but he knew -- he was in the bathroom and he was able to get out of the building, again, because these exit doors were working well. i can't tell you how thankful i am just to do that one task homeland security told us to do. >> because in the past you couldn't push through the exit doors? >> they weren't easily opened. they had safeties on them so they couldn't open either way. but now he was able to get out. i mean, he could be alive because of this. >> where were you when you found out this had occurred? >> i was heading up to the service. i'm there every -- i was there last night for service. i go up there around 10:00 and -- in the morning and one of the vice presidents that i work with on facilities now that i stepped down, he called. he worked for city emergency management. and he said he just got word there's an active shooter at tree of life. go up there and see if this is true. i tried to get up. i only live a block away from the synagogue. i tried to get up shady avenue and was -- police cars everywhere. guns drawn, rifles, i was -- surreal. >> we first thought it was a training, a drill, whenever it came over the police scanner. we thought -- we couldn't even believe it. have you heard about any victims inside, their positions? if you knew of them? >> no. i'm sure -- i know everyone there. i know everybody in the building. i know that this -- i almost don't want to know but i have to know the tragedy that occurred inside. >> what have you been talking with -- with the other people that are past presidents or, you know, in a position of power within the jewish community here in squirrel hill? what has everyone been saying to you? >> well, i mean, all we had up until now, we had a -- i tried to call the -- i couldn't reach, but the other past presidents, i spoke to the current president. but we're all either not in the area or we were en route and we just couldn't get in there. i mean, i was talking -- like i said, i was walking up shady and all of a sudden the shouts from the police officers, just "get out of here." you knew it was not a drill. >> have you had issues in the past with people coming in, people that were suspicious in anyway or did anything that caused you to be concerned? >> no, we've never had any threats. i will tell you -- i've always had a very watchful eye because of what's going on in the current climate, you know, you see these bombs being mailed across the country. and our security was really just that nobody's ever tried, you know, it was just the fact that nobody ever tried to do anything. because, you know, like most religious institutions, we have an open door. >> i asked the ceo of the jewish federation i'll ask you. can you describe for people that are watching that aren't from pittsburgh that tonight know squirrel hill what this means that they would be targeted in this manner? >> just means that moving forward, this is a real occurrence and that we need to learn from this. you want to be proactive and do things -- in light of this happening, it will be needed for security i'm sure. because this is reality. >> you're glad, if you hadn't done that one thing, which many would think is a simple security measure, who knows how many people used those exit doors to get out. >> right. it was something that i was listening to the walk-through, i was listening to the homeland security experts. a lot of this comes down to ability to afford security. but to free up a door many times is free. just use it. and it doesn't cost anything. and we did it. and a guy that we love in the c cong congragation, you know, augie could be alive because of it. >> and he was not in the basement. are there ways to get out of the basement? >> there are, yes. yes, their are. new life congregation, their sanctuary is in the lower floor, they know the route to get out. >> what's next for you? >> next for me is going to be more training, saying this -- it's not that when i would get up as president in front of leadership saying this could happen, now it's like this did happen. we have to put forth efforts to secure our building and the other leaderships across squirrel hill and across the country are going to have to do the same. >> thank you for taking the time to talk to us. thank you. all right. we're going to send it back. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, again, everyone. thank you for being with us. this breaking news we're going to begin with, a gunman opens fire in a synagogue in pittsburgh. officials report 12 casualties and at least four dead. cnn's nick valencia is tracking the story for us. what are you learning? >> so disturbing. how many times have we reported on similar situations, a mass shooting in an american city, this time in pittsburgh, in the squirrel hill neighborhood, a high concentration of jewish community there in that neighborhood. here's what we know. according to the website for tree of life synagogue, their saturday service, their shabbat service which is the busiest day for any synagogue, started at 9:45 a.m. the fir reports we got here at cnn, reports of an active shooter, came in just after 10:20 this morning. here's what we know at this time. according to our correspondent shimon prokupecz, at least 12 people were shot. what we can confirm is least four people died. at least three police officers injured in gunfire. the extent of their injuries has not been made clear. the shooter we can report is in custody, and according to kdka, that alleged gunman has been described as a white male, a bearded heavy set white male. he is in custody and is currently, at last report, being transported to a hospital with unspecified injuries. this is still a live scene. you're looking at images there on your screen. if it's still an active, chaotic scene there in the squirrel hill neighborhood of pittsburgh. we can only assume that police are continuing to sweep the area for other potential threats, perhaps even devices in that general vicinity. the president has tweeted about the incident. the vice president and the governor of pennsylvania, we understand, is en route. we just heard from the past president of the tree of life synagogue saying there are three competing services happening on saturday around 9:45 and upwards -- or nearly 100 people could have been in the building at the time of the shooting. again, this is all still a very fluid situation here. a very chaotic scene. another scary day here in america, fredricka. >> all right, thank you so much. we'll check back with you. let's talk more about all this. i want to bring in retired fbi supervisory special agent. former u.s. art marshal, art rodd rodderic. and former secret service a gent and department of homeland security official charles marino. glad all you could be with me. we just heard, you know, information coming from our sources. 12 shot. 4 confirmed dead. among the injured are three police officers. and so, james, does this tell you that there was an exchange perhaps of gunfire between this gunman who authorities say is now in custody and these at least three officers injured? >> absolutely. we have somebody who has committed murder, attempted murder and assaulted police officers and responding law enforcement. people have been texting and saying, you know, who has purview here. would fbi have oversight for something like this. as we were watching the feed there, i can tell you, i saw robert jones who's the fbi special agent in charge of the pittsburgh division on scene. he's the former assistant director of the branch at headquarters. the fbi will assist in this case until there's a determination which we're probably moving that direction that this could possibly be a hate crime. these are murders. obviously these are state charges. the police, it's their scene right now. the fbi will offer whatever type of response capabilities, investigative capabilities, for processing any type of evidence going forward. they're going to be working a collaborative effort right now until we determine what type of charges are going to be leveled against this gunman. >> you have multiple things going on. you have the investigation of the who, the what happened, the eagainst of events and of course anything that may have preceded what took place today. all at the same time. but what we heard from the former president of the tree of life synagogue who says just in recent years did they take action to have more exits, at the same time open doors, it's a place of worship. they want to welcome everyone to come in. only on special, you know, high religious holidays would they have security at the door. so today may have been a very porous day where everyone is welcome. how will investigators approach that, knowing there's so many ways of entry and exit? >> many religions have open door policies which means they welcome people to worship, particularly during the saturday morning service. i think local law enforcement and various communities around the country work with the fbi and work together to try to ascertain specific threats against specific synagogues. as i mentioned earlier, the percentage of anti-semitic attacks have gone up significantly. in 2017, we had 12 anti-semitic attacks in the state of new york alone. every synagogue has a security team regularly assessing what that threat environment looks like. interacting with local law enforcement in their community to ascertain what the threat level looks like who, i would imagine, james, are in touch with the fbi to track hate crime threat reporting. >> and evy, you know, while we heard from the former president who said, you know -- or evy, whether, while we heard from the former president earlier who said he worked with homeland security on advice on how to protect this place of worship, yet at the same time, you know, honor the open door policy allowing people in. how will investigators go about trying to see whether there's any correlation between what happened today and the shooter's acts today, whether there were any threats ahead of what happened today. if there's any history with the suspected gunman or gunmen, plural? >> they're going to look at that, but i think the most important thing to really look at here is that sometimes you don't need a threat. sometimes there is no warning. he had actually worked with security. i think that's important. so reaching out to local authorities. saying hey, you know what, we're calling from a church or synagogue or school, wherever you are, and asking them, inviting them over, will you come over and speak to us about this and will you speak to our staff about this. this way, everybody is trained. something as simple as making sure your emergency doors work can save lives. it's not just one door. know where multiple doors are. walk those doors. teaching them what's cover, what's concealment. that way, when you're an environment and something does happen, you can respond. you don't have the time to stop and think what do i do. because those seconds count. those seconds matter. it's super important for these communities. invite them, create relationships with them. also, they can train them what to look for. anything odd or any suspicious behavior or anything that might seem, you know, concerning. when you create this relationship, everybody can work collaboratively together. because i think what we've been doing historically is putting the onus on law enforcement. law enforcement can solve this problem. law enforcement can figure this out. and we can't do that because law enforcement is most situations a reactive part of this. the problem happens, they try to get there as quickly as possible. we need to shift as we're seeing more mass shootings historically happen, we need to shift that perspective and say what can we do collectively to be proactive and try to mitigate or prevent them. >> and, art, while police say this is an active shooter scene, even though they have one suspected gunman in custody, what's the level of questioning, what kind of access what kind of information potentially can they get out of this suspect before they leave the scene, before they say all clear? >> yes, they're in the phase now of making sure that the scene is safe so there's a couple different things going on. not only are they clearing the facility, the synagogue, but also the parking lot surrounding it, and any neighboring houses to make sure everybody's accounted for and this individual was acting alone. they're also questioning him, as jim mentioned earlier, you know, we've been talking about this public safety issue. as we did with the mail bomber. but, you know, they want to make sure this individual acted alone. that there was no other people helping him out. and that, you know, the area is safe. and one other comment on the top of the hour, evy was talking about the same thing, about the security surveys. both with my time with the department of security and the department of justice as a u.s. marshal, we did these security surveys all the time for places of worship. and that is key. because these surveys will talk about issues of exit doors, surveillance cameras, actual security at these facilities. it's incumbent upon these places of worship and schools to reach out to local law enforcement or to federal law enforcement when you get the surveys done. >> charles, what about resources? this happens when already the country, law enforcement, so many divisions, on heightened alert as a result of the 13, you know, pipe bombs that have been mailed across the country to a variety of people including, you know, former presidents. so now you've got according to james' information a little bit earlier, you've got new york authorities who have now descended on protecting a number of synagogues throughout the city as a result of this shooting taking place in pittsburgh. talk to me about how resources are being fanned out, how multitasking, you know, is the real challenge today. >> good morning. thank you for the question and, you know, my thoughts and prayers go out to everybody affected by this event. and thanks to law enforcement for doing an excellent job. resores certainly are an important issue for local law enforcement. i think in the mail bombing case, you saw a perfect example of a prioritization where they needed to find this individual. you saw the joint terrorism task force with all of its resources. the investigation goes upon which is requiring resources. those resources will be brought to bear to see this through to a final resolution. in this case here, evy brought up a good point about coordination with local authorities. local authorities are very well trained regarding what types of resources to respond with dependent on the situation. here, it cannot be stated enough that the training and preparation and early engagement by many jewish organizations with the department of homeland security, many, many years ago, being aware of this very real threat that they face at their synagogues and other places of worship, were prepared with how to survive this type of event. at the end of this, it's going to be very interesting to find out how many lives were saved because of their preparation and practice for this type of event. but law enforcement is certainly there with the numbers that are necessary to stop the threat. >> josh campbell, cnn law enforcement analyst and former fbi supervisory special agent, has also joined the table here. you know, josh this is an immediate priority, simultaneous to the immediate priority of all these packages that have been mailed out which investigators continue to look at, as they have a suspect. we just heard from the fbi director wray who said yesterday don't be surprised if there might be other packages out there. so how simultaneously are these investigators happening separately? at the same time, perhaps there may even be, you know, a crossing of resources. >> the fbi has 56 field offices around the country. some 400 satellite offices. they're called residential agencies. these are the offices and communities around the country with the agents who work with state officials. they're used to working in their do main. what would happen here is authorities in pittsburgh in the field office will be working with their counterparts locally. that information is shared to larger networks around basically it's been set up where if you have information, you can blast that out to partners. you want to know if they know anything that might be helpful to you. that's all going on right now. lastly, there are so many resources that are available to law enforcement. it's what they call mutual aid. if something happened in one location, officers can ask for assistance. i'm not so much concerned with the lack of resources. one thing that's interesting is if you're back at fbi headquarters right now and the department of justice, this is the central nervous system. you are monitoring both of these threats. as we speak right now, i have no doubt that cnn is in the strategic operations center and they're seeing what's happening on the ground, they're communicating with officers. trying to get that picture. very much an all hands on deck approach to be able to cover two high-profile incidents at the same time. >> sam, take us to the scene of what's taking place. while authorities say they have one person in custody, we don't know if that person is cooperating, providing any more information about digital footprint, about whether that person was working in concert with anybody else. at the same time, there's the immediacy of attending to the injured. we know there are 12 people shot. 4 dead. those are the latest numbers. authorities of course don't want those numbers of fatalities to rise. >> anybody that's injured is stabilized. they're going to take care of that first. james, you mentioned this earlier, they're also going to make sure whomever is coming out of this building is not implicated in the crime. those things can happen at the same time. while simultaneously trying to make sure this wasn't an isolated incident. we don't know this individual was in touch with anybody else or whether he inspired any other attacks around the country. we talked about that with respect to the bombing suspect and whether he inspired copycat attacks. this is a massive media event. i would imagine the fbi in coordination with local law enforcement around the country is advising folks on the ground to make sure no threats come up over the next hours as members of the jewish community participate in afternoon services on shabbat and other members of religious communities are also worshipping. if this is defined as a hate crime, also implicates other places of worship as well, i would imagine authorityings are coordinating again about any threats that come up. >> the digital footprint, you brought that up earlier, so important in investigating today. not just trying to understand the history. but sometimes it also raises a flag of what might be planned next. so -- >> within mere moments yesterday of mr. sayic's name being released to the public, we already had through alexis and nexus checks his bankruptcy filing. we had pictures of him, his social media platform. cnn was able to pull him out of a crowd in a rally and isolate that image. the digital footprint here is critical. goes back to motivation. we look at this. the pieces seem to fall into place. who were the victims. who were the people that were targeted. but people expressing the past week during this bombing square, law enforcement got to keep an open mind on this. law enforcement got to make sure they don't get so hyper focussed in one direction they close their bandwidth down and don't take everything into account. that's why profiling has become that for law enforcement. we want to make sure, look, active shooters, 4% of them are women, but immediately you're not going to rule that out and say this couldn't be. you've got to make sure you keep everything in play and follow the evidence wherever it takes you. >> so evy while this was an active shooter scene right now, one person, according to authorities, is still -- or is in custody. can you explain for us what are law enforcement looking for? before they feel certain that they can give it an all clear? because the threat, the immediate threat, is over in that neighborhood. >> they're going to want to try to speak to him. hopefully he's willing to talk. that's the most important thing, asking him those questions right off the bat, who's working with you. are there any bombs. are there any other guns? just those immediate things. if he's speaking, that will be helpful to law enforcement. at the same type, you have to cooperate what he's saying, because obviously this is an individual who just opened fire. you can't take what they say also as the truth. getting that information verbally from him, trying to asset if there are other people involved, going around the areas, securing the area, finding out where he lives, his residency. they immediately want to go there, assess the environment, looking at the dimg tall footprints, looking at who he's talking to, contacting family and friends, doing all these things. you don't want to leave the scene until you really know what's going on and you feel comfortable leaving the scene. so them staying there and taking their time is a wise thing because they're trying to make sure they check all those boxes, not make it -- you can't make any assumptions, right? you can't assume, okay, we've got him, good. also, how many weapons did he have? did he have any explosive devices? if you're looking at a large amount, there might be a question, well, did he get resources? did someone else help him? any other individuals involved? once you can say with some level of certainty, okay, we can remove, it's also rendering the area safe. this is a residential area. people live there. before law enforcement takings that huge printout, there's all these personnel. they want to make sure everybody else there is also safe. so it's not just securing him but securing the area and the people that live there. >> right. multiple teams had fanned out. josh. >> we can't underscore the potential value here, having a subject that's been taken alive. sometimes in there's an exchange of gunfire, a shooter will be neutralized. if they're able to take him into custody, now they can interview him. a dead body doesn't speak. >> it's almost a priority to see if you can extrapolate more information? >> the focus of law enforcement officers will be to neutralize the threat. they're not going to go into the scene thinking let's try to take this person alive. their main focus is does this person pose a threat. i'm saying this is a benefit of having someone you can then interview. you can ask, why were you doing what you were doing? some people are proud of what they've done and they want to tell you about it. other people may clam up. other people may regret the decisions they've made. some people might lawyer up. it's a potential value to be able to ask questions. >> might it also be on display this is a particularly combative individual if we're talking about three police officers that were shot. >> the problem with these active shooter situations, the person committing them is some type of zealot or crazy person, going in there with the notion they're going to take their own life. that makes it very difficult. look where we are, just over a year from the law enforcement shooter. we still don't have answers there. why? he killed himself. had no digital footprint. and we're still struggling to piece it together. people argue and say why are you so focused on the motivation? well, it's causality. it helps us get in front of hopefully preventing the next one. a year ago, the attack in lower manhattan a few blocks from here. new york city decided to put up concrete blocks around the bike path. it's awful to say this in a free and open society where we cherish our civil liberties. but these are soft targets. and people are looking at them as such and going, maybe i can't get away with this at the airport. i can't take out my vengeance at the fed or museum where there's security but maybe i can walk into a house of worship or school or some place that doesn't have adequate security. >> this is terrorism in so many different ways. all right, moments ago, the former rabbi of tree of life synagogue, chuck diamond, spoke to reporters and he had this to say. >> 9:45. so jews come late to services so for a lot of people that's probably a good thing today. at the time, there's three services in the building. there's maybe 10 to 15 i would say for each service possibly at that time. people would be in the outer area. maybe just coming in. there are a few staff people who might be greeting people. >> is one entrance on -- >> on shabbat, there's no security. i have to tell you, i always in the back of my mind had something like this might happen, you know, because of the way of the world today. >> one of the past presidents, michael eisenberg, told us he did conduct training. >> yes. >> including homeland security. >> yes, people came in, sponsored by the jewish community -- the federation of pittsburgh. has a very active program. >> what kind of training did they go into in. >> well, i tell you, i wasn't there for that particular training. but it's something, again, as a jewish professional, what's going on in the world, even though we've been fairly safe here in pittsburgh. it's just something in the back of your mind to see somebody -- i once had during the rmgs school time, religious school time, somebody pulled up in a long trench coat and went to go to the trunk of his car. i knew him, but i went out to check it out just to make sure. you just always have to be careful. i got a call from an old congregant who said what they heard -- i'm concerned -- i'm concerned about the people who were the early -- the people who came on type. most of them were older. and i just talked to one of their sons who doesn't know where his mother is. it's a concern. >> so many people showing up, not knowing if their loved one is all right. >> right. >> what is your words for them? >> just have some faith and hang in there and try to be of comfort for them. it's a very difficult time for all of us. for everybody. but for those who knew people who were there. i called people i knew trying to see if they're okay, you know, and one is a doctor and he said he saw somebody's name on the list who was taken to the emergency room who, again, was one of those people who was always there on time. >> have you talked to the con a congregation about what if this happens? >> no. i had in my mind what i would do in helping people. it's kind of frustrating, you know, in some ways wish you were there to help people. you always think, like, you can be of help to some degree. i worked in a synagogue in detroit, michigan -- i wasn't there in 1962, but a rabbi was killed by somebody who came in and -- >> we're hearing unconfirmed reports this was fuelled by hate. >> that's what it sounds like. there's a lot of anti-semitism out there and a lot of hate out there. just look in the news everyday. it's sobering that it's touched our community. i've gotten text from people from india, from canada. wanting to know if everybody is okay. >> the man who is the past president says now instead of saying what if it happens, it did happen and hopefully get more done. >> during the week, the doors are locked. on shabbat, it's a little bit more of a chore because you don't necessarily have anybody in the office. to let people in. we can't let that happen. we have to take all precautions at all times unfortunately. >> have you been able to reach anybody you know who may have been in there? >> one person who was always on time with his son coming in from sewikly said he got caught up in traffic. he said, i'm going to services. the police said no, you're not. and he went home. >> describe the jewish community in squirrel hill. >> it's a really nice -- i grew up here. i live right there, around the block. the house that i grew up in. and it's a wonderful jewish community. there's -- i think we all get together across the board whether it's orthodox or hasidic or conservative or reform. and we have wonderful jewish community centers. it's very vibrant, very active. >> do you know if any children -- >> all right, we're listening to the former rabbi saying it's a very sobering day. a lot now has to be reconsidered. he too recalls it being an open door policy at that church and says security was not something that would generally happen. high level security on shabbat. all of that now he says has to be reconsidered. so, again, active shooter scene there in pittsburgh, in this community, even though one person is in custody. meantime, we just got in this tweet from the president. this, now, perhaps his third tweet of the morning in respect to what's happening in pittsburgh. saying this now, events in pittsburgh are far more %-p. spoke with mayor and governor to inform them that the federal government has been and will be with them all the way. you're looking at a very rainy situation there at andrews. where the president's motorcade on the way before the president boards air force one. perhaps he'll have more comments. it's always an opportunity that reporters try to take. but given very rainy, nasty situation, who knows how difficult that will be. but of course we're on it. meantime, we're going to continue to talk here with my panel. shimon prokupecz, cnn crime and justice reporter. it was through your sources we learned 12 people were shot, a confirmation of 4 people dead. what are your sources telling you now? >> i think we need to be clear to viewers, there are no other shooters at this point, they believe they have the one person responsible for this in custody. law enforcement there is going through the building. there are several floors in the building. they're going through. there was some suspicious packages. we'll probably get an all clear here pretty soon. they've gone through the building. we do expect the scene to open up for investigators to come in and start processing the crime scene. the other things we learned is that the shooter here, during th uttered anti-jewish phrases. certainly why police were taken him into custody. clearly this is now developing into obviously some kind of hate crime. so we'd likely see the fbi come in and take over the investigation. >> let's listen in right now. >> be speaking, making a statement at the farmers of america. future farmers that have the big conference. we'll be making a major statement. it's a terrible, terrible thing what's going on with hate in our country frankly and all over the world. and something has to be done. something has to be done. it looks like results are coming in, they're more devastating than anybody thought in the morning. in the morning they thought it was the shooter but they had the shooter, they soon would, but the results are very devastating. you're seeing the numbers come in. so we'll be speaking to you at the conference, the future farmers of america, conference, and it's just a shame to watch this, to see this. for so many years, so much of it, absolutely a shame. have any questions? >> mr. president do you think you need to revisit gun laws? >> please? >> gun laws, mr. president. gun laws. >> well, again, this has little to do with it if you take a look. if they had protection inside the results would have been far better. this is a dispute that will always exist i suspect. if they had some kind of protection inside the temple, maybe it could have been a very much different situation. they didn't. and he was able to do things that unfortunately he shouldn't have been able to do. i hear the police were outstanding. i hear the police did an incredible job. as you know, numerous police were badly injured. but, again, law enforcement did a fantastic job. we're going to have a very complete statement for you. results are coming in of what took place, how it took place. again, law enforcement was outstanding. as always. i mean, as usual, and as always, law enforcement was really outstanding. they stepped up to the place. but pittsburgh, great community, incredible people. i spoke to the governor. i spoke to the mayor. to see this happening again and again and again is just a shame. >> mr. president -- >> -- instead of seeing it happen again and again, end this kind of violence? >> well, it's a violence -- you look at the violence all over the world. i mean, the world has violence. the world is a violent world. and you think when you're over it, it just sort of goes away, but then it comes back in the form of a mad man, a whacko. i think one thing we should do is stiffen up laws in terms of the death penalty. when people do this, they should get the death penalty and shouldn't have to wait years and years. now the laws lawyers will get involved and everybody's going to get involved and we'll be ten years down the line. i think they should stiffen up laws and i think they should very much bring the death penalty into vogue. anybody who does a thing like this to innocent people in temple, in church. we had so many incidents with churches. they should be -- they should really suffer the ultimate price. they should pay the ultimate price. i felt that way for a long time. some people disagree with me. i can't imagine why. this has to stop. we're going to have a statement at our stop with the young farmers. >> towards the beginning of your presidency, you met with the nra. you said maybe you were the president who can help solve this. do you see that now as a possibility? >> it's a case where -- again, nobody knows exactly what took place yet. it's too soon. this is a case where they had an armed guard inside, they might have been able to stop him immediately. this had been a case where if there were an armed guard inside the temple, they would have been able to stop them. maybe there would have been nobody killed except for him frankly. so it's a very, very -- very difficult situation. when you look at it, we can look at it two ways. again, if he had somebody to protect people. now, isn't it a shame you even have to speak that way? that we even have to think of that inside a temple or inside of a church? but certainly the results might have been far better. >> do you think al churches and synagogues should have armed guards? >> i hate to think of it that way. i will say that. so we'll see you with the future farmers. >> is that what you're suggesting? >> i mean, in this world, this is a world with a lot of problems. and it has been a world with a lot of problems for many years. many, many years. you could say, frankly, for many centuries. you're looking at what goes on, but certainly you want protection. they didn't have any protection. they had a maniac walk in. they didn't have any protection. that is just so sad to see. so sad to see. results could have been much better. it is a very, very difficult thing. for me, as president, to watch any of this go, you know, before i ran for office, i'd watch incidents like this with churches and other things and think, what a shame, what a shame. but it's even tougher when you're the president of the united states and you have to watch this kind of a thing happen. it is so sad to see. so we'll see you at the -- with the young fampl rmers. >> do you think there's anything you can do with the nra? >> we're always talking. we're always talking to the -- >> all right, the president on his way to air force one there, on his way to the future farmers of america. before that, taking a moment there to answer questions from reports there with a variety of thoughts on the shooting that has taken place in pittsburgh. everything from the world is a violent world, saying perhaps what needs to be intentertained stiffer laws on the death penalty. bring the death penalty into vogue he says. he also says, you know, it's a case where no one knows. however, he also said if perhaps there was an armed guard inside the synagogue, they would have been able to stop him. meaning the one gunman that we understand at least is in custody right now. all right, back with me now. with my panel here. josh, sam. and shimon. sam, your first reaction there right? the president focusing not just on the consequences and not necessarily drilling down on the causation. you know, he did start out talking about, you know, this being a display of hate. but then went to stiffer laws. your thoughts? >> i think it's irresponsible. this is a live investigation. he made statements at the beginning this was far more devastating than he previously thought. we don't know exactly what he was briefed on. there is still people that have not been able to get in touch with their family members. there's still people waiting to hear if their relatives, if their children, if their parents may have been involved in this incident. saying it's more devastating than originally thought, i can't imagine how that must feel. this was his greatest hits. he went to everything he typically does in this situation. the death penalty. arming more people to prevent gun violence. going back to this notion this isn't the result of a narrative under way in america. this isn't the result of a hateful rhetoric increasing in this juncture. he's looking to point fingers. again, while this is an ongoing investigation and we don't have a whole lot of information yet. >> people are looking to the president to then address a causation of hate. this is a place of worship. and someone has gone into i place of worship, disrupted peace, killed, injured. people are looking for the president to talk about, you know, how do we get to unifying some kind of, you know, bringing people together message, josh? >> that's right. what we saw there makes it harder for law enforcement. when there's a major incident, the law enforcement community will reluctantly share information. they'll only share so much -- as much as they need to to inform the public about a threat. to let them know, okay, they're on the case. the reason why it gets frustrated now, to get information, is because they really hold that close to the vest because they don't want to speculate. they want to get the facts straight. i remember a number of these incidents where we're thinking, okay, we're pretty sure if this is the case. until we know what the truth is, law enforcement isn't going to go out there and speculate. we saw the opposite just now. and that's what's unfortunate here. i know working with teams under president george w. bush, under president obama, the white house teams, any time the president would step to the mic, they would have a reason, a message. determine what do they need to tell the american people because their words matter. i don't know if there was a strategy behind that but there was speculation. he's the commander in chief. he can say whatever he wants. law enforcement isn't going to overrule him. it's just fascinating to see that speculation about what's happened here. >> however, though, he has been breech briefed. >> he said we're learning more -- >> i think he's learned more -- >> loosely he says that. >> it is challenging because he -- instead of uniting folks and saying, you know, we'll get through this rt, we're coming oa pretty scary week in this country -- >> and still in the midst of. >> for law enforcement this is a very perilous time. when you talk to senior law enforcement officials, they will tell you what we're facing and what we're seeing on the threat stream, it's really scary what's going on. >> why you are making that point, year beiwe're looking at images. this is a large sin goynagogue e squirrel hill neighborhood. this is where a shooting took place earlier today. not long after services were to get under way. we understand they were going to be -- they were probably simultaneous at least three services taking place in this very sizable synagogue. police have said sources that shimon has spoke within confirming 12 people shot. three officers shot and four people had been killed. so continue with your thoughts. >> just to get back to that scene. to get back to what's going on. police have spent sort of the last several hours, couple of hours, going through, floor by floor, of this synagogue. they came across some suspicious packages. some stuff belonging to him. medical bags as well. obviously they were treating the injured. they don't believe there are any bombs or explosives inside the building. we should be seeing them exit the building where investigators are processing the crime scene. >> that makes it difficult, too. a shooting takes place. people drop what they have. their purses, they drop, they run, et cetera. they might be looking for a bag or anything in association with a suspect, they also have to treat everything, right, everything as potentially suspect. so it takes time. that's why now a couple hours after the fact it is still considered an active scene. >> especially we're hearing reports there may have been a jewish ceremony for newborn boys happening. there may be additional packagings that people brought into that building which would further complicate things. >> if you think about what happened just last week, right where we're seated, we talked a lot about what security officials here are wondering why do you evacuate a building if there's a device somewhere. they have to methodically work through and tick through every squash inch of a facility. a massive compound. they're going to have to go through all that. to your great point, they don't know what's suspicious and what's not. they treat everything suspicious unless they have that comfort level, okay, now we can move on. it shows the taskings, to show up to a situation where you don't know what you're dealing with. >> evy, so as it relates to the president's comments, he was there on the tarmac before getting on to air force one, with a scattering, you know, of thoughts about this investigation. it being, you know, worse than he initially thought. also, you know, going to thoughts of that's why you have to have stiffer laws, death penalty. had there been an armed guard in his view at the synagogue, perhaps this wouldn't be so bad. what's your experience in terms of a president's message, how it can either help or complicate matters? >> i think when he received his briefing and making sure what he does or doesn't address. there's a couple of things. one of the things that concerned me sometimes when i see -- when we go on air, we discuss these things, is when people address these shooters as crazies. and when we take -- >> and the president used that word, you know, a world of -- this is a world that is a violent world. and you have whackos. >> right. so the concern with that is when we put people in these boxes, we're not solving the problem. the capital punishment, that's after the fact. when people commit these egregious crimes, the more severe punishment will not help. but identifying individuals and labbi inlabeling them as such it going to be able to help us. but being able to understand why individuals do this, understanding who he is, is there a mystery of mental health? is there hate? what has happened in that person's life? if we can gather knowledge and identify the people who do this, understand the profiles. are there profiles? are there patterns? and then create a society where we can prevent this type of stuff. so calling people names or calling people crazy or whacko, that doesn't help. you're just putting somebody in that random category. as far as having somebody at the front door, security, you can have that. what i've learned -- i do a lot of schools and religious places reach out to me and they will ask me, they'll tell me, what do we do? one of the biggest problems they have is money. they cannot afford to pay somebody to stand by that door all the time. resources is a big problem. we also see in this incident there was, what, three officers so far from what we understand were injured. they had a problem probably with this individual and were injured during a gunfight. having that security personnel, church, synagogue, school, any other soft target, that's a big undertaking. >> yes, it is. well, you know, on the issue of security, we've heard a few different things. even a member of that synagogue. all saying there have been in the past some threats, anti-semitic behavior. we also heard the thought that police presence only takes place on high religious holidays. on a day like this, a regular saturday services, they don't have the same kind of intensified police security. but we do know, you know, across country at some synagogues we're learning right now as a result of what's taking place, they are heightening security. is there a regular practice perhaps at many synagogues across the country, given there has been a history of anti-semitic behavior, you know, from coast to coast? and we heard from the former president of this synagogue who said he consulted with homeland security about the best measures to put in place. >> the president was right about one thing. that is anti-semitism and hate crimes are not new. i think he'd be hard pressed to find a jew or another member of a religious group that hasn't been some kind of hate crime. most synagogues around the country are aware of the toxic environment against the jewish community. very regularly share information with local law enforcement. certain synagogues have law enforcement, direct law enforcement relationships and even have security guards at the door. i belong to a synagogue. it has security personnel on the high holy days. we don't know exactly what happened at this synagogue. true security guards with pistols even at the door of a synagogue are going to have a hard time working against a man with an ar-15 or assault rifle. i don't know it is on the synagogue to really work better with local law enforcement. >> security doesn't always mean what you see either. >> correct. josh can speak to that i'm sure. the direct relationship between local law enforcement is even more important today. >> yes, it is a reality in the united states. this is very unfortunate. as somebody who worked with different community groups. the religious community is different when it comes to how they look at security. it shows you when an incident like this happens in one location, it still terrorizes people. i look at this, it's hard to disassociate yourself. i go to protestant church. there's not an armed security guard. they're not constantly getting threats. there are security that rove around obviously, you know, we're in a heightened state -- >> there's a presumption of safety. >> correct. you're exactly right. unfortunately for the jewish community in the united states, security is a main stay. it is part of going to synagogue. i can tell you walking around los angeles, you see synagogues, you see a large security presence outside. you just can't forget what that means to people to know that i can't even go in to this facility to practice my faith and my work without always having to keep in the back of my mind, as a very real reminder in front of me, that i'm under a threat. law enforcement and the jewish community, they're synced up across the nation. they share information. they share best practices. it's this reality. it's disheartening. sad when incidents like this happen. >> evy are you still there? >> one thing i want to jump on regarding what josh is saying, security and law enforcement, two different things. you can have security guards or people there. it doesn't always mean there's going to be armed. you don't know what their level of training is. here we have three officers who triy eied to deal with this individual and got injured. you don't know what level of training they have. you don't know how good they are. you don't know if they can run from -- i've seen some security people in some places where i don't know if they can run from one corner of the block to another. so there's also that. security, law enforcement, they're not the same thing. just because you put somebody there who's got, you know, a uniform on doesn't mean they're going to be able to deal with the situation. >> right. i stink instincts are different. >> right, in orlando, there was a police officer out there who was overpowered by the shooter who was using high-powered weapons. that could be what happened here. there are some indications he was using high-powered weapon here. even if there was an armed guard there, what is one armed guard -- >> look, these situations are -- >> they're very different. >> there may be some common threads but there's no framework for terrorism. >> if someone wants to do something like this, there's really nothing anyone can do to stop. no matter how much security you have. the concern always is, as we hear, like, did someone know something about this individual and didn't come forward? did someone know that he was about to do this, that he was planning, that he had these weapons, he had these anti-jewish views? we'll see if that's the case and if someone didn't come forward or was this guy in hiding and planning this on his own. those are the things that usually prevent these kinds of attacks. once someone gets ready to do something like this and, you know, josh can certainly speak to this better than i can, there's nothing you can do to stop them. the idea there may be -- whethers thewhether s there was an armed guard or not. we should be focusing on the people who are injured. the people are now suffer, the families. on a saturday, it's -- it's the sabbath. like you're in there to pray. to be with your family. yes. this should not happen, right? that's the larger question here. in terms of what is going on. if this continues and just t continues to happen. that's something we should remember law enforcement is facing. this is a big problem. >> there are multiple hallmarks of terrorism, hate-filled acts like this. clearly no singular -- >> i have to go, i'm sorry. >> we got you, evy, thank you so much. no singular framework for something as heinous as this. again this is still an active live shooter scene. even though one person is in custody. law enforcement remains there at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. we'll be right back. ♪ eastbound and down. ♪ loaded up and truckin'. ♪ are we gonna do what they say can't be done? 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