Taxes and spending always a president ial debate issue. New and incredibly detailed reporting from the New York Times gleaned from 18 years paints a picture of the president as a money manager mapping millions of dollars of losses, a crippling debt load and year after year of avoiding federal taxes. The president last hour on twitter calling the story nonsense. He says it ignores the value of his assets and denies one he denies one of the times core findings. The president the documents show paid nothing, nothing in federal income taxes for 11 of the 18 years the time was examined and he paid 750 750 in federal income tax the year he won the white house and his first year in office. The documents also show a history of massive write offs. An on going battle over a 73 million tax refund and a foreign money boom thanks to mr. Trump holding the presidency. Importantly, the president faces a money crunch. He is personally on the hook for 421 million of debt and loans. Most of that debt coming due within the next four years. Rare is the day that you see this. A six column headline in the New York Times. The details in these stories are many and they blow to pieces the president s tall tails about his midas touch as a business man. Fake billionaire. What these tax documents unearth about the president s finances. John, a scathing line from the New York Times report, quote, mr. Trump has been more successful playing a business mogul than being one in real life. The times pulls back the curtain to tell a story at odds with the public persona he worked so hard to create. Instead, the reality is a tax avoider that presided over hundreds of millions of dollars of business losses and is crushed by a mountain of debt. This according to the paper. The system rewaurds rich people that lose a lot of money. They can write off the losses and the average citizen has paid more to support americas military and roads and schools and democracy than the president has. Now nearly half of americans pay no income taxes. Thats mainly because of how low the income is. The irs shows the average filer paid 12,200 in 2017. Thats 16 times more than what President Trump paid the same year but he sold americans on being a successful business man but according to the times, tax records showed he just played one on tv and found multiple ways to write off the cost of creating that image. Trump took huge deductions including 70,000 to take care of his hair during the apprentice and appeared to write off hundreds of thousands of dollars paying his daughter ivanka as a consultant to the Trump Organization. Appreciate the break down on the numbers. The president calls the times report fake news but they are real. Successful business man and deal maker. The truth is the jump empire, look at the documents, its wobbly and a giant ball of debt is due around the corner. One question is how this plays with Trump Supporters that now know, pick it up, read the newspaper, you pay a lot more in taxes than your president. The president says nonsense but the reporting is incredibly detailed. It is quite real. Its very detailed and we saw a classic trump response last night when he came into the briefing room. He avoided specific responses and he deflected and simply tried to wipe the whole thing away as a fabrication. Take a listen. Its going to come out. He tweeted out this morning complaining that the information was illegally contained. The times said it was obtained for people that had it legally so they had bad intents and he paid many millions in taxes but he also said i was entitled to depreciation and tax credits just like everyone else. So think about that line. Depreciation and tax credits just like anyone else considering that the amount he paid in taxes is less than the average taxpayer making 25,000 a year paying in 2017. The president is going to have to answer for that tomorrow night. I appreciate the live reporting from the white house. Lets continue the conversation. Joining me is the former state prosecutor. Thank you for your time today. Just as a prosecutor with experience at the federal and the state level, when you pick up the New York Times story and go through it, i saw your tweets. You say theres predicate to an investigation. But what jumped out at you is if you were either at the federal level or the state level is something that you would say i want to look at that now. And a prosecutor and the Real Estate Industry is notoriously difficult to investigate because of them some have losses and some have gains. In a sense trump is right. If theres legitimate losses hes entitled to claim them. Theres a difference between tax avoidance and evasion but what jumps out to a prosecutor is the last two things that the times talked about. First is the consulting fees apparently on the foreign deals about a third of the times says income i dont know if its income or revenue but a third of whats coming in is going out as consulting fees and we believe we know that at least in one of the deals it went to his daughter. Thats a big red flag. In foreign deals when you have huge amounts of consulting fees it raises lots of questions. Who is the money going to . Now here it may not be the usual red flag is are they paying off people in those countries. Here it may be that hes just figuring out a different way to pay his daughter who is otherwise an executive of the Trump Organization without payroll taxes. We are a little bit speculating but thats a very interesting piece. The other interesting piece is the business expenses. You need to ask under the tax law, are they legitimate because people do go to jail all the time for falsely claiming personal expenses as business but theres also a legitimate way to do that. So thats a predicate for an investigation as you said. So lets look at some of that. Just the deductions that raise some questions. Maybe they can be explained but if youre a prosecutor thats what you do. 70,000 on hair styling. 2. 2 million in property taxes. Writing that off as a business expense. Heres something that eric trump said about that compound. This is really our compound. He said in 2017 it was a personal property. So we dont know the answer. But it raises the flag, right . It has been gone over with a lot more information than we have here. But theres something claimed to be an Investment Property that is in fact a personal mansion, you shouldnt be deducting the property taxes from that. But are they doing it in a way that looks like theyre cheating . Like for example a series of companies or false records like in the Trump Organization. And that starts to look more criminal. 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We mean more coronavirus, new infections this week compared to a week ago. 21 states trending in the wrong direction. Thats the beige, holding steady. Ten states reporting fewer new infections now compared to a week ago. Ten states trending down but 21 states trending up. If you go back one month ago we had 16 states trending up. Just notice. Ill show you the two maps. Just notice how this moves around. Its different states dealing with the problem. Now you see the map today. A lot of red on the northern swath of the country and out here in the west. Thats where the problem is right now. You are looking for cases where theyre going to continue to rise. You look for high positivity rates and you have high numbers. The deeper the blue, the higher the positivity rate. 21 in idaho and 16 in iowa and 16 in wisconsin. You can see double digits across that part of the country. We came down the hill and below 40,000 new infections were now back above the new average of 40,000 new infections every day in the United States of america as we turn and close in on october heading up in the wrong direction. The trend at the moment is down. It came down and went back up and started to trend down a little bit and flat lined right here. Yesterday, sunday, thankfully, 266, every death is horrible but a lower number than normal. Sometimes in the weekends they go down and well watch that as the work week unfolds. That trend is down a little bit. The hospitalization trend down but notice, down but now were having cases again. Cases are going back up. Hospitalizations coming down and then it plateaus. It has plateaued right here. Something else we need to watch as we go into the week and then into october. So dr. Anthony fauci puts it bluntly. He says with more new infections at the moment were seeing the death numbers down but if you keep the case count rising, guess what will follow . More deaths. Certainly parts of the country that are doing well, but as you mentioned correctly, there are states that are starting to show uptick in cases and even some increase in hospitalizations in some states. And i hope not, but we very well might start seeing increases in deaths. In the hope not part he stresses wearing a mask and social distancing as does the cdc director. But dr. Atlas keeps telling the president that the data on masks isnt conclusive and the president keeps repeating that advice even though the rest of the team says its dead wrong. He shared his frustration with a colleague and is overheard complaining about dr. Atlas and his influence on the president. We have seen some of this play out in public. The cdc director overheard saying my colleague is giving the president bad advice. Its a great characterization of this, john. He was on a flight on friday from atlanta to washington d. C. A commercial airline in which he was overheard by an nbc reporter talking on the telephone to a colleague in which he said, everything he says is false referring to dr. Scott atlas. Now this is important because its the first time that he is publicly acknowledging that he was at odds with dr. Scott atlas who at this point appears to be the closest adviser to the president surrounding the pandemic. He has the president s ear and that much is clear. Thats worrisome to Public Health experts that i spoke to at the cdc that say dr. Scott atlas is providing the president with misleading information. Thats what dr. Robert redfield is saying here and the cdc is responding, not denying that he said this. Heres what they had to say in a short statement to us. Nbc news is reporting one side of a private phone conversation by the cdc director overheard on a plane from atlantahartsfield airport. He was having a private discussion regarding a number of points he made publicly about covid19. Earlier this year, dr. Scott atlas reportedly promoted a strategy of herd immunity as a strategy for the pandemic. Now in september, he has since denied using that strategy or promoting that strategy while part of the task force but theres other concerns including his comments about the efficacy of masks and also more recently, who is still vulnerable to the coronavirus, dr. Scott atlas minimizing the amount of americans that are still vulnerable to this. Putting the figure at around 90 so a lot of concerns here. A federal Health Official i spoke to earlier confirmed the spirit of nbcs story saying redfield is concerned about the stuff that dr. Scott atlas is saying. Again, john, dr. Scott atlas is a neuroradiologist. Hes not an epidemiologist so that should be concerning to the community at large. We know other members of the task force have grumbled privately as well. Lets continue the conversation with our cnn medical analysts. Its a question i hate to ask but lets go. You have the cdc director criticizing the doctor we know. Hes the doctor the president invites up on the podium. The other doctors arent invited anymore. They dont have the daily Task Force Meetings anymore. To have the cdc director overheard publicly saying the president is giving horrible advice from the doctor the president has picked to be at his side at a very precarious moment heading back up in terms of the new infection count back above 40,000 new infections a day. John, this is really confounding. Clearly the president is trying to surround himself by yes men and not by true experts in the field. People that are Infectious Disease spercialists, epidemiologists that worked in Public Health departments. I have done all of those things. You dont need a neuroradiologist from a Coronavirus Task force unless youre planning to read a whole bunch of mris of the brain. Thats not in his wheel house to be advising on this policy. I want you to listen here. One of the countrys premiere experts on cnn this morning saying that at this moment you see this case count going up and i just showed the states where you have positivity in high double digits. So they are obviously the source of the major problem right now but the doctor makes a very good point. Its everywhere again. Its even in places like new york, massachusetts, that seems to have controlled the epidemic. Its also very solidly all throughout the midwest and Rural Communities that hoped never to see this problem. This is a second wave not caused by the weather but caused by behavior. People loosen up their restrictions. The second wave in the doctors view caused not by the weather or at least not predominantly in his view. More by behavior. When youre at a baseline of 40,000 plus new infections and youre starting to go back up, how dangerous is that . Well even here in new york were starting to see cases tick back up. Some of that is related to behavior. People here that have done a very good job during the last several months, even here theyre getting tired of the social distancing, the mask wearing and theres no question that we have seen an increase in cases related to labor day, the timing fits that scenario perfectly. Then also the reopening of colleges and universities and schools more broadly that are probably contributing to some of this as well. We talked about this for sometime. Help me put the context on the table in the sense that the whole idea was if you social distance and if you use masks, if you try to flatten the curve that you dont eliminate the virus, you spread out the toll of the virus. So some people would say, we knew this was going to happen. Other people, you said it yourself, behavior makes it worse. It doesnt have to get as bad as its going to get. Listen to him saying here is his worry. The count of new infections is going up at a time, only 10 to 15 of americans have been exposed meaning theres a whole lot of people still at risk. 10 of americans have been exposed to this virus. The best modeling that i have seen that suggests there could be a higher rate of exposure suggests it may get as high as 15 but most of the models project around 10 . So a lot of the country is still very susceptible to this virus. Theres a lot of room for it to run. Its just horrible to hear that. Theres a lot of room for it to run. Explain to people watching what that means. Well, if you still have 90 of the population that is susceptible to this, a big proportion of them will likely be exposed and infected if we dont take the appropriate measures over the course of the winter and even if youre talking about a case fatality rate of lets say 1 , 300 million people, 1 of that is still far too many people that youre talking about getting sick and dying from this. And thats going to be overwhelming hospitals apart from covid. It would be nice if t