The worst in our politics. Ginsburgs dying wish was to not be replaced before we know the winner of the president ial election. But of course this is not going to be about the justices wishes. This is about the wishes of somebody else, president donald john trump, and those of the senator atop the majority, Mitch Mcconnell, of kentucky. We will go through the main legal and political realities at play. But on one level this is very simple. Its about power. But i would have you keep this in mind early on here in our understanding of the process Going Forward. Mcconnell and co changing their mind about what they said in 2016 about what is right and wrong to do with a scotus selection near an election, now that would be political hypocrisy. Well go through their arguments tonight. However, this could be a very interesting play that could have huge implications, positive and negative. One, it could lead to a huge turnout in november, okay . Well talk to you about what the news of rbg passing has done for the democratic cause with donors. But it also could affect that turnout on the president ial and senate level. It could wind up deciding the control of the senate. And it also could determine what the Supreme Court looks like. Nine justices is not in the constitution. There is a storied history, positive and negative, with the changing of that number. Well go through it. But remember this, a shortterm win for republicans right now, giving them a 63 majority, could turn into a multilayered longterm loss. Now, trump just said hes likely to name a nominee next week even though he was reminded of the hypocrisy of the republican blockade of merrick garland. They blocked that judge appointment for 11 months simply because they didnt want it to happen when they werent in power. Republican senator Susan Collins has just broken off from the herd saying the nomination should come from the winner of november 3rd, the upcoming election. Trump of course disagrees. I think were going to start the process extremely soon, and well have a nominee very soon. Senator collins said shed like to see the next president be the one to nominate a Supreme Court justice. Who said that . Senator collins. Well, i totally disagree with her. We have an obligation. We won. We have an obligation as the winners who pick who we want. I could see most likely it would be a woman. I think the choice will be next week. Now, look, what is his defense on this . Yeah, but thats not what mcconnell said in 2016, he said you have to wait until the next election to see what the people wanting in terms of who gets to choose. Obamas argument was exactly the same as the president s right now. Hes arguing then what trump is arguing now. But im in power, they put me here. This is part of the job, i get to do it. Mcconnell said no. But you cant blame trump for mcconnells hypocrisy and you cant expect donald trump of all people to say, you know what, i think im going to take a pass on power and an opportunity to exercise it in the interest of what people may want in their next president if its not me. Thats not reasonable. Frankly i think its a strained case for anybody in his position but well let those arguments be made. The more immediate question is when, whats the specific timing. He says very soon. Are there any other republicans in the senate that will join collins . Now, i want to remind you of senator Lindsey Graham and where hes been on this. Listen. I want you to use my words against me. If theres a republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say, Lindsey Graham said lets let the next president , whoever it might be, make that nomination and you could use my words against me and youd be absolutely right. If an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term and the primary process has started, well wait until the next election. And ive got a pretty good chance of being youre on the record. Yeah. All right. Hold the tape. Heres what i dont understand about this. Why are so many of you surprised that senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina would eat his own words . Why do you think hed be troubled by doing that right now . Because hes a man of paramount integrity . You know thats not true with him as a public servanservant. No need to judge anybody as a person, you can deal with his actions and words in office. You know what he said about donald trump when they were running together went far beyond the pale of any legitimate criticism and then he turned just like that when it became advantageous to him and he will do the same now. Will his words be used against him . Sure. But theres no prosecution of him. He has an election that people will decide. But at this point do you really expect anything better . The chair of the Senate Judiciary committee tweeted today, i fully understand where President Trump is coming from. Of course he does, because he wants to be liked by the man in power. And he wants his help in getting reelected in a tough race. Now he has some excuses on why we shouldnt call him a giant hypocrite, but frankly i dont think theyre worth your time. So where are we . Theres a collision course ahead of this election. Not much of a collision, because i dont know what the democrats can do. But we should understand the state of play, because like i said, this is not as simple as it seems. The republicans have the power, they have the votes, lets go. Shortterm gain can be longterm pain. Lets discuss. Manu raju and dana bash. Dana, thank you very much for joining me. My sister. My brother, manu, thank you for joining me. The best to your families. These are hard events, the passing of rbg, a famed jurist. Now we have to look immediately to whats happening Going Forward and we will do that together. Dana, whats the take in the white house . Well, you just heard it from the president. The benefit of having donald trump as his own spokesperson is that he doesnt leave any question about what he thinks and what hes going to do. And what he said is that hes going to do it quickly and its probably going to be a woman, which makes sense politically on so many levels. I think that manu will speak to this as well, but i think the thing to keep in mind, you talk about a collision, you talk about hypocrisy. Chris, you know this as well as i do or anybody, and that is there is a cost benefit analysis for each of these republican lawmakers. It is very, very clear, frankly was the minute we heard the news that they believe the benefit of putting a conservative if they can get it done on the court with donald trump in office is far outweighs the cost, frankly, of being a hypocrite and being seen that way. Im just going to say it bluntly. They dont care. They really dont care. Because ultimately what matters especially to someone like Mitch Mcconnell whose whole public life, political life has been focused on the bench, that is what matters. Sure. And also, dana, lets flesh that out. Perfect analysis. Manu, if they were to restrain themselves now in the interest of any kind of logical consistency or principled consistency, they have to think about the conservative base. I mean this is a 63 advantage on the court. That could mean everything to the real heart of their own voting base, forget about energizing the democratic base. Dana is totally right. They dont care about being called hypocrites here because its way more important to them to get someone on the bench who could reshape this court for a generation to come and the republicans believe theres a significant political benefit to them. Talking to Top Republicans today, they are believe that this could be their ticket to holding the Senate Majority in some of these key races. Look at what happened in North Carolina just today. Thom tillis of North Carolina in a difficult race, neck in neck, he quickly came out and said he supports moving forward with a nominee this year. Also martha mcsally, the appointed senator from arizona, quickly tweeted out her support for confirming someone in the fall before the end of the year. Youve seen Kelly Loeffler saying she also wants someone confirmed. The ultimate calculation is to be with your party, particularly in those republicanleaning states where Republican Voters are crucial. Which is why Susan Collins, its not a surprise that she came out and said no to moving ahead because shes from maine, a democraticleaning state. Its much more complicated. Trump is very unpopular in her state. Its more likely she would break ranks. Also the question too is where does someone like cory gardner, the colorado republican in a state that biden is favored in, a democraticleaning state. He has not said where he will come down if he wants this vote to be delayed until next year. So those are some of the people to watch. But at the moment republicans are confident that the votes will ultimately be there even if they are strongly criticized for taking the opposite position four years ago, chris. Yeah, i dont even think we get to the discussion any time soon about whether or not the Vice President would have a role in this vote. Thats a thicket of legalities and scholarship, but i dont even think you have past three maybe possibles in this game yet, so well see. Last word to you, dana. What are the democrats saying . What can they shake at this . They are scrambling. Ive really never seen anything like it. Scrambling to find figure out if there is a strategy to beat this. In the short term in talking to democratic sources, and im sure manu is hearing the same thing, they believe that they can slow roll this, but probably not stop it. It largely depends on what the republicans as you said, weve heard from two who have said lets not do this before the election. But if there are two more, they could at least slow it until after the election if, if, and its a big if and i know manu has been saying this ad nauseam, if Mitch Mcconnell decides im just going to shove this through before the election. It is very, very hard, almost impossible, but its Mitch Mcconnell so nothing is impossible when it comes to the bench. I talked to a democrat who knows senate rules and procedure probably better than anybody on the planet last night who said at this point it looks like slowing things down is the best bet, but stopping it will be very, very hard. And potential retaliation to the democrats. The question is how long can you slow it down when mcconnell sets the calendar . But look, were going to learn a lot more quickly, because everybody is putting their thinking caps on about this. And it does have to be balanced with decency, even in these days. You have the decorum of letting the i think what youre thinking, but im not so sure about that. But the justice has to be but certain things, i think, will loom large. You know, for the president here. Shes just passed, she should be buried. You should show that honor and commitment. If he doesnt, one more surprise of what he can do that really is beneath the office. But i think that this could all happen very quickly. The question is what does it mean for the election and after . Well be talking about that plenty. Dana, again, the best for the new year to you and the family. Manu, all the best, brother, and thank you. Have a good night. Well have more to come on where this is headed. Well talk about the politics. I cant flesh out the legalities in any way that is that elucidating for you. How many Supreme Court justices are we supposed to have . Its not in the constitution. Who gets to decide whether it happens before the election or after . The people in charge of the senate and the president in power at that time. Then why didnt obama get garland . Because the person in charge of the senate didnt want it to happen and he got his numbers behind him and that was it. It doesnt matter what the rationales were, it doesnt matter if theyre undoing them now. It wasnt law, it was politics. So what does this mean plus and minus for the republicans in this election . Another good mind, coming up. Im happy to give you the tour, i love doing it. Hey jay. Jay . Charlotte oh hi. He helped me set up my watch lists. Oh, hes terrific. Excellent tennis player. Byebye. I recognize that voice. Annie . Yeah she helped me find the right bonds for my income strategy. Youre very popular around here. Theres a birthday going on. Karl he took care of my 401k rollover. Wow, you call a lot. Yeah, well its my money were talking about here. Joining us for karaoke later . Ah, id love to, but people get really emotional when i sing. Help from a team that will exceed your expectations. Some Companies Still have hr stuck between employeesentering data. A. Changing data. More and more sensitive, personal data. And it doesnt just drag hr down. It drags the entire business down with inefficiency, errors and waste. Its ridiculous. So ridiculous. With paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. Visit paycom. Com, and schedule your demo today. Leading armies to battle . , was that your greataunt, keeping armies alive . Drafting the plans. Taking the pictures. Was it your family members . Who flew. Who fixed. Who fought. Who rose to the occasion. When the world needed them most. Find and honor your ancestors who servered in world war ii. Their stories live on at ancestry. Okay. I dont like making the argument to you about politics being ugly and the indecency because i want people to have an expectation of integrity. Many of the people in Public Service are in there for the right reasons at great sacrifice to their own personal lives. Yes, there are some dirty ones in there for personal gain who dont have principles, they just have positions of convenience and the accumulation of power. Youre right, youre right. Youre right to feel that this system picks its own winners and losers sometimes. And yeah, were living that right now. Its not just Mitch Mcconnell. Its not just senator Lindsey Graham. Theyre just big names that stand out as hypocrites in this. But the hypocrisy is meaningless to them if it is in the way of them getting power, okay . In 2016, they made a simple argument to you. Were so close to an election, this president is a twotermer, hes a lame duck, hes out. Shouldnt we know what the people want in the next president and that administration so close when they get to exercise their mandate . Now that was based on complete bs in terms of legal and political precedent. That had never been the custom, ever, okay . So why was it then . They had the numbers and wanted to rationalize it and dress it up a little bit and so they did it. Now theyre saying the opposite, absolutely. This is no surprise, mcconnell has been very clear, much to the ha ha ha has of the smoky rooms that he speaks to. Theyre not really smoky rooms, we cant smoke anywhere. But metaphorically they are. Its an insiders game and they play to them. Theres no way Mitch Mcconnell isnt going to secure this seat and his legacy of delivering three conservative justices. Theres no way that donald trump doesnt want that as well. Now, it is as simple as that . Does it come with risk . Lets talk politics with scott jennings. Its good to have you on primetime as always, the best to your family on saturday night. I will have a scroll going of the 41 republican senators who were saying you cant pick somebody this close to the election, its not fair to the people. The hypocrisy is meaningless here because the opportunity is too great. Is that a simple assessment . Well, i think youre oversimplifying what they said in 2016. There was a difference. In that case the white house was controlled by one party, the senate pby the other. You had to go back to the 1880s to find a situation where someone was confirmed. In this case the party in the white house is also the party in the senate so they view it as a different situation and therefore a different precedent that would be in use here. I will get us to the political obviousness of this by knocking down the idea that you have to go anywhere for any kind of suggestion that what would be happening here is unusual. It would be completely usual. President s who are in power, first term or second term, have almost without exception always appointed whatever vacancy came up on their watch. No one has ever forestalled that duty, ever, for a Supreme Court justice until mcconnell forced it on obama. When you say you have to go back to the 1880s to see this, you are mixing apples with oranges, as you well know. You are looking for whens the last time right before an election we had a vacancy come up and this was a different person in power from one party as the president and another at the head of the senate. Thats irrelevant. Its about how you exercise that power. Mcconnell said its not about mixed parties. Mcconnell said its too close to when the people get to decide. He made it up then, and he will just undo it now. Why dignify it . Just admit it and say yeah, now we get to win, our rules. Well, two things. Number one, we just disagree on this point, chris. You did have different parties in power so that voters in 2016 leading up to that vacancy had delivered mixed messages. You had democrats in charge of one institution and republicans in charge of the other. In this case republicans, the voters awarded them control of both and reaffirmed that control in the senate in 2018. Look, the constitution does not give the president the power to nominate this and the senate to just simply rubber stamp it. You have two coequal separate branches of government that have a role to play. It is about power and the republicans do have power in the senate and they have a constitutional duty to exercise that power however they see fit. Thats what theyre going to do here. Yeah. You got two problems. One is your argument is at odds with what mcconnell said in 2016. He said im not going exercise my power. So punitively his argument is people put me into power to do nothing, which is obviously not a great argument to the people who put you in power. And he said i have the power to do nothing so im going to do nothing as opposed to exercising the power he was put there to exercise, and the president in point of fact was also elected. And when obama was elected, he was elected to do the job just as trump is right now, as trump said today frankly. And you have someone else who disagreed with you, senator Lindsey Graham, who said if i switched the parties, id be in the same position. Its not right to do that this close to the election and if that happens under trumps watch, you can hold my words against me. Now he has some bs excuse. Youre not about principle, youre about power. This is politics. Im not saying the democrats wouldnt do the same thing but why try to make it something prettier than that. I dont think republicans are going to accept any crocodile tears from the democrats about not filling the seat out of some sense of fairness. I think every republican knows if democrats were in charge right now and they had control of the senate, they would fill it. So i dont think we should be pollyanna so dont dress it up and say its about different parties or this or that. Dont waste our time with that. You know thats all bs. You would do it because you can do it. My question to you is this you can call it a waste of time. Well, but its a distinction without a difference. He didnt do it because there were different parties at play, he did it because he was in control and he was able to stop a democrat from doing something he didnt want to do. Just dont dress yourself up, thats all im saying. Youre down in the mud with everybody else in this business, lets all wallow in it together. What is the cost to this. Are you concerned at all about what happens in the election riling up the democrats, any expansion of the Supreme Court if they can control the senate. Is that reasonable as a concern . Yeah, i think you raise some interesting points. We can look at the recent history. In 2016 there was a vacancy of course and it was trumps benefit, it brought out to the polls recalcitrant republicans nervous about donald trump. In 2018 four democrats lost their seats after the kavanaugh nomination was such a nasty thing in washington. So the recent history of this is that it has helped republicans. Now, in this particular election Donald Trumps Campaign Last week just moved all of its advertising to wanting to talk about the economy. They decided now is the time to make their argument against biden on the economy. This Supreme Court vacancy throws a bit of a Monkey Wrench into that given that now well be talking about the courts and be talking about lets face it abortion. So it does change the conversation to other issues that the trump Campaign Last week it was the economy, this week it will be something else. That may throw a Monkey Wrench into their plans. Thats a good point you make. Just on the court packing, i do expect republicans to begin to make this point. I think on the court packing, i think democrats are obviously moving in that direction and republicans i think today, im hearing a lot more people say were not worried about one vacancy, were worried about five. Because if we have this one and the democrats add four, then its about the next five vacancies. So i think this is democrats may be making a mistake by freaking republicans out about not just one seat but potentially five of them. They dont have any choice. They dont have any choice. They have no leverage, they cant stop this. It doesnt matter that mcconnell monkeyed with the rules. It was a power play and he was successful with it. You can describe it any way you want, but its the only rationale that exists. He said that himself many times. But youre right, that is a good thing to have as an iron in the fire. If we lose and we do this, they may expand the court. I wouldnt call it packing the court because you actually have a fairly healthy precedent even including fdr. Now, he wanted to do it for political reasons because he didnt like the outcome of one case which he felt nullified the effect of his emergency actions in his 100day plan. But you used to expand the court on almost a regular basis with the number of Circuit Courts. We havent done that in some time because they were worried about the politicizing of it. Well see where it leads. You also have a very different calendar this time in the senate races than you did in 2018 so well see how that leans in. Its more advantageous for democrats this time compared to last. Scott jennings, always appreciate the back and forth. Best to you and your family. Well be right back. Thank you, chris. Take care. Keeping your oysters business growing has you swamped. You need to hire. I need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo if this president gets to place a third younger justice on the court it would cement a generation of jurisprudence in all likelihood with obvious legal, social, economic and historic ramifications. The question is, so what does this mean for democrats, if anything . Two great minds that know the court very well, joan skupic and john dean. Good to see you both. Thank you for joining me on a saturday. Thank you. Thank you, chris. Joan, first, give us a little historical context. This newfound sense of parity that the republicans are parroting is very unsatisfying to me. The argument in 2016 was very simple. We dont have to do this. Were right near an election and obama is definitely out, so weve got a chance to take power and were not giving you your choice because we dont have to. That was the argument. Now theyre saying, well, it was a mix of one party in the presidency and one party in the senate and thats why it wasnt fair. What is the Historical Perspective on that . You know, chris, i actually remember very well february of 2016 talking to you about this because Mitch Mcconnell within about an hour of the public announcement of Justice Scalias death said were not going to do it. Were going to block whoever president obama puts up. And so many people said thats so audacious, hell never be able to do it. He wont be able to pull it off. Look what happened, he pulled it off. I think that audacious move triggered certainly Donald Trumps momentum with the hard right and the judiciary. He even said he thought the scalia vacancy helped him win in november 2016. And now you have another bold move by Mitch Mcconnell that people are saying how can he do this . How can he possibly do this so close to the election . Well, hes doing it. Hes doing it. Let me tell you how i do think see these two episodes as sort of bracketing just a serious period of trouble for the Supreme Court as its getting entangled with politics. But on the law, when you talked about a young appointee coming in. Whoever comes in is going to affect the life of your children and your grandchildren. In 1991, which is a point ill go back to for such a dramatic change of a justice, that is when Clarence Thomas succeeded thurgood marshall. Clarence thomas was only 43 at that time. Here we are nearly 30 years later and Clarence Thomas is still on the court. The people who donald trump are looking at seriously are in their 40s. Theyre in their 40s. They will they will be there making the law that well all live under for so many more years so i cannot overstate the consequences of this and what a Political Drama it is matching what Mitch Mcconnell did back in 2016. Right. And thats the only precedent, counselor dean. There is no precedent about different parties and you have to go back to the 1880s. Its not true. Weve had republicans with a Different Senate and they put their nominees forward and they fight about it but they do it. This is about politics. Now, can politics come back to bite them if the democrats turn this to advantage and get power in the senate . What do you think of the idea of expanding the Supreme Court, john dean . I find it a very attractive idea and i find that if you package it as court packing, obviously its not immediate visceral reactions. Oh, no, we dont do that. But what were seeing, what Mitch Mcconnell has been doing throughout the Trump Presidency is packing the courts from the bottom to the top. And now the courts are really out of balance. I think that biden and his team could make a very strong argument and put a lot of leverage on mitch and say, listen, youre not playing by any rules. We want to set some rules. We want the court to grow. We want it to be able to do the business it should do. We know the lower courts have been needing more judges for decades, and so theres a backlog there of maybe a hundred or 200 judges are needed. We also think the Supreme Court should be expanded. Maybe its two, maybe its three seats. Well see. But they should have hearings on this and if they have the power, i think they should do it. I mean because we all learn about fdr, there is something that is unpalatable about politicizing the expansion of the court, but people will start doing what im doing right now. Were reading books. Weve got to read the history and how they expanded the court with different Circuit Court expansions to echo it and why they dont do it and youve got to look at it as an exercise of power. Theyre in power. Theyre putting in all these conservative judges on the lower courts because they can. If the democrats get in power, they can do the same things with their use abuse of power depending on your partisan perspective. Joan, john, well be talking about this a lot. Thank you for joining me on a saturday night. God bless you both. John has a new book called authoritarian nightmare. Good read, on sale now. So politics all over us. But, look, i said earlier you do have to defer to decency here on one level, right . Yes, theres a vacancy. Remember why . Weve lost somebody of tremendous importance in our society, and always a special place in my family. We have one of Justice Ginsburgs longtime friends here. A congresswoman who introduced her at her Senate Confirmation hearing all those years ago. Ill tell you something ive never discussed before about why it matters to the cuomos. Eleanor Holmes Norton on what rbg meant to her and what she should mean to you and your kids, especially your daughters, next. Get ready our most popular battery is now even more powerful. The stronger, lastslonger energizer max. Who better to remember the incredible force that rbg was than someone who knew her for 50 years and fought alongside her in her quest for legal justice, congresswoman eleanor Holmes Norton introduced ginsburg at her Senate Hearing in 1993 when she was nominated by then president clinton. Congresswoman, welcome to primetime. Everybody knows you obviously for your political prowess but not to be missed, dana bash was just reminding me an amazing attorney in your own right, fighting for rights, the newsweek case dana pointed out to me obviously an extension of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and your action there as a litigant. So you are well known and it drew you together with the work of now a famed jurist gone by. What should people remember about the notorious but really famous rbg . Yes, and the notorious rbg should be remembered as much for her work as a lawyer when i first knew her as, as a judge. As a judge she has been in a 54 minority. As a lawyer, she was a path breaker. She argued six womens rights cases before the Supreme Court. When i was at the aclu as assistant legal director, and she headed something called the womens rights project. Now, she did not work for the aclu, she just did this as her work. And she took these cases, won five out of the six cases, and is more responsible for establishing the equality of women under law than any single lawyer or judge. Indeed, i bet most people dont even remember that not until Justice Ginsburg argued as a lawyer that the 14th amendment applied to women, did it apply to women. It applied to blacks, but it did not apply to women until she made it so in her argument before the Supreme Court. Thats just how path breaking she was. Rosh hashana obviously is upon us. And the timing of her passing, at the beginning of the new year of the jewish calendar, right before the election, very momentous. One of her final wishes, according to family, was that the vacancy be held until after the election. What do you make of that notion . Its not a legal one, really, its a political one. What do you make of where we are now and what seems to be a rush to fill it . I was astonished that she was so prescient that she had to say outloud what i think most of us certainly who are democrats are thinking. She had seen what happened before in the garland matter, when indeed the senate simply did not take up the issue. And she apparently saw it coming even this time that the senate might well rush ahead as it did not with merrick garland. And so apparently as a dying wish, she said to her granddaughter that this nomination should await whoever becomes president of the united states. Many of us are taking that very seriously. But know well have to fight very hard for it. Ye you know. He was in the conversation with president clinton back then and he always referred to Justice Ginsburg as the upgrade. He would say when i was studying about her role as a litigator and on the court, and he watched the court very closely, as you might imagine, he always referred to her as the upgrade. And he said they just dont understand how quick she is. It takes them a long time to figure out what she has already figured out. And now we are all left here with her legacy and hopefully, as you suggest, a better understanding of just how much she meant and will mean for generations to come, as have you, congresswoman. Eleanor Holmes Norton, thank you for your work and thank you for being with me. Thank you very much. All right. God bless and be well. Im sorry for the loss of your friend. Well be right back. Humira patients,. This ones for you. You inspired us to make your humira experience even better. With humira citratefree. It has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, theres less liquid, and a thinner needle. With less pain immediately following injection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. And you can use your copay card to pay as little as 5 a month. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections,. Including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,. As have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,. Serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common. And if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,. Or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. The same humira you trust with less pain immediately following injection. If you cant afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. Dr. William schaffner joins us now for a covid update. Welcome back to prime time especially on a saturday night. The idea nothing on a plane is safe. Of course socially distanced flights arent going to be 100 safe procedure. Youre not surprised by this, are you . Well, im not really. Before we get into that, i share the sadness of the country on the passing of Justice Ginsburg and condolences to her family. Thanks, doc. Back to covid here. Of course, travel continues to produce risk, particularly for people who are of advanced age and who have underlying chronic conditions. Thats clear, chris. If youre going to travel, please wear the mask at all times and do some eating and drinking before you get on the plane so you dont have to remove the mask while youre in the flight. Good hand hygiene, some people will actually take santiwipes along if youre wiping off those surfaces. As much as you can, youre going to be out in some crowds, maintain as much distance as possible. So, heres my new thing. We all want kids back in school. My argument on the show, i dont know if youve been able to watch lately, is the reason the kids arent back in school is because of a failure of really strategy. Were using the wrong kind of tests. Were using these pcr tests with high cycle count that catch everything thats in you thats related to the virus well beyond just contagious viral material, live virus. And if we did it differently, doctor, you would still catch people who were contagious, but not people like me who may have vestiges of dead virus or other dna from virus. Why dont we do the right kinds of testing for kids in school and do more of it . That is an absolutely wonderful argument. It is so sound in theory, i love it. Im not sure that we have the tests that are reliable enough to do that. To separate those who are really shedding a lot of virus and can affect others from people who have just a little and really are very little hazard to others. I dont know if theres another test for another germ that we have that can do that. So, if there are some tests that can be demonstrably function this way, that would be wonderful. Then we could test not only schools and colleges and universities but businesses. We could open up larger venues again. And that would be wonderful. But, as we say, in god we trust, all others must provide data. But the pcr test right now, theyre pushing about 40 cycles, not to overwhelm the audience with science they dont need. But the higher the number of cycles, the more deep into your dna it looks for things. So, if you lower it from 40 to 30 or 35, the science says, according to the studies that are out there and the experts that are putting it forth, you still catch the live virus. You just dont catch the other stuff that gives you a positive result for covid. But the persons not contagious. Why dont we just lower the cycle cycles and use the existing tests . Im not a laboratoryina. I havent seen those data. If it could work, lets try it to see if it works to see if we can apply it so it works. You would need some field studies to get people comfortable with the notion that that could actually work in the real world rather than just in the laboratory. I would love to see them try. We need as much help as we can get to combat this virus because its going to be with us for quite a long while yet. And, doctor, thank you, as always. As we go to break, dr. Schaffner and i, he has been a tutor on this for me from the beginning. Its never just been test, test, test anyway you can. Its always been test smart. Its always been testing the right people in the right kinds of ways. And its not as simple as one size fits all. Dr. Schaffners been saying that for a long time. I have as well because i hear it from experts like him. But the science is out there. And were going to keep talking about this, especially every night at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cnn for cuomo prime. Well be right back. Thing we shs wanting to make our lives the best they can be. If you have medicare and medicaid, a dual complete plan from unitedhealthcare can help. Giving you more benefits. At no extra cost. And a promise to be there for you. Whatever your story may be. 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