Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom Live 20180115

Around the world. Im natalie allen. And im cyril vanier. Youre watching cnn newsroom. Thanks for being with us. First we begin with breaking news out of indonesia, though. A floor has collapsed inside the building of the jakarta stock exchange. Officials say it happened in the middle of the day in a space where tourists usually gather near an entrance. Its unclear what caused this floor to collapse or if there are any casualties. But a source says most people have been rescued. Well bring you more on this story as soon as we get it. We continue to follow any more developments. Well, in the u. S. Monday is Martin Luther king jr. Day. And on this holiday, to honor the civil rights icon, Many Americans will wake up to this quote from their president. I am not a racist, as you just heard. Of course that comes after days of controversy since donald trump reportedly used a slur referring to several african nations. Now the president is defending himself. Here is Boris Sanchez with more. Reporter President Trump taking time before dinner to answer questions from reporters alongside House Majority leader Kevin Mccarthy of california on sunday night. The president making news on several fronts, answering some uncomfortable questions, specifically, whether he is a racist after it was reported on thursday that several remarks that the president made specifically about african nations and haitian immigrants to the United States drew ire from both democrats and republicans. Listen to the president s response. No, no, im not a racist. I am the least racist person you have ever interviewed that i can tell you. The president also addressed the potential for a looming Government Shutdown as that friday night deadline approaches for lawmakers to come up with a budget deal. He said that there should not be a shutdown, but that he wasnt sure if one might half or not. Listen to more of what the president said. I dont know if there will be a shutdown there shouldnt be, because if there is, our military gets hurt very badly. Well cannot let our military be hurt. Reporter now getting back to those reported comments that the president allegedly made during a meeting with lawmakers at the white house on thursday when discussing immigration. There is some Division Among Lawmakers about what the president actually said. Some republicans like senators tom cotton and david perdue initially said that they couldnt recall what the president said during a meeting. On sunday both of them are outright denying that the president ever said those derogatory remarks about african nations or about haitians. Others, like republican senator Lindsey Graham said in a statement that he confronted the president about his remarks, though he didnt specify what those remarks were. Reportedly, he did tell fellow republican senator from South Carolina tim scott that the reports about the president s conversation was accurate. Beyond that you have senator dick durbin confirming that the president made those remarks, and saying that they were hatefilled. All of that the backdrop of this not only a disagreement what the president said, but also on policy with the Government Shutdown looming on friday, we could potentially see some kind of deal from lawmakers to keep the government funded, or a stopgap bill that would keep the government funded and punt on this conversation about daca and immigration. Or we could see a Government Shutdown if some democrats follow along as they have promised to not vote on any kind of budget without a resolution and the issue of dreamers being included. Boris sanchez, cnn, traveling with the president in west palm beach, florida. Lets brit in steven erlanger, chief Diplomatic Correspondent for the new york times. So steven, the president said a few hours ago, you heard him, im not a racist. And he offered no further explanation. Your thoughts on mr. Trumps defense. The president say im not a racist . That would be one of the incidents there are people lying here. Lets be honest. Democrats are lying. But someones lying about what the president said. But lets think about the meaning of what he said. Whether he said shouse or shole really doesnt matter. What matters is the temperament behind it and the meaning behind it. And the meaning behind it is i want people from nice white European Countries like norway. And i dont want poor black people. Thats the implication of what he said. Now, does that make him a racist . Not necessarily. It certainly gives you an idea of what he would like for immigration. Listen to what congressman john lewis said on sunday morning. Weve come so far. Weve made so much progress. He is taking us back to another place. Do you think the president is a racist . Shrink a racist. How do you explain it, or what do you to be it . We have to stand up. We have to speak up and not pry trito sweep it under the rug. Stephen, despite all the controversies, there has never been as many people unequivocally calling the president a racist. Politically speaking, do you think he can get out from under this . I think he has a lot of trouble. Its a very divided country. His base is a minority. Lets not forget. He was very lucky to win the election, though he certainly won it. And americans elected a Republican House and a republican senate. Lets see what happens in the mid terms. I think his reputation is getting solidified. As someone who is put it in the old way, economical with the truth, this is a Classic Media strategy. You defend yourself by attacking others. You deny you Say Something that you might have said. I mean, trump has always dealt with the press as a way to enhance his own view of himself. Even when he was a builder in new york, he told one person to say a building was x number of stories rather than the real number of stories because he said the press would believe it. Now this is what he is doing. What worries me a little bit you have to Hope Congress holds to its own principles. But clearly there is sycophancy going on here there is a lot of fear among republicans heading towards the mid terms that the president s going to drag them down. And you have trump loyalists who are now pretending they didnt hear anything of any kind. You have to admire a bit Lindsey Graham for at least standing up at the time and saying this is not my america, mr. President. Again, i would say the actual words he used are not the point. We shouldnt be fighting over those words. What we should be thinking about is the habit of mind and attitudes that led to the expression, that lead to the view of the president about immigration and his notion of the country that he is leading. So steven, in that case, lets talk about the policy just a moment. Just before that whole controversy erupted, a Bipartisan Initiative to reform the u. S. Immigration system was put to the president. And it was a comprehensive reform deal. Dreamers, everything. Has all of that been derailed now . Well, it may be. I hope not. Just because there are a lot of peoples lives that are at stake and future at stake. Politically, one can view the program as good or bad. But at this point peoples lives are really on the line. Now, there is a negotiation going on. Politics is always about negotiations. And, you know, this is clearly what the white house is doing, which is they want to put daca in a big negotiation to get other things done. You have the Government Shutdown coming. I mean, there are lots of things to trade at this point. But idealogically, there is no question that President Trump doesnt like the daca program and wants to end it. He is having trouble with the courts as he had trouble with the courts on his effort to ban muslims or certain people from mostly muslim countries to be fair. But this is, you know, you can argue this is the platform on which he was elected. So basically, you have a political fight. And i hope like good political fights, they come out with some kind of compromise. Otherwise, everything gets blocked. All right, steven erlanger, chief Diplomatic Correspondent for the new york times. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks, cyril. We turn to hawaii where officials have a simple yet disturbing explanation for the message sent out to everyone warning of incoming missiles. They say an employee just pushed the wrong button during a routine drill. Panicked tourists and residents raced to find shelter anywhere they could. You can see what it looked like ther there. Internet searches for how to survive a Nuclear Missile spiked in the u. S. Sara sidner is in hawaii. She has details on whats being done to make sure a false alert like that never happens again. We are told that the person responsible for pressing that button so to speak and sending that erroneous message out to the population in hawaii that did create fear has been redefined for the time being. But not fired. Now with espoke at length to the Emergency Management Agency Administrator who apologized for what happened, said it was his mistake, it was his department that made the mistake. But that they are going to make changes. They have already made changes. First of all, theyre able to send out a false alarm warning faster than they did before it took them 38 minutes this time. A lot of time for people to be worrying and panicking. And second, that a second person will be responsible for proving whether or not a message has been sent out. Those are the things that have been done immediately. But the population here, there was fear. Even a state representative who is very familiar with how things works, thats because the population here knows that if indeed north korea were to fire a missile from launch to the time of impact here in hawaii is just some 20 minutes. The population would have about 15 minutes to try and get out of the way. To troy to get to shelter and to try to save themselves. So there is a bit of a heighten aid wariness with the rhetoric going on with President Trump and kim jong un of north korea. At this point in time they want everyone to know this is a false alarm. And they say it will never happen again. Sara sidner, cnn, honolulu. Round 2. North and south korea meeting again after more than two years without direct discussions, pyongyang says it is trying to improve relations with its southern neighbor. The north has made very clear that it will not negotiate its nuclear weapons. North korea also says sanctions had nothing to do with why they agreed to talk. For now both sides are focusing on how the north will participate in the Winter Olympics next monday in south korea. For the very latest, were joined by Cnn Senior International correspondent ivan watson who is monitoring things for us from seoul. Anything more were learning about these current meetings, ivan . Yeah, we learned from the south Korean Reunification Ministry that north korea has basically said it would be willing to have another round of discussions to take place on wednesday, january 17th at the peace house. Thats also within this compound on the Demilitarized Zone where todays working level discussions are taking place. And wednesdays proposed talks would be at a high level unlike the talks that are taking place today. So were getting into a rhythm of diplomacy here that was opened up last tuesday with the first facetoface talks in some two years and is now progressing to essentially now work out the nuts and bolts of trying to get a north korean delegation to the upcoming Winter Olympics, which will be held here in south korea in pyeongchang starting in february. The talks that are taking place today are not at the ministerial cabinet level. Theyre kind of lower level officials who come from various cultural organizations from north and south korea. Among the people gather sad woman from north korea. She is the leader of something called the moranbong band. That suggests that north korea would like to send that band to the Winter Olympics in addition to the tae kwon do demonstration team, the cheerleaders, the north korean journalists, the art troupe that are all also supposed to be attending. A total of two north korean athletes who are actually qualifying for the sports event. Part of todays discussions are revolving around where to put the stage for the Performance Group that is planned to come from pyongyang. Natalie . So ivan, this next stage of meetings that you say will involve higher level officials, what does south korea plan to bring to the table . Do we know . Well, possibly one of the things that they could bring would be their proposal that was brought up at the initial round of talks last tuesday, which was to resume reunions between relatives who have been separated for more than half a century by the demilitaryized zone, the holdover of the korean war of the 1950s. Now when relations were better between seoul and pyongyang, there were these emotional meetings taking place, in some cases between siblings who havent seen each other for decades. Again, highly emotional. What we have heard from the south koreans is that in response to this proposal last tuesday, the north koreans raised an entirely separate issue. That being the defection of april of 2016 of 13 workers from a north Korean Restaurant in china to south korea. 12 waitresses and one man who was working at that restaurant, which pyongyang it was highly embarrassing for the north korean regime. And they quickly accused the south Korean Intelligence Agency of kidnapping all 13 people, a charge that the south koreans have denied. So it goes to the fact that there seems to be some negotiation, some bargaining under way about something as seemingly benign as trying to reunite long lost families divided by the war. Natalie . Always more complicated than we could even imagine. Thank you so much, ivan watson for us there in seoul. Next up on cnn, every minute counts. Rescuers in california are hoping to find people who went missing days ago after deadly mud slides. And we will show you how passengers reacted seconds after their plane right there skid off its runway in turkey nosedown towards the sea. Money managers are pretty much the same. 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Which helps provide for wins family. And adi the goats family too. Because his kids eat a lot. All, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. Green mountain coffee roasters. Packed with goodness. Im jimmy, this is my definition of fresh since 1983. Rescue workers in Southern California are still combing through the wreckage after last weeks mud slides, searching for survivors. But there is not much hope left at this stage. Right. 20 people are now confirmed dead and at least four still missing. Thousands gerted sunday for an emotional candlelight vigil to honor the victims. Cnns Paul Vercammen has more now from california. Reporter a week after that mudslide, theyre now calling it more of a search and recovery. And look over here. You can understand why. How could anyone survive this . This is the 101 freeway, that critical artery that links los angeles and san francisco. And to the north of here, as this cleanup continues, they are complaining because the businesses there are open. This is a heavily, heavily relied on tourism region. As far north, more than a hundred miles in morro bay shop owners saying we are giving kayak tours. You can come up here. We heard this from hotels, restaurants. But its inaccessible. And they say they just need the business. They need this freeway back open. And take a look at the hard work that has been going on. Over here working to clear up the other side of the 101. We can see them reckoning with all of this mud. And they were thanking all of these first and these second responders throughout this area and in montecito. Because they have been working 12hour shifts, 24 hours, all weekend long. And theyre getting creative. How do you reckon with all this mud . And how do you reckon with a bowled theyre weighs multiple tons. In one estimate there are some bowleders that might way 20 tons. We saw them sink the holes, drill holes. Theyre worried about more rain to come. After they sunk in the holes, drilled the holes, they were going to put in a special agent. And this agent can dissolve the boulds in 24 hours. So one massive rock could become broken into seven pieces in no time. Thats the kind of stuff they are reckoning with in what has been a heartbreaking week in montecito. Im Paul Vercammen. Now back to you. Well, im not expecting them to say they can dissolve a boulder. All right. Way to go, workers. They need some of that. Well, were going to turn to another part of the country. The next storm to make its way across the u. S. Could drop a lot of snow and ice on a lot of people. Pedram javaheri here with us to Tell White House is goius who i were in the heart of winter. Certainly we have it slated across all portions of the u. S. Take a look at the central portion, especially as you work toward the north. The arctic weather is in place. The wintry weather is in place. 21 states are underneath winter storm warnings, advisories, watches, all of this for accumulating snow. Working your way toward the Northern Tier of the dakotas into wisconsin, minnesota, were talking 30 to 45 below windchills this morning. At this hour, sitting around minus 42 in a few spots. We know across some of the states in the northern portions have delayed classes for early monday morning and pushing it back. Some school is cancelling class because of the dangers of being outdoors when we have windchills of 10 00 a. M. , 11 00 a. M. Of minus 40 in fargo, north dakota. We dont want kids outside waiting for school bus. When you talk 30 to 40 below and approach 50 below, it literally ticks a couple of minutes. You take a couple of minutes to check your mail, thats dangerous enough to cause permanent damage to your skin in such search. Which is why schools have implemented some of the closures. It is widespread, but notice the accumulations are light. 2 to 4 inches. Maybe 4 to 6 inches. Work your way towards the south. This is where the problem began from austin, to san antonio. Dallas could be in line for this as well. About a quarter of an inch of ice could accumulate in some of these spots. We do have winter storm warnings across the region as well. Were watching this carefully, if not road travel that sim packed. Bigtime air problems possible as we good into monday afternoon. Gosh, from the north down to texas. All right, pedram, thanks. Yesterday we reported on a passenger jet that skidded off a runway at a turkish airport. Now were getting stunning new images. If they could get any more stunning than the one weve seen, that one right there. 168 people were on board that airplane when this happened saturday. You can see the planes nose dangerously close to the black sea. A passenger took this video of passengers moments after the incident happened when Pegasus Airlines is fortunately able to report no one was hurt. Thats amazing. The only reason it didnt plunge into the sea according to reports is that the wheels of the airplane got stuck in the mud. Lets hear it for that. Gosh. Officials in florida are praising a shuttle boat captain whose quick thinking saved the lives of all 50 people on board. The shuttle was heading to a casino boat when a fire started about a half a mile from shore. The captain turned the bet around as soon as he noticed the flames. And thats what made it easier for emergency workers to reach people who jumped overboard to escape the flames. 15 passengers suffered injuries, including smoke inhalation. Coming up here, he has come under criticism at home and abroad. What south africa is doing about President Trumps purported vulgar remarks. Thats here as we push on. Youre watching cnn newsroom. Jen, ive got questions. Boots or flipflops . Boot great. Smokey or natural eye . Ugh, natural. Good choice. How about calling or texting . Definitely calling. Puppies or kitties . Sorry, cats. Dry eyes or artificial tears . Wait, thats a trick question. Because they can both get in your way. Thats why it is superimportant to chat with your eye doctor if youre using artificial tears a lot and your eyes still feel dry. Next question. Guys, its time for some eyelove we know life can be hectic. Thats why, at xfinity, weve been working hard to simplify your experiences with us. Now, with instant text and email updates, youll always be up to date. You can easily add premium channels, so you dont miss your favorite show. And with just a single word, find all the answers youre looking for because getting what you need should be simple, fast, and easy. Download the xfinity my account app or go online today. Welcome back, everyone. Good to have you back with us. Im cyril vanier from hq here in atlanta. Im natalie allen. Lets update you on our top stories. A floor has collapsed inside the building of the jakarta stock exchange. Its unclear what caused it or if there are any casualties. It happened midday near an entrance where tourists tend to gather. A source says most people have been rescued. Suicide bombers have killed at least 26 people in the iraqi capital of baghdad. This happened in a busy square in the center of the country. Authorities report 90 people were wounded and the number of dead is expected to rise there has been no claim of responsibility so far. U. S. President donald trump says he is not a racist. Thats in response to allegations he used a vulgar term to describe several african countries. His comments come as the Government Faces a possible shutdown on friday, with democrats making demands on an immigration deal before theyre willing to cooperate. Mr. Trumps alleged slur against the african countries came during a key immigration meeting with members of both parties. Like most things in politics these days, the democrats and republicans dont agree on what he said or if he even said it. Democratic senator dick durbin laid out the words that the president reportedly said. And Lindsey Graham basically agreed. However, two other senators tom cotton and david perdue seemed to alter their story, going from we cant remember if he said that to a more emphatic denial that he actually said that. Are you saying the president did not use the word that has been so widely reported . Im telling you he did not use that word, george. Im telling you its a gross misrepresentation. I dont know how many times you want me to tell you that. Im telling you i didnt hear it either. All i can say is i was immediately in a meeting afterwards where those who presented to the president our proposal spoke about the meeting. And they said those words were used before those words went public. So thats all i can tell you. I heard that account before the account even went public. Well, it should not come as a surprise that the reported comments did not go over well in africa. South africa is among the latest countries to react. It says its lodging a formal complaint with the u. S. Embassy. David mckenzie is in johannesburg. He joins us live. David, tell us more about the reaction where you are. Not just the government, but also how people, how south africans feel about this. Well, cyril, i think people across the continent kind of led the way. And then the african governments and african diplomats followed by following closely in this controversy, and now piling on as it were against the president s comments and the diplomatic corps. So as you say, today the south African Department of International Relations cooperation will be hauling in the head of the embassy for what is seeing why he is dressing down, asking them to explain the comments attributed to President Trump. There is a big debate in the u. S. Of whether these comments were racist or even whether the president of the United States is a racist. Far less debate on the african continent that i have seen, the assumption for many africans on social media, just people im speaking across the country is the president is a racist, and that is just the latest comments attributed to him that really convince the mind of africans. This is a very challenging moment for american diplomats in the country as illustrated by that latest move by the south african government. Cyril . How do you think ultimately this ends up impacting u. S. Relations on the african continent . Beyond the symbolism and calling in the number two of the embassy . Well, a lot of it is symbolic, including that move as you say. Whether its a longterm reaction or just another controversy that will fade away, it remains to be seen, sisterinlaw. But there is a sense, i am sure, and from officials i have spoken to over the last few months from the american side that the president isnt helping their actions within the african context. Because every time Something Like this comes out or is leaked, it makes their work more difficult in countries where they have good relations and tricky relations. Also worth remembering that the u. S. Military is heavily parts west and east africa and they depend on african counterparts to help them in the fight against terror, particularly. So this all really doesnt help the u. S. When it comes to working on the african continent. Cyril . Cnns David Mckenzie in johannesburg. Thank you very much. Meantime, the opinion Authority President says the president s middle east plan is not a deal of the century, but ah slap of the century and palestinians will overturn it. Mahmoud abbas seemed to confirm reports the Trump Administration is signaling that the town should be the capital of a future palestinian state. President trumps recognition of jerusalem as israels capital have angered palestinians who want East Jerusalem for their capital. Mr. Abbas said the move disqualifies the u. S. From a leading role in peace talks. For more, Oren Liebermann joins us from jerusalem. The anger on the part of the palestinians understandable and certainly no surprise. Exactly. We havent seen a speech that was this defiant from palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in years. Much of that anger was directed at two countries. First, israel who he accused of violating and ignoring the oslo accords which is the bedrock of relations between the israelis and palestinians. And second, he turned husband anger to the United States, who he once again rejected as a mediator in a peace process. He also singled out two specific members of the Trump Administration for added criticism. First, u. S. Ambassador of the United Nations nikki haley. And then u. S. Ambassador to israel david freedman. Those two have been openly critical of the palestinians. What is interesting, he didnt stop there with criticizing other countries. Abbas went on to criticize the arab states saying we dont interfere in your affairs. Stay out of ours, basically. And that appears to be a reference, a although he didnt mention any countries to saudi arabia which is working hand in hand with the Trump Administration on an israelipalestinian peace deal. Abbas very clearly rejecting whatever it is the u. S. Would put on the table. The peace plan had been largely mysterious, but abbas appeared to confirm part of it when he said that the u. S. Was proposiig abudis. A palestinian neighborhood near jerusalem. But that is not what the International Consensus is on what a future palestinian state should look like. Natalie, the question now is what follows this very harsh rhetoric, this powerful language that comes from abbas. He didnt make any decisions. He doesnt have the authority to do that. Now is the second day of the Central Council meeting. This is where the decisions are made. Will there be any strong decisions to follow up on what was a very strong speech. All right. Well wait and see. Oren liebermann for us in jerusalem. Thanks, oren. Pope francis is on his way the south america. Ahead the controversies that await him in chile and peru. Stay with us. Im jimmy, this is my definition of fresh since 1983. He gets the best deal on the Perfect Hotel by using. Tripadvisor thats because tripadvisor lets you start your trip on the right foot. By comparing prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. Saving you up to 30 youll be bathing in savings tripadvisor. Check the latest reviews and lowest prices. All right. We have live video here. That is the pope taking off for south america. The sixday tour will take him to chile and peru. This will be his first trip to chile since he became pope. Worshipers gathered in chiles capital santiago sunday before his visit. Though he is very popular there, still, not everyone is happy to see him. Here is why, with cnns rafael romo. Reporter homemade firebombs exploded before dawn friday at three churches in the chilean capital. Police say no one was hurt and the damage was minor. But the vandals threw pamphlets as they fled. One read pope francis, the next bomb will be in your robe. The incident just days before the weeklong trip to chile and peru. The violence a reminder of struggles both countries have faced with the catholic church. [ speaking spanish ] reporter we have to recognize that the church in chile has suffered the shocks of scandals, of coverups, and therefore we catholics have pending issues to settle and tackle. Reporter in 2015, the pope appointed a bishop accused of protecting alleged pedophile. While the bishop denied any wrongdoing, demonstrations are planned in santiago tuesday. The pope today represents what we thought was an organization that was going to support those of white house accused a priest of sexual abuse. And yet they did the exact opposite, supporting the image of the church, its representation and the aggressors. Reporter another issue, the rights of indigenous people, who have protested what they see as a history of oppression closely tied to the catholic church. Translator it is not enough for the pope to say my peace i give you. Because their peace has been dispossession, submission. Reporter francis is a much loved pope and the first from latin america who many followers eagerly await his arrival monday. Translator i hope the pope gets here as soon as possible. I wish he were staying much longer. Translator we welcome the pope who we are in need of here. People are in really bad shape there is a lot of robbery, a lot of bad things. So we need some spirituality. Reporter something the pope says he plans to deliver. Translator brothers and sisters of chile and peru, i greet you with affection. I want to share your joyce, sorrow, difficulties and hopes. I want to tell you that you are not alone and that the pope is with you, that the whole church embraces you, that the church sees you. Reporter it is the message of a womens prison in santiago hope to hear firsthand. Clapping and singing, they rehearse for a Live Performance in front of pope francis during his visit there. Translator its a very beautiful and happy occasion because it was done here by the women who are deprived of their freedom. Im excited to know that the pope is coming. I feel blessed. Reporter rafael romo, cnn. And after the break, why a Silicon Valley veteran says giving your kid a smartphone is like giving them a bottle of alcohol. And by the way, he should know. He helped create the iphone. Well see you on the other side. Lets go to sumatra. Wheres sumatra . Good question. This is win. And thats wins goat, adi. The coffee here is amazing. Because the volcanic soil is amazing. Making the coffee erupt with flavor. So we give farmers like win more plants. To grow more delicious coffee. That erupts with even more flavor. Which helps provide for wins family. And adi the goats family too. Because his kids eat a lot. All, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. Green mountain coffee roasters. Packed with goodness. Alright, i brought in high protein to help get us moving. And help you feel more strength and energy in just two weeks ill take that. Yeeeeeah ensure high protein. With 16 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. Ensure. Always be you. You wont see these folks they have businesses to run. They have passions to pursue. How do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters, ship packages, all the services of the post office right on your computer. Get a 4 week trial, plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale. Go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. But on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. Like most people. Fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. Fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. Im glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. For some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. And improves function. 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You probably no longer notice how much you use them. Its awes some. Or not. One of the people responsible for the iphone says the device he helped create can be as addictive as alcohol and its past time to start thinking about it. Former apple exec spoke with our lori siegle. You had a very end gral role in creating the iphone. Correct. I was one of the leaders of the team to create the device. Reporter at the time were you thinking about screen time and addiction . Were any of those conversations happening behind closed doors at apple . Absolutely not. We were just taking something that people used on a regular basis, their lap tops and phones and putting them together. We never thought this would be what it is today. Reporter you as someone who had firsthand experience creating the iphone, a device that i myself and many other people i know are addicted to. What do you mean when you say this is a moment of unintended consequences . Well, if we look back 11 years ago, was the introduction of the iphone. And now we have a device in our pockets at all times. Right there usually on our bed stands too. So when you put all of these things together, this is the unintended consequences. That allow these products to become so important in our lives that its hard for us to put them down. This is definitely a Silicon Valley sized problem. How do you fix it . If you know youre addicted, you have to have some kind of way the measure what you do. We have scales for our physical life. Well can weigh ourselves. We have no scales for our digital life. The Companies Like apple, google, facebook, all of these, they collect all this usage information. They know what were doing. But we dont have that information back. Then we need controls to allow us to just like we do in the physical world, to set goals. But we need those tools and controls at the operating system level. Thats an interesting point. I mean, this idea that there would be even an alert for digital consumption. Thats what youre talking about. Exactly. And some people wont want any of them. And some people will. How do you negotiate the business decision and also the ethical obligation . Give the tools to the people who want them. Yes, maybe theyre going to spend less time, but maybe these people are going to be healthy and live longer so theyll buy more devices for an extra ten years. Until we have these controls, there are things we can do as an individual. Would you put a bottle of alcohol next to your kids bed . No, no, i wouldnt. I wouldnt tony. If you leave them with devices all night long in their bedroom, isnt that almost the same . But the difference is, as we didnt realize that our smartphone was the equivalent of a bottle of alcohol. Correct. But there are simple things we can do. Dont allow screens at the table when youre eating. It is too late to put the genie back this the bottle . No, its never too late. We have to be optimistic. I know steve jobs was your mentor. What do you think he would think about this moment . When he initially started apple, he said he wanted to make the computer for the rest of us. That dream has come true. If he was here today, im sure he would be saying many of the same things. And apple still wants to do the right thing for their customers. Let me bring in nirra ayala. Very happy were talking about this today. Youre a expert in House Technology and the author of hooked how to build habitforming products. Are smart phones bad for you . Thats the question as to a lot of things in life. It depends. There is no easy answer to the question of is it bad for you. Like any tool, its how you use it. Are hammers bad for you . Well, if you use them to build a house, theyre fantastic. If you use it to bash someones brains in, theyre very bad. So its really about how the technology is used. This is what scares me. I get the analogy with the hammer. What scarce me is we find out in 20 years time, and i say this as a parent of Young Children who are always asking for the iphone, that we find out in 20 years time that this is the next cigarette. Because its so addictive, because its got negative effects, a generation will have been adversely impacted. Thats my next question. Is this the next cigarette . Its not the next cigarette in that there is no barrier that is being crossed into the body. So as bad as this technology potentially could be for us, you know, we got to put this in perspective. Were not free basing facebook. Were not injecting instagram here. These are behaviors. And look, some people do have behavioral addictions, right . People gamble obsessively. People have sex addictions. People have food addictions. It doesnt necessarily need to be a drug that addicts us because people can get addicted to virtually anything. Now what is different is these technologies are designed to keep us coming back. As user, is there anything we need to know . Is there anything we need to be doing . In your talks, you explain a lot of the applications, a lot of services, the facebooks, the twitters, the instagrams, et cetera, they are designed as you just said to keep people coming back there is that trigger. I really encourage people to read your book and hear your talks there is a trigger that people keep coming back to because they want that reward. Is there something we need not to moderate or use but to use it better, in a way that at least is not harmful . Right. So there is two things i want people to know. Number one, this is not an accident. The fact that these products are designed to keep you coming back is not a mistake. Its n not an accident. These products are built by people who understand what makes you click and tick better than you understand yourself. That being said, the worst takeaway from this is that you think youre powerless. There has been several studies done on addicts of hardcore drugs and alcohol that find that people who believe that they are powerless to resist temptations are the most likely to relapse. So the most important thing you can take away is number one, yes, these products are potentially addictive. But number two, there is so much you can do to resist that addiction. To put the technology in its place. One of the most simple things you can do is to get control of those triggers. 2 3 of people who own a smartphone never bother to change the notification settings on their phone. Thats ridiculous. It will take 15 minutes. Block that ping that keeps bringing you back to facebook so you can check it on your schedule, not on facebooks schedule. This is really really simple stuff that all of us can do. And you know what . Will is nothing those tech makers can do to stop us. Im blocking that thing after this interview. Last question, ive heard you say all of this kind of technology can also actually be used for the better good, for greater good. It can help us live happier, more contented lives. Why do you say that . Absolutely there is no way to separate what makes a product potentially adiagnosticive from what makes it good and fun to use and user friendly. I mean, the reason we find ourselves so engaged by the products is they are designed so well, we want to use them. Thats not necessarily a problem. Thats what we call progress. Think about it for a minute. Do we want these products to be hard to use, to be things we dont enjoy using . Of course not. Thats ridiculous. Its up to us to take these technologies and make sure we use them responsibly. And look, there will be an adjustment period where we need to figure out how to make sure we can control these technologies so they dont control us. Nir eyal, really glad we spoke to you. Thank you so much. Interesting perspective there. Were going to take a break. Im going to take off all these silly instagram notices. Thanks, cyril, for that. Thanks for watching this hour. Well be right back with our top story. Jack and jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. All because of a burst water pipe in their house that ruined the Hardwood Floors in their kitchen. Luckily the Geico Insurance agency had helped them with Homeowners Insurance and the inside of their house was repaired and floors replaced. Jack and jill no longer have to fetch water. They now fetch sugarfree vanilla lattes with almond milk. Call geico and see how affordable Homeowners Insurance can be. Call geico phone maddie. You have everything you need right inside you. 9 out of 10 u. S. Olympians grew up drinking milk. Its got natural protein and balanced nutrition to help your kids grow strong and milk life. Im jimmy, this is my definition of fresh since 1983. When it comes to travel, i sweat the details. 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