is. If its don junior, i think he could easily cut him lose, and weve had Rudy Giuliani say Jared Kushner is disposable, but of ivanka he said shes a fine woman, so shes going to be protected. She reflects well on the president. I think hes always had his doubts about the young man who bears his name. Hes never really had confidence in him. Harry, of all the folks attending the trump tower meeting, how do you think is in the biggest legal jeopardy . Junior. Hes the one who sets it up. Hes the one who says if thats what youre saying, i love it. Hes the one who allegedly, this is cohen talking, but well see if theres corroboration, tells his father about it. Hes in the thick of it in the false coverup statement done on air force one. But at least based on suggestion and anecdote, the president is pretty involved as well. But i think hes the moving force. You have the sense of, like, Kushner Being There and messaging a secretary get me out of here somehow, and maybe trying to tiptoe away on air force one. This seems to be a trump junior production. Though importantly in the meeting now, we learned in a complete selfinflected error, one of many by Rudy Giuliani, we learned there was a premeeting attended by others, rick gates, the cooperator in monofoert. Thats going to be a lot of information to tell mueller. Yeah. I think one of the things harry said that was really relevant is that the crime does not have to be successful. You can conspire in something that fails and you still committed a crime. So harry made an excellent point. Thats why theres attempted
murder and attempted murder. Conspiracy the crime is the agreement. Cn sn reportin is reporting cohen is prepared to say President Trump approved to the meeting with the russians. Trump did not attend the meeting himself. Does that make a difference to prosecutors . To prosecutors . I mean, having him there helps a little, but if he approves of it, remember, the crime were talking about is conspiracy. So duoes he agree to the unlawfl objective that is getting dirt on hillary . If he does, Doesnt Matter if hes at the meeting or not at the meeting, he still is liable. Not clear Rudy Giuliani knows that, and hes out there saying all kind of stuff, but if he approved it, hes in trouble. How far will he go to protect his family, the president. Oh, i think hell issue pardons but theres only so much he can do up to that point. If these people get prosecuted, theyre going to go to court. Thank you michael and harry. Appreciate your time. Thank you. When we come back multiple states banning together to block a company from Posting Blueprints of 3d printed guns online. The problem is the plans are already posted. Let your perfect drive come together at the Lincoln Summer Invitation sales event. Get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus 1,000 bonus cash. With my bladder leakage, the products ive tried just didnt fit right. They were very saggy. Its getting in the way of our camping trips. But with new sizes, depend fitflex is made for me. Introducing more sizes for better comfort. New depend fitflex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. Hours before it would have become legal for anyone to use a 3d printer to make a handgun, courts have stepped in. A federal judge made it illegal for cody wilson and his Nonprofit Company to make the plans available online. They say it could make it easier for terrorists and others who
obtain what they call a ghost gun. Im joined now by one of the Attorneys General who sued. He is is Maryland Attorney general brian frost. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it. Good to be with you, don. After the ruling came down, he took his plans down making the plans unavailable for now. Whats next in your fight to stop this from becoming a reality . The judge is going to hold a hearing on august 10th. We hope there will be a preliminary injunction. That will be an indefinite injunction until theres a final trial on the merits. We believe that we do have the ability and that we will be able to achieve that preliminary injunction as well. I found it interesting. I was speaking about this with my colleague crisco moe earlicu earlier. Wilsons legal argument says
basically this is about free speech saying the government cant block the publication of the information on the web. Do you see this as a problem . This argument . Well, i think its a losing argument, ultimately. The Supreme Court has held for centuries that dangerous speech is not covered by the first amendment. Justice oliver Wendle Holmes said you cant yell fire in a crowded theater. This is order of magnitude more dangerous than yelling fire in a crowded theater. You could have millions of these untraceable and virtually undetectable guns downloaded and distributed made by individuals who have 3d printers, and theyre dangerous as an international proposition. The United States has longtaken the position that to prevent terrorism we wont allow the export of these. I can tell you they will be dangerous on the streets of maryland, state of washington and the others that joined the
lawsuit. Its currently illegal to produce or own a fully plastic gun under the undetectable firearms act, but this law is probably not specific enough bu because they probably never foresaw people could be able to use a printer. Trump said he was going to look into the situation and speak to the nra about it. And then he came back with a position that mirrors the nras. Do you think he caved to them . First the nra should do something. The nra doesnt control guns. They do but theyre not supposed to. Its the president who should have a bigger voice. But go on. Hes got the state department, the Defense Department to consultant with. It is ironic he consultants with the nra on this. And the nra is funded by the gun manufacturers. They have nothing to gain from
these cads, these computer assisted designs being Down Loadable on the internet. But i really do hope he backs off. There was no reason for the government to flip on this. The case brought by mr. Wilson who describes himself as a crypto anarchist. Had been all the way up to the Supreme Court and had lost. There was no reason for the government to do 180 degree turn on it . Quick answer. Wilson said about this recently said im being sued by at least 21 state Attorneys General. If you want your Second Amendment online, this is the fight. Do you see this as a Second Amendment fight or is it Something Different to you . I think this is much different. People do have Second Amendment rights. But simply allowing guns to be made at home that cant be traceable, its really tough for law enforcement. It will prevent solving crimes that will virtually
undetectable. It can slip through different security measures. This is just an open invitation to criminals to terrorists, and i dont think thats what the Second Amendment is designed to do. Attorney general frost, thank you for your time. Thank you. Is the Republican Party officially turning into the party of strutrump . Yeah. Well tell you what the president is saying while campaigning for his pick for the governor of florida and what it all means for the midterms. vo have to happen . Idnt i didnt see it. vo what if we could go back . What if our car. Could stop itself . In iihs frontend crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. Not toyota. Not honda. Not ford. The subaru impreza. More than a car, its a subaru
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