what happened? >> it was around 1:00 in the afternoon, according to the lake mary police department when they say that george zimmerman flagged down a police officer and said hey, someone just took a shot at me and it appears that george zimmerman was not wounded directly by the bullet but he was injured as a result of glass, broken glass that came from the bullet coming through the passenger side of the window. about the same time authorities get a 911 call from a passerby who says a man has just come up to me saying he shot at some one, and the man he shot at was george zimmerman. that person or the person who did the shooting has been identified as matthew apperson. it's important to know that george zimmerman and matthew apperson have had a beef. it dates back to the last year and some say prior to that they've had return-ins before. >> speak to the man who called 911 in a moment. that other man, matt apperson he was involved in the incident said zimmerman was waiving a gun around and threatening him. what is zimmerman's side saying? >> this is don west now, the attorney who represents george zimmerman at this time. he said george has told him, that george says he was driving down the road minding his own business when suddenly he saw behind him and heard a commotion. he looks, he sees a vehicle behind him, flashing lights a man leaning out and shouting obscenities at him, the car pulls beside george zimmerman, zimmerman rolls up the window and the next thing he knows, a bullet comes flying through. essentially you here don west saying george zimmerman is nothing but a victim here and there's no mention of him allegedly waiving a weapon which is what matthew apperson said started all of this today. >> both men had guns martin. but no one was even detained? why is that? >> and many people do find this kind of striking and some will say there's the george zimmerman influence here. this is another example that george zimmerman just attracts the wrong kind of attention, and investigators are taking this one very very carefully, the authorities there in the police department say right now they wanted to be able to talk to both men, both men said they wanted to have their lawyers there present at the time they were being interviewed, it all takes time authorities are saying no one's charged yet, it's an ongoing investigation. don? >> martin savidge, thank you very much. i wanted to bring in ken cornell. he called 911. thank you so much for joining us this evening, you were inside the restaurant in outside the restaurant minding your business and what happened? >> no i was coming out of the parking lot. we had just gotten back from lunch, as we were leaving our car, the car came up to us excuse me sir, can you please call 911? i started walking over to him. i was like what's the problem? he said i just shot someone, please call 911. i said don't you have a phone? i do not have a phone, i have a gun, i shot george zimmerman, please call 911. >> what was your reaction? >> i was kind of shocked. it took me a few minutes to determine whether or not i should call 911, it was an odd situation. >> was he frazzled? >> he was definitely visibly shaken. he seemed a little panicked and very nervous and you could tell something did happen. >> did he show you the weapon? >> he did not show me the weapon. i think it was a 35 he had, and he did say he shot him and he said his name. >> so then you called 911? >> yes, sir. >> and how long did it take them to get there? >> about three minutes. >> and what did police say when you said i have this guy, matt ap row sin and he shot george zimmerman, what did they say? >> when they pulled up, that's when i walked away. when i was on the phone with 911, the lady heard him in the background and said is that him? can i speak with him. this is the third incident we've had with him. they're aware of my name this is the third incident i've had with george he pulled a gun and so i shot him. >> so do you know where george zimmerman was at the time when you and matt saw each other today? >> no i was not aware. >> everyone down there knows who george zimmerman is. why do you think he's been in so much trouble since the trayvon martin trial, since his trial? >> that i'm not sure seems like kind of a hot head. he's an animal. >> you think so? >> i don't know. i don't know. he's been continuously getting into problems. >> you said it took police not long to come. once they came explain to me what went on. >> once the cops came that's when i kind of walked away. cops went to him and started talking to him. then three or four more cops came. i didn't hear what they were saying. but he sat on the ground and said i shot george zimmerman, let them know the gun's in the car, cops frisked him to make sure he didn't have anything on him for their safety. and he sat there and more cops came. >> and they took him away? >> yes, sir. i don't know if they took him in cuffs or not, but the car was left there and then he came a little bit later and took the car. >> you probably thought, never in a million years. >> yeah this is a crazy day for me. >> ken, thank you. >> thanks so much for your time. >> so much more to the story. ricardo vigara arrived on the scene and caught what happened next on camera. he joins me now. hello, ricardo. >> how you doing? >> you saw george zimmerman by the side of the ride and you pulled over. and we have the video that you shot. so tell us what happened as we look at this. what happened? >> well when i was driving i saw him, he was on the other side of the road. i see the police behind his car. and i look over his window was down. driver's side window was down. so i park on the side i ran across the street and i saw him recording, and the officers say, can i help you, so i walk further down and i start recording. the ambulance start coming which i gt a video too also. they were questioning him, trying to treat him inside the vehicle. he didn't want to come out of the car. i was trying to get as much video as i could, about but the love wouldn't allow me to do it. they wanted to take him in the little car to the ambulance, and he refused. he asked the ambulance to back up to his car and he walk out on his driver's side and just walk into the ambulance. and pretty much i got about that and a couple other videos that i would like to share later maybe. >> we'd like to see them. you say that he's very popular in town. do you see him out in town a lot? is he out a lot? >> yeah i think -- i don't know why, i mean, a guy like that, to me if i was him, i'd probably move out of the state or maybe go away, because a lot of people try to confront him, and that's probably how problem started. i don't know what really happened but as the guy say, i was on the other side. so he was with the other guy and i was with zimmerman. i wanted to record t because these days recording on the street recording is really good so you can show the public what's happening. >> do you think the trouble seems to find him wherever he goes or is he finding trouble? >> like i say, i don't know him real good. i never notice him fighting with anybody. everyone that confront him, say he's violent and always back talking. when he was in court all those days, he look like a nice guy. i never talk to him before but seems like he's always looking for trouble. >> thank you, ricardo. >> let's talk to criminal defense attorney representing matthew aperson, who is involved in that. good to see you again. >> hi don. >> what does your client say happened today? >> i won't be getting into the specifics of it. he had made an initial call and your one person said as far as calling 911, then he initially spoke to the police, and basically he said it was done in self-defense. but the facts i'm not going to get into right now, i think it's appropriate to let law enforcement conduct their investigation without obstruction, without suggestion of where they should go. we'll help them out as we can, to the extent that we're letting them know what we think took place and what we know took place, and they can make their evaluation. we're very confident that it will be deemed a self-defense and that the truth will unfold over time. >> there's an ongoing beef with your client i think it was in september of last year they had an altercation, that was the original altercation. why do you think that -- what is going on? why is there this ongoing beef between these two men? >> well i think that's jumping to a conclusion between these two men. i don't believe there is a beef at least as it relates to mr. aperson. he's twice since september called law enforcement and have them memorialize what he saw as a run-in where he was placed in fear two different occasions, what he said by george zimmerman. he wanted that documented so in the event something would happen in a future date that was there. lo and behold we find ourselves at that future time and thankfully he had those things documented, so people could understand that he had this previous issue, but there's been no ongoing relationship with them. and what happened by all accounts from mr. aperson, self-defense. >> how did they actually meet? >> meeting is a pretty broad term. as the first reports in september of last year indicate there was a situation on a road where there was an allegation all the news -- it was covered. it was covered by you all. basically it was that he claimed that mr. zimmerman had said some threatening words to him and had acted in a threatening manner. so he simply reported it to law enforcement. short time after that there was another report to law enforcement. and as i understand it there was no other contact between the two until today. >> i want to say, this is george zimmerman attorney george west she spoke and said -- let's play it let's play it. >> this fellow was taunting andelling at him, calling him names, you gonna shoot me now, kind of thing. and i don't know where that came from but in any event, when george recognized and realized who he was and what he was saying he rolled his window up to get away not to provoke it. and the fellow followed him, pulled up next to him and shot him. could have killed him easily. could have killed him. >> that was zimmerman's lawyer and he said he was minding his own business and said your client attacked him. >> well i think let's just compare, we have a history of challenges in joshlg zimmerman's life starting with trayvon martin, and other issues that have made the news. then you have my client, matt aperson, who has never had any recorded violent episode who had no reason to go after anybody, who doesn't have such a history. but then he just blindly goes and shorts at george zimmerman for no reason with no provocation. when you juxtapose each against the other, i think that's very clear that in fact george zimmerman did have a gun on him, that george zimmerman has had a history of brandishing a weapon. and in fact you have a suggestion that -- and i'll also mention that mr. aperson has a concealed weapons permit. and so he was in legal possession of a gun and in fact had called law enforcement, and he called them two times in september and called law enforcement against as soon as he was able to get to a stranger's phone to call this in immediately. does that suggest somebody, don, who is guilty when they're the one going to the police? when they're the one calling and making memorializations -- >> i understand all that but he admitted to shooting into the vehicle. >> he stated that he acted in self-defense. >> and george zimmerman did not shoot? >> he didn't shoot because there was a shot and then he got away. now why he didn't shoot or not, i cannot tell you. but you don't need to wait to see if a bullet strikes you, before you have the right to pull a gun. >> so are you saying this is stand your ground? >> no this is good old-fashioned self-defense. if one is in reasonable fear of their life or imminent bodily harm, they have a right, as every state in the country allows to, protect themselves if they're threatened. and if you have documented instances of previous threats, you've got an individual who's called the police, look, if you commit a crime, do you call the police and say, come here, let me show you what i did, or do you call the police if you've been victimized? >> my question do you expect your client to be arrested and charged? if so what do you think the charge will be? >> no i don't expect it. but law enforcement is a good department in lake mary. i met with their detectives today. professional to a t. when we first let them know before we went to see him, that he wanted to impose his fifth amendment rights so there wouldn't be any questions until i had an opportunity to speak to them, they honored that acted as ultimate professionals. we don't want to get in their way. we have our investigator on it this evening, been working throughout the evening since we first got on it. and no i would be very surprised. however, you have one person presumably making an allegation that somebody shot at them unprovoked. we'll have to see how that lands. do i expect a conviction? no. do i expect there to be charges? no. but one can't read the future but we're prepared to go forward if it does. >> a pleasure to talk to you always. >> thank you, too, don. >> we have a lot more to come on george zimmerman and his latest encounter with the law. why is it that this man can't stay out of trouble? plus michelle obama, her personal and candid comments about being black in america. why her critics are accusing her of playing the race card. the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. an investigation tonight in florida where police say george zimmerman was shot at. he and the shooter apparently had been in an ongoing dispute. zimmerman was treated in the hospital he was released. we'll talk about it with reba martin janet johnson, and casey jordan. >> okay reba you first. george zimmerman's run-ins with the law really piling up. why can't he seem to stay out of trouble? and i'll ask you the next question after this. go ahead. >> you know don, when i look at this you can't help but think about o.j. simpson. someone who gets off for a really horrific crime, they're acquitted and you think, go on about your life and just stay out of the limelight, but that isn't what happens. as we see, george zimmerman keeps finding himself in altercations with individuals, and guns being brandished and we heard from his attorney threatening this man, threatening to kill him. and i think what has happened is some kind of sense of confidence bravado, being above the law and somehow being away to get away with things that ordinary citizens don't go away with. i don't think we've seen the end of this. and we know how the o.j. matter ended, it ended with him in jail for some very serious crimes. >> this is the question i wanted to ask. don't freak out. i have to ask this question could we be blaming the victim here? could george zimmerman legitimately be the victim? after all, his window was up he did not fire. the guy fired through his window. he went to the hospital. the guy said i shot george zimmerman. so are we blaming the victim possibly? >> we may find out from the investigation, but we're hearing from the attorney that that's not in fact what happened. that george threatened mr. apperson, that he did show a weapon threatened to kill him and then looz a witness that came up after the incident occurred and mr. apperson told him a very consistent story. so i think there's still a lot of evidence that's going to be revealed in this case, but doesn't look like he's a question. >> janet? >> technically, on a police report he would be the listed victim. >> casey? >> he's a complainant, not necessarily a victim. >> hold on. >> no. >> well think about it we don't know if he provoked it. if he provoked it and insighted it, there's no reason to think he's the victim. it's a perfect storm, two people with a history of conflict together suddenly find themselves on a highway, guns pointed, somebody points a gun, the other person shoots first. nobody's done a formal investigation yet. it's almost as if the police say, the two of you are the same personality and sometimes two idiots just meet together and provoke each other. i don't think you're going to get a good investigation here. >> no no no. that's not florida law. under florida law and stand your ground the police may not make an arrest if there's a viable self-defense days. in florida, they assume self-defense and they can't make an arrest until they disprove it. so everyone's been saying that he gets away with whatever he wants to do and that's why they're not arresting. the police are investigating and martin said that. they have to rule out self-defense before they can make an reafs, but it won't be george zimmerman who gets arrested. it would be the guy who shot him. like it or not. >> what are they running into each other again? >> if we're believing everything his attorney has told us, two individuals with very different backgrounds. george zimmerman with a public record of violence and being aggressive and from what we're being told this other man doesn't have that kind of record or background. so we have to take that into consideration. >> that's stand your ground. i knew he was violent and had a propensity and that's why i shot at him. >> the question is, did he set it up? >> remember when you growing up and your mom and dad said you never mess around with anyone who has less to lose than you do. george zimmerman has a lot to lose. so after being acquitted, should he just drive away and say i'm out of here or stay in his home? >> he should live his life but avoid these kinds of conflicts. shouldn't be in threatening people in domestic violence disputes, and go around committing crimes. he needs to figure out how to live like the rest of us, get a job, be law abiding. that's what people expect. >> this seems like an extraordinary number of interactions for the average person to have with police. so why does he continue to have these problems? you know the saying trouble seems to follow people wherever they go. >> his ex-wife shelly thinks he's a narcissist people who live in their fantasy world, overcompensating for their own failures and they self-affirm by putting themselves into situations that they are worthwhile. that whole quote of don't you know who i am when he ran into matthew apperson last september, shows he has a vision of himself that's not reality-based. we think he should pack up move away go to the casey anthony school of how to avoid problems after you've gotten away with a homicide. but the bottom line is he likes to push the envelope. he thinks he's right, everyone else is wrong. and he's out to prove that the law is on his side. >> janet, a brief final word. >> yeah i love that casey anthony is now a role model. [ laughter ] >> that's frightening. >> that's your statement? i like it. that was brief. and poignant. thank you, i appreciate all of you this evening upon. up n the nfl punishes tom braid and the new england patriots over deflategate, did they get what they deserve? ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms? i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. this is amazing. i love this car. real people are discovering surprising things at chevy. this is a road trip car. we're sold. it's so pretty. they're good-looking cars. it feels great. perfect. this is not what i would expect from a chevy at all. get more than you expect, for less than you imagined at the chevy memorial day sale, going on now. get cash back for 15% of the msrp on select 2015 models in stock the longest. that's over four-thousand dollars on this chevy equinox. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. ♪ ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. tonight the nfl coming down hard on tom brady and the new england patriots over deflategate. the league suspending brady for four games without pay. the team fined $1 million and forfeiting two draft picks. rachel nichols is here with me she is cnn and turner sports anchor. denise white, ceo of sports management and pete najarian cnbc fast-money contributor. punishment fit the crime? >> yes, it fits the crime. a lot of folks that i talk to around the league some thought it was too much some thought it was too little so i think they have got it right. >> i wonder what his agent has to say about this if he thinks the punishment fits the crime. and rachel you spoke to his agent, what did he tell you? >> we had a statement from don yee, doing his talking in righting, but he was blistering in writing, he said this discipline is ridiculous, has no legitimate basis. he thinks that the outcome was predetermined before the report was ever issued. he also disputed part of the disciplinary statement. he thinks that tom cooperated with the investigation. he thinks he answered every question presented to him, and he made it clear, tom brady will appeal this decision. don, he's got three days to do so. >> what happens during that appeal process? >> well, here's the catch. this ruling came from the nfl offices. guess who gets to hear the appeal? nfl commissioner roger goodell. now, roger goodell can appoint an outside agent to hear the appeal. that happened with the saints bounty scandal, and the adrian peterson. the outside arbitrators many times have knocked down the discipline that the nfl has ruled on. this is what his agent said today, quote, sadly, it diminishing the nfl and it tells players and fans, the games on the field don't matter as much as the games plays on park avenue. he wants it put into an outs arbitratoror's care but calling out roger goodell in public i don't know if it's going to work. you have to think roger goodell is going to say you know what i'm the one who is entitled to hear the appeal about what my office decided, i'm going to hear the appeal and if tom brady really is suspended for four games, guess who on the schedule he comes back against? the indianapolis colts, the team that started this whole thing in the first place. >> poet justice in a sense. >> nfl wins with the ratings again, even in scandal. >> goodell says i'm the decider. >> so robert kraft issue said a statement saying, tom brady has our unconditional support. our belief in him has not wavered. what's your reaction to all this? >> of course he has to come out and say that it's his quarterback. he's won four super bowls for him. this is his golden boy. there's no doubt in my mind i don't think this is going to detract from tom brady's legacy too much. but it is an asterisk against them and it is something that i think we all suspected was going to happen, this four-game suspension is nothing that i don't think anybody in the industry thought was going to happen. i think they'll appeal it obviously and come back probably with a two-game suspension. but the surprising thing here was the actual draft picks they got taken away from them. the million dollars isn't going to hurt the club but the draft picks are going to. so that was a surprising factor. >> first round next season and the season after that a fourth round. >> correct. >> you think this punishment is fair? >> i think the punishment is very fair. if you look at when guys get suspended for p.e.d.s, and that's a way to levy up and have somewhat of a -- being able to perform better obviously. this is kind of in essence, a little bit like that in the sense of they deflated the balls and it's a better performance. so i think it wasn't a surprise to me whatsoever about the four-game suspension. i thought it might have been a couple more games, but four was not surprising. >> i thought it would be like one or two. >> and she's right, nfl teams can find a million dollars in their couch cushions. but they're sending a message. that's the largest fine in nfl history, for anything. >> but they're not -- rachel -- [ all speak at once ] >> they're not just deciding this. they have several reasons for this punishment. sty gate in 2007 a lack of cooperation from the patriots and tom brady himself. so is this cover-up worse than the crime? rachel said this is the worst, right? >> it's about the integrity of the league. i'm going to bring that up again, because that's really what this is all about. when you start to break down what they had to go through, they had to go through all of this and yet the 200-plus pages, it really never definitively said tom brady tlulths is a part of this. but they needed to come down because it's about repeat offenses. first it was spy gate. now it's this. this is the way the league will punish them and all 31 other teams are well aware of how the nfl's going to come down on anybody breaking any rules. >> we also saw his statement on thursday where he didn't want to talk about the wells report and the findings that he didn't take it seriously. i wonder if his bosses are irritated about that and do you think he'll take the punishment to heart? >> really hope that he does. if he was my dlint and i was advising him, i'd be like it's time to fall on the sword, tom. we're all going to be okay with the fact that in you did this we can forgive you, but i don't know if he's going to do that or not, because he's been so defiant to this point and saying no no no no i'm not lying, i didn't cheat. but i don't know if he feels he can come back from this. but if i was advising him, i'd be like time to fall on the sword, let's come clean, let's just say yes and please forgive me it's about that time. >> do you think nfl officials were offended by his comments, pete? >> well i'm sure they were quite frankly. and the severity of this fine i think some of that goes to the fact that it was being laughed off. and i think robert kraft said it best we've got to accept whatever the nfl levies out, and this is exactly what happened. and i think tom's going to have to accept this. >> i don't think his demeanor had any impact in terms of this punishment. i think the message was on two fronts. don't cheat. don't take into your own hands what rules you think are and aren't important. and number two, cooperate with us when we come to investigate you. the nfl has no subpoena power. they can't force anyone to answer any of their questions. so the only leverage they have is to show by example to other teams and players around the league look what will happen to you if you don't deal with us. the punishment will be worse than maybe whatever you were going to give us and whatever we would have ruled on. they're now going to rule by fear and threats of this kind of thing, instead of the subpoena power a court would give them. and make no mistake, they want everyone around the league to hear it. this is what happens if you don't cooperate. >> i don't know if you saw bob sheefr this sunday but he said it's like baseball. baseball you cheat until you get caught and that's part of the game. i kind of agree with him. we'll continue to talk. >> you know what they say in nascar if you're not cheating you're not trying. >> you're not winning. . coming up, michelle obama's personal comments about race. why are critics of the first lady crying foul now. ? 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over the years, folks have used plenty of interesting words to describe me. one said i exhibited a little bit of uppityism. another noted that i was one of my husband's cronies of color. cable news referred to me as obama's baby mama. let's put that magazine cover up. and they're giving the terrorist fist bump. are you surprised this cover still rankels her to this day? >> in some ways no. i interviewed her in 2010 she felt like she had gotten past these ideas that were floating around about her during that campaign. one of the things you see is that when she comes into office in 2008 she has to get past that, introduce herself, or reintroduce herself to the american public. she talks about now he feels like a fully formed first lady. she was using the moments as teaching moments, that they too would face these hardships, that african americans are often misperceived by the general public but it's up to folks in the audience and by extension, other folks, to not give up and reach for excellence. >> neea malik a good to have you on. >> take care. >> joining me, cnn political commentator and host, ben ferguson. nice to be here. >> i know. doesn't happen every day. >> so she was well received by the students at tuskegee, but not everybody is happy. this is rush limbaugh. here it is. >> michelle obama is on a roll. she is playing the race card she's doubling down on it. >> you were clearly not voted in until just your race. white people in droves went out to vote for you and you were somehow or another invisible so much that you became the president and first lady of the united states of america. >> twice. >> tell me about the troubles that you have seen. [ laughter ] >> why does the right always get ticked off when the first lady or the president talks about race? >> because it happens a lot. it's happened a whole lot. >> but they're black! >> part of the issue -- >> you think the president and the first lady talk about race a lot? >> i do think he talks about it a lot. i'm not saying it's a bad thing to talk about it some but does it always have to come up? >> always? [ all speak at once ] >> i think sometimes it comes up. >> more than a lot. >> more than it needs to because it's trying to push a wedge. >> when a black person mentions race like one time -- >> tell me why? >> because they're black! [ laughter ] >> it's interesting to me obama mentions race and i've heard you mention this before. the race speech about jeremiah write which happened before he was president, ferguson the beer summit -- >> a bat mark in his career. >> and the trayvon thing, that's three times in six years he's mentioned year. there's 365 days in a year. he done mentioned race three times in -- >> did you say he done mentioned? >> perhaps. >> it seems like they bring it up as often as it can be applied to a situation. sometimes you have to look at a situation -- everyone voted for them twice. glen made an excellent point. they were elected by an awful lot of people who had nothing to do with race and -- >> what's the problem with that argument? >> they won twice, millions of people voted for them and said we don't care about race. >> you didn't hear them say that. >> i did, we voted for them for the same reasons that we voted for al gore or bill clinton. >> i know plenty of black people who voted for race -- when obama mentioned the elderly, he talks about their age. yet somehow, when he talks about an issue that's devoted toerates we want him to be raceless. and you said every -- >> i'm not saying raceless. i'm saying not to mention it. >> the thing is if you have a particular expertise, or if you have something that you are, like say we elected a general, to talk about military issues. if hillary clinton is elected, we'll talk about foreign foreign affairs. so they're black. why can't it be a teachable moment for -- >> some people feel like she was acting as if were there unfair treatment to her on a regular basis. there were people who said awful things about her. some people. but people have judged you on your merit and not the color of your skin at least through two presidential elections. the fact that they were able to do that well and then you keep bringing it up -- >> but she doesn't keep bringing it -- >> you've been able to transcend race. >> she is at tesk gee. >> which is a black school. it's a historically black college. >> all right, stay with me. are killings in the line of duty on the rise? 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>> we have to be very clear when we use numbers. the knee-jerk reaction is oh my god, cops are getting killed more than they ever have before. that's untrue. the 51 from last year supposed to be this big spike, is still ten officers fewer than the average over the last four decades. the 21 is the lowest incident from the '80s. so last year was still unusually low, just more than the year before. it would be more interesting to figure out why the 27 happened than the 51. >> i think right now there's the least amount of respect for police officers in a long time. because of some officers who have done some stupid things. and there's a sentiment now that they're the bad guys. and there's people who think, i don't have to show respect for the cops i don't have to like them. and there are some people who say, i'm gonna pop a cap in a cop and kill them. >> did you say pop a cap? >> yeah. [ laughter ] >> it's interesting because that allows you -- >> you think the police are loved more today than a year ago? no. >> look at the people who say, f the cops. >> a lot of people are blaming ferguson hands up don't shoot. it didn't really happen. >> but why would it matter? >> why would a hands up don't shoot narrative make people shoot police? >> because it made the police to be murderers and you don't respect them -- >> so then you murder them? >> we saw them on a bridge saying what do we want dead cops when do we want it now. [ all speak at once ] >> my point is this the numbers are up and i think there are people out there -- >> they're not up ben. >> according to the fbi, they're up. but you're saying you can manipulate the numbers. >> it was 27 two years ago. before that it was higher than it was. the year before that it was higher than last year. >> what about the way officers are portrayed, do you think there's a lack of respect for officers going on right now? >> no. >> have you not seen the way people have been acting toward good police officers in ferguson. >> how have they been acting? >> when they're in their faces and screaming at them and cursing them out. some are african american cops they're being screamed at because they wear a uniform. they hate them. not all cops are bad. >> i'm not going to push to the hate point. >> when you're spitting in a police officer's face, you hate them. >> i never say people who spit on cops don't hate cops. i'm saying a protest doesn't mean you hate them. it means you have a critique. it doesn't mean you don't respect them. it means you have a critique of them. >> we'll be right back. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these occasional digestive issues... with 3 types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips' the real question that needs to be asked is "what is it that we can do that is impactful?" what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, that's what i'd like to do. this is good, mom. 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(chuckles) it's delicious! and this new kibble blend is so healthy. thank you. no, nancy, thank you. kibbles 'n bits. because every bit matters. >> what do you think of my new crib? >> i love it. you got your name on the wall. that's major. >> kind of a big deal. >> i'm a really big deal. thank you, guys. appreciate you joining me. see you back here tomorrow night. ac 360 starts right now. good evening, thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with breaking news. another incident involving george zimmerman. a gun and conflicting versions of events. police in lake mary florida say he suffered minor injuries after he was shot at. the other man involved actual called police last year because he felt threatened by zimmerman. it had been two years since zimmerman was acquitted of murder. after fatally shooting trayvon martin. in that time he's had a number of run-ins with the law, everything from speeding to accusations of domestic violence. the investigation is still in the early stages but police

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