protesters probably 40 police officers left at this time. we're thinking it's thinning out. at 12:00 a.m. we hear three shots, three or four shots ring out. some of you have seen that on the media. these are shots that aren't in the air, not in the ground. one way you can tell when you listen to the audio you can actually hear those shots singing. those shots immediately strike two officers standing next to each oefrmt i would like to underscore that these officers are also standing in a line of at least 20 to 25 officers. we have a group of officers standing there. it's very evident we have a group of officers standing there. the webster groves officer is shot right here high point of the cheek, right under the right eye. the bullet lodges right behind his ear. that bullet is still with him. he's going to have to have further evaluation to figure out what they're going to do with that round. the st. louis county officer was struck right here on the shoulder and the bullet came out the middle of his right back between his scapula and his spine. fortunately for both officers we don't have any remarkable long-term injuries. in other words, there wasn't in somebody's brain or heart or anything like this. any time you're shot in the face and have a bullet lodged in your head any time you have a through-and-through wound where the bullet enters your shoulder and konls out the middle of your right back those are hard hits. we're lucky, by god's grace, we didn't lose two officers last night. so one of the things that i've talked ability is that we do need to understand and we certainly understand it as a police department and as law enforcement, that we have an obligation to make sure that folks that want to express their first amendment rights have the ability to do that. but when you look at the tenor of at least some of the people that are involved in the protests or civil unrest it at times can be very troubling. it's difficult for the officers to discern within a crowd of folks that are perhaps there for the right reason exactly who is doing what. one of the problems we have is similar to last night, i would have to imagine that these protesters were among the shooters who shot at the police officers. for the police officers that are standing there and really don't have the ability at nighttime to understand what they're looking at. it's dark. there's a whole lot of people out there, there's a lot of noise. it's very difficult for the officers to really understand what they're looking at at the time and to be able to evaluate any type of threats. so i would just tell you that you need to understand that. i think it's a miracle that we haven't had any instances similar to this over the summer and fall with the amount of gunfire that we would hear that i personally heard last summer and fall i think it's a miracle we haven't had something like this happen. i think we're very fortunate that that has happened. i'd also like to point out that my officers tell me that when this happened when they heard the shots and when they heard the bullets singing past they saw muzzle flashes. these muzzle flashes were probably about 125 yards away. many officers drew their weapons but no officers fired. what if we're in a situation where it's 25 or 50 yards away a threat right in front of you that can be engaged except we're around a situation where perhaps 30 50 60 70 people are around? we really need to understand the dangers of this. i'm not blaming anybody other than the individuals that took a shot at my officers and hit them. but i am telling you that these are situations that it's very difficult for us to navigate through if you're a police officer on the street and you're doing everything you can to protect people's first amendment rights everything you can to protect other people's rights that may be traveling through the area anything you can be doing to protect life and property. this is another layer that makes it very difficult for our police officers out there to deal with. i hope people understand that. it's a very tricky line for us to be able to walk. ladies and gentlemen, we were very close to having happen what happened in nypd with officer ramos. we could have buried two police officers over there. i didn't really expect the amount of agitation at times that we saw last night out of the crowd based on the news that happened yesterday, and not everybody there expressed agitation. but we certainly are always cautious but i didn't expect obviously either that we would have two police officers shot last night. one of the officers from st. louis county is a 41-year-old, a 14-year veteran of law enforcement, the webster groves officer is 32 years old and is a five-year veteran of law enforcement. i'll answer questions that you have. >> any update on the suspects who did this who you are potentially looking for? >> we have some perhaps leaves on that. i'm going to leave that alone at the time let the detectives work. they're still out in the field right now. in fact the lieutenant the sergeant and his staff have still not had time to come in to clayton and even brief me. we have talked to them on the phone. as you might imagine, this is the number wurn priority of the st. louis county police department, to identify these individuals. that individual or individuals who shot our police officers. >> but no one is in custody this. >> no, ma'am. >> shot was 125 yards away what degree drooe of confidence can you have it was associated with the protest rather than taking protest as an opportunity to try to shoot a cop? >> i talked to my staff about that in detail because i had the same question about why this is. there are indications that would lead us to believe that obviously some of the folks that were there to participate last night, in expressing their opinions they were spread over a wider area than just confined and that did extend not only to the north and the south, but also to the west. i feel very confident that whoever did this was there for the wrong reason, not the right reason and came there for whatever nefarious reason it was. i do feel like there was an unfortunate association with that gathering. >> chief, you mentioned kind of this almost impossible task when you have officers standing on a line almost like sitting ducks and you have folks protesting. have you thought yet about how you're going to go about this differently? is there anything at all you can do differently, and also can you speak to the concern from law enforcement's part that you don't want any of your officers to be too aggressive too quick to react? >> i will back up to the last part of that question. i sent a text last night out to two of my senior staff members, two of my lieutenant colonels that said listen our bearing is to be very measured. we want to make sure we don't cross that line and do anything we shouldn't be doing as law enforcement and we protect those people's rights. how is it going to look differently? we have experience in running some of the operations last fall and during the grand jury verdict and before and different things like that. we're going to be exploring avenues to perhaps readopt those plans that we have. one of the things with the code 1000 plan that calls the closest 25 cars in and maybe a code 2000 that causes another 25 to come that's not a plan. that's reactive. i think it's incumbent upon myself as the chief to make sure we come up with a plan to protect the community and also protect the police officers out there. >> is the county -- is there a chance for existing ferguson police officers and staff to go under the county umbrella at this point? >> i guess there's that chance out there. i think the better way to answer that question is, had we not been in any official talks with ferguson regarding that issue, and as the police chief of st. louis county, i have an obligation to make sure that no resident in st. louis county is without competent law enforcement and that the police department has to make sure we provide that to anywhere in the county to include ferguson. i had a question over here. >> do you expect sending any more officers out tonight? >> i do. i don't know if we'll have any issues tonight. but please remember we have a responsibility. these officers took an oath to protect life and property. these are some of the things that we're expected to do. it's unfortunate when these things happen. law enforcement is at times a very dangerous proposition. but it's incumbent upon me and my staff to make sure we're doing things to where we give our officers the best chance to succeed all the aaround. >> [ inaudible ]. >> one of the things i'm anxious to do right now and i've already talked to my staff about it is get some of my community leaders out there to talk to these folks. i think that's critically important. there's been an assertion that perhaps some of the leaders we have don't necessarily have leverage over folks that do certain things. shaechl on us if we don't continue these conversations. those conversations have been on going. as the police chief, it's going to be important to send those community leaders back in in the next day or so at the latest and go hey, listen these are my issues i need to bring you up to speed on this. what ideas do you have as we move forward that can assist the police department and thereby assist the community. that's what we're there for. >> do you happen to know what gun was used in this? >> we feel like it's a pistol a handgun. we recovered some shell casings up in the area. we don't know 100% yet if those are going to be the shell casings that are going to be attributed to this shooting but we do believe it's a handgun based on the way the shots sounded and the injuries to the police officers did not appear to be -- >> have you learned anything from talking to any of the protesters that were there last night about suspects possibly? >> we talked to several people there. that's part of the investigation that i won't go in to. it was certainly an opportunity for us to talk to some folks, and i think there's been -- i think it would not be an overstatement to tell you there has been several people that have been very forthright with the investigation. that's certainly encouraging. >> -- some of the protesters last night say this was a rowdier than normal crowd. can you speak to that? with us was it a more violent crowd than norm snl. >> it was pretty rowdy. some people might have seen the reports of fist fights. we've had nights where it's been much worse. at the end of the day i really did not expect last night when i first started monitoring this that it was going to spin to the extent it did regarding the agitation. so you try to respect those things but sometimes it's very difficult to figure out -- we saw a report about the fact that there were rocks and bottles being thrown. i frankly have not been able to confirm that myself. i don't know if that happened or not. i think it is true that there was agitation within the crowd. >> can the county executive answer any questions about whether there's any conversations with mayor knowles? >> i'll turn it over to the county executive in just a second. first you guys can finish up with me. ma'am? >> you guys have been receiving threats since the summer. is this in line with any of those threats? >> categorize that for me. >> just some of the things we've heard as far as police being threatened actions that people are going to take as revenge, things like this. >> some of this is gathered through intelligence or we hear things or however we were able to glean that information out. but obviously some of the threats are very lurid. there's somebody standing a foot away from an officer that is expressing to them that they would like to do bad things to that police officer. we're certainly well aware of that. again, i think it's incumbent on us to try to do the best we can to craft something to where everything works for everybody and we don't have the issues that spin out of control. the responsibility of last night's shooting lies with whoever did that shoothing. i want to be very clear about that. it is a very difficult environment to work in. >> going back to what you said earlier, at this point what is next? a lot of people want to know what can you do now moving forward? >> we're going to have to take a look at the security plan up there again, similar to what we did last fall. i think that's part of it. i think community engagement is part of it. i also think this has really been in the news cycle a whole lot lately. i understand why. we start off with clark, then it went to two police officers that went to the city manager. now we're dealing with the chief who has stepped down. it just kind of seems like that it's always in the public -- always in somebody's mind right now. so part of this i would hope would get down to where we could continue to have civil discourse about this the right way. i think perhaps only time maybe will satisfy that. we'll have to see. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i would like to tell you i have more confidence in the community than that right now, and i believe that i do. that wouldn't shut the door to the fact that i'm going to certainly ask for assistance manpower assistance regarding helping as we do some things for example, different. but i have to count on my municipalities to be there doing it for the right reasons. i have to be able to count on the highway patrol. as you know my over time bill from aug to the 17th day of december was over $5 million. these are expensive propositions for us. we would certainly -- we need the assistance anywhere we can get it with these very good lrmaw enforcement agencies. >> was last night just a random shooting as much as you can plan. if somebody wants to go on a hill and shoot -- [ inaudible ]. >> you're right. this is really an ambush is what it is. you can't see it coming. you don't understand it's going to happen and you seer basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you at the time. that is something that is very difficult to guard against when you have a group of officers standing together in a large group and you have gunfire, certainly gunfire directed at them. i would like to point out, however, last night, the only gunfire we had was the actual incident where the officers were struck. >> you brought up all the overtime your officers were working and last night being an ambush. can you talk about the morale of the issues? >> i think the morale is pretty good with the officers. i was certainly shaken up about this at midnight when the phone rang. i think it's natural for the officers to be very cautious about their well-being and different things like that. i have a tremendous amount of confidence in st. louis police department as the captain has with the webster groves police department. these guys are out there doing the right things for the right reasons. they understand it's a dangerous job. they need to hold me responsible to make sure i can make it as safe as possible for them. >> is the sld out there looking for weapons in sewers? >> they could be. i can't answer that question right now. captain, do we have anything to display? >> we have photos. [ inaudible ]. >> we had photos from the crime scene. >> i wanted to tell you one of the photos you're going to get is the webster groves officer was wearing a riot helmet. his face mask was up. we have photographs you can look at that basically demonstrates the blood splatter when he was hit in the face that splashes up against that face guard. again, i have all confidence in the community. i understand exercising people's first amendment rights but i'm going to be honest with you, this is beginning at times to be very difficult for any law enforcement agency anywhere to really wrap their arms around. i want everybody here to understand how difficult this is to do it the fact perfect way. very tough. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i did. i talked to both of them. i know captain nelson talked to both of them too. the officers you know both of them had just been shot. they were with their families. it was fortunate the families could be there. they were hanging in there. my officer was in a tremendous amount of pain with that wound going in his shoulder and coming out his back. again, those officers are good guys. i'm proud of them. i'll leave it with that. county executive stanger. >> i'm primarily here just to express our deep support and our concern for the families and the individuals who were shot last night, our officers and the officers of the webster groves police department. i'm free to answer any questions you might have. >> have you had any discussions at all with mr. knowles about the possibility of the county coming in and taking over -- >> i have had multiple discussions with mayor knowles over i'd say a two-week period. certainly that subject has been talked about. i have offered him all of our assistance that we have. as you can see and as you have heard today, we have certainly stood ready and have performed when asked to step in and help out and we'll continue to do that in any capacity needed. >> mr. stanger, as a county executive, what's your expectation now of how, given what's happened last night, what do you hope to see with how law enforcement reacts and conducts themselves? >> i think the way the department conducted themselves was exemplarily. i think they conducted themselves exceptionally in the face of two officers being shot. i trust that will continue. i have full faith it will. that's how it will move forward in the future. >> going back to your discussions with mayor knowles, would you expect to see the tabling of the police in ferguson? >> i'm not going to say i would prefer to see that. i would like to see a solution as we move forward that is in the best interest of the residents of ferguson and our county and our police department. >> county executive, will you please walk us through when you found out and your first initial reactions to what happened last night? >> i got a call from a chief and he briefed me on the incident and i was immediately moved, i was deeply concerned for the officers' well-being. we've stayed in touch throughout the early morning hours leading up to our meeting here today. >> you've spoken to mayor knowles several times in the last two weeks, but have you spoken to him since the shooting last night? >> no. but i intend to this morning. >> what is your message to the people what will you tell them about this moving forward, about this and how they should react? >> i believe that the community along with me is deeply concerned for the welfare of the officers. certainly we'd like to see a safe environment where people can express their first amendment rights. situations like this and incidents like this are extremely unfortunate. we certainly hope we can avoid these in the future. i know our police presidentment and all the other departments involved will see to that. >> specifically, any ramping up of the situation, how are you -- [ inaudible ]. >> we're dealing with many individuals in our community. certainly words can certainly help but these are individual choices that are made and the only thing that i can say is that i, and i believe the rest of the community, wants to see individuals express their first amendment rights in ways that are non-violent and that don't lead to violence and that everybody just needs to keep cool heads. we certainly want to avoid situations like this. >> is there any possibility [ inaudible ]. >> that has not been discussed at this time. >> it seems like over the past week a lot of the news that's come out hopeful that there's going to be change and starting to heal and moving forward peacefully how much of a setback -- >> i don't consider this incident a setback toward healing. i think it's an extremely unfortunate incident. it deals with two particular individuals who were shot two police officers who were shot in the line of their duty. so to that extent i don't believe it's going to affect any healing process that's going on in the community. i think that the community at large is fully supportive of these officers and probably wishes the very best for them. i think everyone with reasonable minds wants to avoid situations like this. >> mr. stenger, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> all right. we're going to jump away from this and talk more about it. first i'd like to welcome our viewers from around the world and bring in missouri state senator, maria chappelle know dal, bernard kerik, former commissioner of the new york police department. welcome to all of you. >> commissioner i'd like to start with you and talk about these officers. the chief outlined their injuries one of them shot in the head right by his right eye, the bullet lodged behind his ear. the police chief i understand mighted the shield over his face protected him somewhat and it's the reason he survived. in fact the st. louis county police department posted these pictures on their facebook page. i want people to take a look right now. can we put those up? you can see the shield and you can see the blood spatters on that shield. the chief made very much of the fact that he wanted people to see these pictures. why do you think that is so commissioner? >> well i think what happens is to the general public i don't think they understand how close these guys came to being killed. that round went in just below his eye and lodged in the back of his ear. had it been off by two inches an inch and a half and hit his brain or in the top two inches, the middle two inches of his forehead, head forehead,'d be dead right now. the other guy hit in shoulder i don't know if he was wearing a vest. had that round dropped two or three inches it could have hit him in the heart or some other vital area where he might have been dead. i think the chief is trying to make people understand the danger that these guys faced. these rounds these shots were unprovoked. they came from an assassin an attempted assassin somewhere 125 yards away. this wasn't random shooting. they were aimed directly at these cops 125 yards is a football field and a quarter away from the cops. this was a direct assault on these cops intended to kill these cops. i think the chief is trying to make that point. >> and he also said commissioner it's very hard to protect yourself. this was an ambush. he wanted the whole community to understand that it would be difficult in future protest scenarios to do things the exact right way. what was he trying to say? >> you know what carol? think back to the early days of the ferguson protests. started out with peaceful protests the officers came in with heavy equipment and armored vehicles. they were criticized. then the aftermath of those protests led to substantial confrontations. the officers have to protect themselves. the officers have to be protected. i think the chief is in a position now where he wants to put his guys out there, put his men and women out there to protect the people of ferguson to allow people to protest peacefully but also has to keep in mind that there are people out there that want to cause death and devastation to the community. he's got to keep his people protected. it's going to be a delicate balance for him to do that. >> senator, i'd like to address the next question to you, because the chief also said that these protests this protest in particular there was an ugly mood from the get-go. if you take a look at pictures from in front of the police department last night, you could see chalk drawings on the sidewalk someone had written many chalk on the sidewalk "pigs kill yourself." have the protests turned ugly amid police resigning. >> first i would like to send my heartfelt prayers to the police officers and families and every single mother who lost her black son because of police brutality. i have to tell you when people act in an irresponsible way creating violence in bad situations it's not good to anyone. i listened to chief belmar earlier today. one of the things he was talking about is an ambush. this is the same feeling, the same language many of my constituents have felt for a very long time under attack being harassed consistently for years on end, not having any hope whatsoever. if someone is drawing someone on the ground that is a non-violent way to express oneself. but i do not condone -- >> some people would think of that as a threat. >> here is what i would have to say, a threat is when someone shooting a police officer which is terrible. we don't want anymore lives to be taken, absolutely not. what we have to deal with is the anger and the hurt still existing on both sides. we want to protect people who are peacefully protesting as well as protect officers who are abiding by the law. so we're going to have to sit down and have this conversation and anyone who is acting violently, they are going to have to come to terms that no one is going to accept them not even the peaceful protesters. >> senator, i will say this and the chief alluded to this that it's very difficult to determine who is a peaceful protester and who is not. it's impossible. is it time to step back and don't protest for just a week or two and then sit down and talk about it instead? wouldn't it be safer that way? >> here is the other thing, it's hard to determine who is a legitimate police officer as well. we do need to take time to figure out a strategy so we can clear our minds and figure out a peaceful plan so we can move ahead and not have these violent acts. yes, it is a wonderful thing to have the resignations of the chief as well as others but that simply is not going to do. we have called for the disbanment of the police department in ferguson. we still have injuries that are existing. three weeks ago police officers in ferguson were still attacking people including heather who is in a wheelchair who was struck by a police officer. she was in a wheelchair doing nothing, and police officers attacked her, arrested her and she ended up in a hospital. so let's be fair here. yes, we're concerned about police officers who are being attacked but i'm also concerned about the african-americans who are attacked every single day and have bullets through their heads by police officers. >> commissioner would you like to respond? >> the senator makes this point -- she keeps making this point about african-americans. i was just curious to know whether she knows in the past six days four black law enforcement were killed in this country, three of which, the only three police officers shot and killed in this country this year are all black including a u.s. marshal. i don't see people out there going crazy about the people that murdered these cops. these are black lives. every life matters. every life matters. it's just -- i don't know it's upsetting. >> senator, i think that people understand your concerns but i think that the situation in ferguson seems like it's chaotic right now and a tinderbox and something needs to happen. what's the solution? is it more protests in front of the police department until the ferguson police department is disbanded or is it a conversation between city and county leaders to get more things done? should the federal government come in? should eric holder send people from the civil rights division down to ferguson? >> let me tell you, i wrote a letter on august 18th last year saying that the federal government should intervene because i had no confidence in our state policing nor do i have confidence in our st. louis county policing at this point. yes, we have to be able to exercise our rights. and for anyone to suggest stopping protests that would be against the first amendment. your own crew has been offended by losing their right in the first amendment. journalists have had their first amendment take friend them. if you don't want it taken from your colleagues in the press, i'm pretty sure my constituents who are peacefully protesting don't want the first amendment taken away from them. there is no cause when it comes to the first amendment or any other constitutional right. >> i'm not talking about violating their first amendment rights. i think they have every right to protest. i would be the first to stand up for that. but i also believe in protecting people and keeping them safe. if the peaceful protesters can't tell who is dangerous or not and gunfire is coming from a dark hill at midnight shooting random into the crowd, that would be dangerous not only to the police officers but the protesters as well. >> you're so right. last night people were ducking down. they were scared they were nervous. what we have to enforce, this is what i'm calling out to all peaceful protesters what we did in the early days we self-policed. any time we see someone who is an aggressor, an agitator we need to communicate with police officers and let them know who they are because we want to out them. they are misrepresenting this movement. we want justice and we want peace and certain lir we do not want any officer or any other young black person to be six feet under ground. we don't want anymore lives to be lost, but we're going to have to start self-policing. it was quite useful when we did that in the early days last year last summer. we're going to have to do that again. it is unacceptable to tolerate any type of violence in this day and age because right now is critical the entire nation is in a chaotic moment. we'll have to find a pathway peaceful and protective of everyone's rights. most of all we have to protect people everyone. >> i know joe johns just got a statement from eric holder. you said you wanted the federal government to intervene. joe, what does eric holder say? >> it's a pretty lengthy statement as the statements go. it says this heinous assault on two brave law enforcement officers was inexcusable and repugnant. he says he condemns violence against any public safety officials in the strongest terms. the department of justice will never accept threats or violence directed at those who serve and protect our communities. he went on to mention a couple of incidents involving other officers including one in philadelphia last week buying a game for his son, and a deputy u.s. marshal shot in the line of duty earlier this week. he says such senseless acts of violence threaten the very reforms that non-violent protesters in ferguson and around the country have been working toward for the past several months. wishing those officers a full and speedy recovery and also saying that the justice department stands ready to offer any possible aid to an investigation into this incident including the department's full range of investigative resources. offering assistance from doj and condemning the shooting of these officers in the strongest possible terms. >> so help in the investigation. commissioner i want to ask you this the st. louis police chief also said he'd appreciate some help. is it time that maybe the national guard is called in? what's the answer? he also said it's very costly to cover ferguson. it's cost him $5 million so far. >> any time you have these incidents where you have protests and you have to bring in additional police officers it's going to cost money. we see that in new york city all the time. we saw it as a result of ferguson and the garner incident in new york enormous amounts of money. the governor has the right to activate the national guard if it's necessary. that call would basically from the police chief to the governor's office a request, and the governor makes the decision whether it's necessary. they can do that. in towns like ferguson st. louis, where they don't have the amount of staff that you would have in new york that may be necessary. >> all right, i'm going to leave it there. maria chappelle nadal, thanks to all of you. i appreciate it. i'll be back with much more in the "newsroom." i've just arrived in atlanta and i can't wait to start telling people how switching to geico could save them hundreds of dollars on car insurance. but first, my luggage. ahh, there it is. uh, excuse me sir? 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not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. another secret service investigation. two top agents reassigned after crashing a government call into a white house barricade. the agents reportedly had been drinking. it's the latest blemish for the agency in charge of protecting the president of the united states. in 2012 nearly a dozen agents were accused of bringing prostitutes back to their hotel rooms in colombia and last year three members were sent home from amsterdam after they went out drinking and one was found passed out in a hotel. six months ago this fence jumper making it all the way to the east room with a knife. the outcry led to the director's resignation. >> this is the agency in charge of protecting the president. these two agents one was the number two on the president's personal security detail. the incident took place last wednesday evening. apparently these two agents were drinking at a retirement party for a colleague nearby. they got into a government vehicle and had an altercation near white house grounds, ending up crashing through one of the security barricades. this is an important point, during that altercation, a uniformed officer, they wanted to conduct a sobriety test on these two agents potentially even make arrests. that's when a supervisor stepped in and let these two go. since the secret service has confirmed these two have been reassigned to non-operational positions, and we know department of homeland security has launched an investigation, the capitol hill the congressional committee in charge of overseeing this agency they released a statement saying quote, the fact this involved senior level agents is not only embarrassing but exhibits a clear lack of judgment in a potentially dangerous situation. this is the same congressional committee that late last year recommended to president obama that he should choose a new director from someone outside of the agency get some fresh new blood in there. ultimately president obama decided to choose someone from the inside joe clancy as the new director. he is just freshly in the job. he was the interim director since october of last year but he's been formally in the job for about one month. i want to play some sound of a former secret service agent who was an agent in the obama administration and also served for 13 years, talks about the kind of pressure that this new director will now have on him. >> all the critics before that said they needed to go outside for a director that's in the past. joe clancy is driving this bus right now. he needs to get in front of this issue and other issues that playing the secret service with management and really dock up with a comprehensive program on how to right the ship of management at the secret service. >> reporter: this is the first real test for joe clancy in his new position. there's a lot of scrutiny on the secret service. that was before he even came on but certainly this latest incident proves that there still are questions about the organization and the management of this agency. carol? >> all right, sunlen serfaty, thank you so much. i'm joined by michael ball bony the former director of homeland security for the state of new york. >> there's so many questions that get raised by this. it happened march 4th. why are we hearing about it now? secondly, the white house is the most coveted post for any security detail in the world. you're not adopting a much higher bar of organizational discipline. >> the supervisor doesn't let the local cops conduct sobriety checks. he obviously did that for what reason? >> if you or i did the same thing, we would be in handcuffs sitting in a drunk tank. that doesn't happen here. there are all the wrong messages here. what really is so disturbing is this is the president of the united states. what do we have to do? wait for a tragedy, something to happen where someone gets injured. the person getting into the white house grounds with a knife? this is not kid's stuff. the secret service is one of the most elite services and there's so many terrific people that i've gotten the privilege to work with over the years, but right now there's really what i would describe as a real crisis of confidence. >> wouldn't the new director have to know about this incident? >> i would imagine within minutes. >> if he really wanted to send a message, that he's cleaning things up in the secret service, why wouldn't he just fire them? >> obviously everybody wants to have a review make sure the facts are as they understand them. but so much information here you're in a public place. you go talk to the bartender, how many drinks did they have? you don't necessarily have to get a sobriety test. >> but keeping it under wraps by doing that. >> one of the things you can't do you can't lie and you can't cover up. right now it looks like this agency that's already had this tremendously difficult period of time before there are real questions about their core competency whether or not they're coming clean. that's a terrible message for this. >> everybody is saying it's the culture, the culture is bad, it's rotten. when did that start do you think? >> that's a great question. some of the things truly are so shocking the whole thing in colombia where the president is coming and now you're having issues with locals what about the ability to infiltrate? what message does this send to the folks who are our enemies. you don't think someone from isis would love to take out the president of the united states? it's not like we're in a period of total calm. there are folks that want to hurt us. we want to have the best and brightest in the position to send the message, no no, weave got this covered. unfortunately incidents like this send the opposite message. >> what should the new director do now? >> i think he's got to clean house. i was involved in the state police in new york a decision about their leadership. you become perplexed by do you stay inside and promote people from within or do you bring out someone new who can bring a totally new view. i think at this point in time there will be tremendous pressure to do what congress initially suggested, go out sichltd i think that's where you'll see this go. >> this director is going to be short lived? >> you had to take one incident and make that judgment for your career and say you're a failure because of one thing you didn't do. at some point in time the old saying the buck stops here. he was given the direction to mandate. as the former secret service agent said he's got to get in front of this. >> he's already behind it. the bus already ran over him. >> it's already overtaken him i think unfortunately. >> thank you so much. i appreciate you being here. i'll be right back. new ensure active heart health supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. ensure, take life in. if you haven't heard about the latest sale at hotels.com, then you haven't seen this commercial. book now and save during the spring break sale at hotels.com. i'm angela and i quit smoking with chantix. my children always wanted me to quit smoking but i resigned myself to the fact that it wasn't going to work. but chantix helped me do it. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it gave me the power to overcome the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some people had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix or history of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these stop chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. i'm a non-smoker. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. sir, we're going to need you on the runway later don't let a severe cold hold you back. get theraflu. it has the power of three medicines to take on your worst pain and fever, cough and nasal congestion. theraflu breaks you free from your toughest cold and flu symptoms. so you never miss a day. theraflu. serious power. >> this is really an ambush is what it is. you can't see it coming you don't know it's going to happen and you're defenseless from the fact that it is going to happen to you at the time. that's something very difficult to guard against when you have a group of officers standing in a large group and you have gunfire certainly directed at them. i would like to point out, however, the only gunfire we had was the actual incident where the officers were struck. >> st. louis county police chief says two officers were ambushed in ferguson last night. the shooter or shooters still on the loose. but when those shots rang out, a staff photographer for the st. louis american was right there. lawrence bryant is on the phone with me right now, hi lawrence. >> how are you doing? >> thanks for being with me. i appreciate it. i want to show you this photo. it shows officers running to their injured colleague. he's down on the ground. tell me about that moment. >> i think it took everybody by surprise. like i said the police were thinning out and the protesters were thinning out, also. i was also debating about leaving, talking to another colleague. like i said when the shots rang out, like i said i think it took everybody by surprise. >> is the police chief right? was this an ambush? >> you know, i don't really know if that's the right word. like i said nobody expected that to happen. it wasn't tense. it was peaceful. of course you guys saw the other little brawl that was started, but those were minor incidents. everything was peaceful from there. like i said i think it took everybody by surprise. >> i'm just looking at another photo. this was probably taken after the shots were fired and police were trying to figure out where the gunshots came from and trying to protect themselves and the protesters who were left. is that correct? >> correct. >> the police chief also said that at these protests the mood has turned ugly and it's difficult for police to determine who is a peaceful protester and who isn't. do you agree with that assessment? >> i don't think it has turned ugly. there are a lot of frustrated people out there because -- i mean people are just they're fed up with it. but at the same time like i said for the most part 200-plus days it's been very peaceful. of course people are going to use their first amendment rights but at the same time this has been peaceful. i don't think it has been ugly at all. i think the only ugly part is people looking for answers the same way they're looking for answers. >> the police chief also said because this happened he wanted the community to understand that police may not do exactly the right thing. what do you think he meant by that? >> well it's tense on both sides. for instance i was trying to get some information last night about when i could leave. i was there until almost 3:00 4:00 in the morning, but you can tell from the police officers yes, their guy got hit last night which was unfortunate, but at the same time they -- they've been going through a lot of stress just like the protesters have been going through a lot of stress. i think people just all the way around here in the city just are on edge. >> so what do you think the answer is? >> at this point i really don't know. this changes the game a little bit. like i said i don't think nobody expected that to happen. the protesters are all basically, they want change and to be heard and to make the right decisions in the city so everybody can get along in the city. but, like i said you do have just like there mibl bad apples with any job or within the police department, there's going to be bad apples with the protesters. >> i understand. lawrence bryant thank you so much for talking with me. thank you all for joining me today, i'm carol costello. "@this hour" with berman and bol dan after the break. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we know in the cyber world, threats are always evolving. at first we were protecting networks. then, we were protecting the transfer of data. and today it's evolved to infrastructure... ♪ ♪ ...finance... and military missions. we're constantly innovating to advance the front line in the cyber battle, wherever it takes us. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. nobody told us to expect it... intercourse that's painful due to menopausal changes it's not likely to go away on its own. so let's do something about it. premarin vaginal cream can help it provides estrogens to help rebuild vaginal tissue and make intercourse more comfortable. premarin vaginal cream treats vaginal changes due to menopause and moderate-to-severe painful intercourse caused by these changes. don't use it if you've had unusual bleeding breast or uterine cancer blood clots, liver problems, stroke or heart attack, are allergic to any of its ingredients or think you're pregnant. side effects may include headache pelvic pain, breast pain vaginal bleeding and vaginitis. estrogens may increase your chances of getting cancer of the uterus, strokes, blood clots or dementia so use it for the shortest time based on goals and risks. estrogen should not be used to prevent heart disease heart attack, stroke or dementia. ask your doctor about premarin vaginal cream. hello, i'm john berman. >> i'm kate bold win. we'll begin with new bloodshed in ferguson missouri. two police officers shot. the gunman still on the loose and the city on edge once again, torn by violence and protest. here is the moment the shots rang out.