was threatened with prosecution in the classified documents case is now cooperating with the special counsel's office. and a murderer's daring escape caught on tape. wait until you see this video for the first time showing how that pennsylvania fugitive broke out of prison is still on the lam this morning. this hour of "cnn this morning" starts now. ♪ ♪ good morning. we have a lot to get to do this morning. numbers and interviews hours from now, also president biden will be heading off to meet with the world leaders at the g20 summit in india. he is facing a whirlwind of issues as he embarks on major foreign trip. here at home, fears of a government shutdown. a few weeks left to reach a deal with house republicans. meanwhile, the justice department says that the president's son will be indicted after his plea deal that collapsed. on chilly, house republicans are gearing up for a potential impeachment inquiry. this comes as biden is asking congress for more emergency funding for ukraine in its desperate fight against russia even though polls suggest americans' support may be waning. kim jong-un's alleged plans to meat with russian president vladimir putin and possibly supply weapons for their ongoing war. >> and president biden is waking up to some very rough poll numbers that could spell trouble for his re-election hopes. brand-new cnn polling out this morning, here is the headline. approval rating has sunk to 39%. and a majority of americans think his policies are making the economy worse. in a head-to-head match-up, biden is down or virtually tied with leading republican presidential candidates and this is notable, nikki haley is up in a hypothetical matchup against biden by six points. donald trump is up by one. mike pence is up by two. >> former vice president mike pence hoping to close the gap in the polls between he and his former boss. he called him out directly by name and ideology on the campaign trail in new hampshire yesterday. >> would substitute our faith in limited government and traditional values with an agenda stitched together by little else than personal grievances and performative outrage. republican pop u loose would eroud our constitutional norms. a leading candidate for the republican nomination last year called for the, quote, termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the constitution. the truth is the republican party did not begin on a golden escalator in 2015. long before that day before that tay was defined as the conservative party in america. the truth donald trump along with his imitators often sound like an echo of the progressives they seek to replace. >> joining me now is former vice president mike pence and republican presidential candidate. thank you for taking the time. the decision to do this and the decision to do it now, reflects what i have heard from many republicans who have been in the party like a long time now. why did you decide now is the time for that speech? >> labor day is behind us. we spent a good time in new hampshire in town hall meetings. republicans are sorting out not just who will lead our party in 2024 but what we stand for. i thought it was important to seize that moment and lay out what i think is a clear choice for republicans, whether we are going to continue on the path of those time honored conservative principles, strong national defense, american leadership on the world stage, limited government, fiscal responsibility and reform, a commitment to right to life and values, or whether we are going to follow what i call the siren song of populism. conservative principles. my former running mate, frankly, some of his imitators in the field are increasingly walking away from those same principles, phil. i want people to know that i am the most consistent, the most qualified, the most tested conservative in this race, and if i am the standard bearer, we are going lean forward a future for our party and country grounded in principles that always make america strong and free. >> the inflection point you talk about this moment for the party. you look at our most recent polling in terms of the issues itself. your consistency on conservatism is consistent. but in terms of the best candidate to handle the economy, trump 69%, ukraine 63%, government overeach 59%. isn't this war over on your side lost? >> well, i know there is many in the media, phil, that would like to declare this over. labor day is really when campaigns begin. primary campaigns. you know, we were in salem, new hampshire, a big crowd turned out. a number of the candidates were there. i have been stopping into places across iowa and new hampshire where i think republican primary voters, caucusgoers in iowa are just now really beginning to focus their attention. what's driving all of this is, of course, what you saw this morning here in cnn's latest poll. joe biden has weakened this country at home and abroad. the american people are done with the failed policies of president joe biden and now i think republican primary voters and, frankly, many independents and many democrats around the country are looking for that leader and looking for that agenda that will restore our economy and ensure our national security and generations to come. >> you invoked president ronald reagan repeatedly over the course of yesterday. he was kind of the singular mount rushmore for conservatism for the last several decades. i want to play something for you from 2016. listen. >> i came to the republican party because of ronald reagan. we can emulate his dignified and civil way. carrying himself as president. i have a sense of this man. i have a sense of his heart. i have a sense of his hands on style of leadership and for all the world he reminds me of ronald reagan. donald trump may have achieved great heights in business and industry and in the world of entertainment, but his heart is with everyday americans. >> so, obviously, the first sound was from last night. the second was from 2016. i think my question is, do you regret the comparison between trump and ronald reagan back then? >> no, not in the least. when donald trump asked me to be his running mate we sat down and talked -- >> back then -- >> no, in 2016, donald trump promised to govern as a conservative. many people believed when he chose mean, someone in the conservative movement since the days of ronald reagan, it was evidence of the sincerity of his purpose. phil, we did govern as conservatives. we stood strong on the world stage. we rebuilt our military. we stood with our allies and stood up to enemies and achieved extraordinary security. with regard to growth in the economy, we cut taxes, rolled back regulations, unleashed american energy. we could have done a better job on fiscal responsibility and reform. because hopeful we would get there. we stood without apology to the right to life. what i said yesterday in new hampshire is donald trump and many of his imitators in this field are walking away from those very same principles. they didn't begin with ronald reagan. actually, i think as ronald reagan often said, they came from the heart of a great nation. i am proud of the record of the trump/pence administration. but i think republican primary voters have a choice to make whether we are going to stay on that conservative agenda or whether we are going to drift off to the populism that many are giving voice to today. >> where i struggle with what you are saying right now is trump in 2016 was not a conservative principles through and through candidate. even on issues, you know, abortion was tough. he eventually got to kind of where you are, wasn't there in the beginning. in administration, his trade policy is a complete anathema to what conservatives have been pushing on trade for a long period of time. it was almost his willingness to diverge away from traditional ideology which was a draw, more aligned with you. i think that's where i get stuck. i don't understand how you say he is different now than in '16 on policy side. >> i just -- tune in. turn up the volume. because the message is changing right now. it really is. and not just the president. but some of his -- >> did he ever care about policy? >> some of the other -- >> did he care about policy? was that ever the reason he was elected president in the first place? >> i think we were elected in 2016 to turn this country around after the slowest economic recovery since the great depression under barack obama and to turn back this kind of rising tide of socialism that, of course, has come of age under joe biden and a party largely driven by the philosophies of bernie sanders. we ran on that agenda, and i am incredibly proud of the fact that trump/pence, the administration was a conservative administration. you speak about trade. president trump did introduce the notion of fair trade as a part of free trade, but we also went out there and worked hard. i traveled the country to canvas and develop support for what became the largest trade deal in american history, the usmca. we re-did our trade deal with south korea. with regard to national security -- >> you sat down with kim jong-un. he had the helsinki press conference with president putin. removing troops from certain places i can't fathom is in line with why yoere you are on natio security issues. none of those things are the congressman pence i supported long ago would have supported. and i think widely understood as your approach -- >> phil, what was there to say? we had the largest increase investment in our national defense since the reagan add mrngs. we held our allies in europe responsible for their commitment to live up to our common defense. our nato allies were spending $100 billion more in common defense. we renegotiated our common defense agreement with south korea. of course, we unleashed our military. they took down the isis caliphate. 58 cruise missiles, twice into syria. took down salman any. we demonstrated the ability to use our american force. what i hear from the former president and, frankly, from others -- >> how do you -- >> well, it's war raging in eastern europe. i hear the former president saying we will end it in a day. the only way you end the war in ukraine in a day, phil, is by giving vladimir putin what he wants. vivek ramaswamy's idea is to do that, let putin keep what he has taken and promise ukraine will never join nato and adds to that a willingness to let china have taiwan after 2028. incomprehensionfully, vivek, who a good man, i met him a couple years ago, good family man, said we wouldn't use military force to defend israel in an attack by iran. this is the populous strain and pulling back from american leadership on the world stage that was not how we operated in the trump/pence administration. we were strong. we had a strong military. we stood with our allies w he stood with israel as no administration into my lifetime had done. and i believe that now we are hearing a withdrawal from american leadership in the world. we're being told that we have to make a choice between solving problems here and the wake of the failed policies of the biden administration or leading in the world. as i said many times, anybody that says we can't solve the problems here at home and be the leader of the free world has a pretty small view of the greatest nation on earth. >> we are running out of time. given the fact five plus years of your loyalty to the former president, how is it possible that -- you have been unflinching and never broke with him while in office, no matter what he did, including issues that you clearly idealogically would have disagreed with. how are you the best messenger for this message at this moment in your party? >> i honestly believe when people look at the long scope of my career, and you have known me for a long time, even though my hair has gotten a lot lighter than your hair has in those years, i was vice president of the united states. i am incredibly plowed of that record. we don't elect co-presidents in america. i am proud of the fact that most americans know me as that loyal vice president standing alongside the president when we rebuilt our military, revived our economy, stood for the right to life and values. and i stood loyally with him until a day came that my oath to the constitution required me to do otherwise. what i hope in the course of this campaign is that americans come to know me a little bit more like you do, i was a conservative governor that showed you can cut taxes and balance budgets as we did in the state of indiana, expand educational choice and even reform health care and i hope people know me as a conservative leader in the congress that fought the big spenders in my own party. we have a national debt the size of our nation's economy. we have to have leadership in the white house that knows how to get congress off the dime, take on the big challenges facing our nation, particularly our national debt, and i want people to know i am the most qualify, the most proven, tested, most experienced conservative in the race. >> it was important remarks, as you know, at a critical time. post-labor day. former vice president kamala harris, thank you for coming in. >> really great to have the vice president here anytime. mar-a-lago i.t. worker news that he has flipped on former president trump in the classified documents probe. we will ask one of trump's lawyers from his second impeachment trial what could that mean for trump's legal strategy? 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>> this is interesting. we have seen other employees for the former president charged alongside him, walt nauta, they have been using attorneys by the trump pac. that's not happening for yucil taveras. he has gotten another attorney. he is cooperating with prosecutors. basically, he was threatened with the potential charges and agreed to change his tune. again, this is someone who was talking to other employees about the surveillance footage at mar-a-lago. prosecutors say there was an effort to try to destroy that footage. i want to go back to some of the indictment that lays out the conversations. yard line is referred to as trump employee number four. he is in a conversation with carlos the property manager. it says he "trumping democracy: an american coup" employee four the boss wanted the server deleted. he would not know how to do that and didn't believe he would have the rights to do that. trump employee four doled doll vera he would have to reach out to another employee. he insisted to trump employee four that the boss wanted the serve he deleted and asked what are we going to do? even in the indictment you see the sort of reticence of yucil taveras to go along with this plot to try to destroy this surveillance footage and now he is officially someone cooperating with prosecutors again to avoid charges in this case, phil. >> clearly something that the prosecutors have been looking for. now they have it. sara murray, great reporting as always. thank you. let's talk a lot more about this and many more new legal issues facing the president. senior legal analyst elie honig is with us at the table. also joining us david schoen, one of the attorneys who represented trump during his second impeachment trial. great to have you both here. elie, let me begin with you on significance of yucil taveras cooperating here? >> it's a good win for prosecutors. he was person identified in the indictment as trump employee four. are it's clear that some of the energies in the indictment some of the allegations are based on testimony they got from him. important to know, yucil taveras didn't have direct contact with donald trump. he direct contact wde oliveira. he is going to say this other guy told me that trump wanted me to do this. still useful for prosecutors but not necessarily game over. david, we hear people say, sorry, i can't answer questions, i can't talk, advice of counsel, or i am not going it testimony, right, because of counsel that. is not the case with donald trump who told hugh hewitt that he would testify. i just want people to listen to this sound. >> if you have to go to trial, will you testify in your own defense? >> oh, yes, absolutely. >> you would take the stand? >> that i look forward to. >> not only would he, he would look forward to it. is that something you would recommend in any of these pending cases? >> listen, in my view, it's always the client's decision. i think the law recognizes that also. and whenever someone's life or freedom is at stake, i think it's very important for that person to make the decision. donald trump has wanted to testify before. he wanted to testify in the e. jean carroll case. lawyers counselled him otherwise. it's prudent advice for any defendant, generally. donald trump bleeelieves he is great communicator, has proven to be a great communicator, so i would expect him to testify. >> you would expect him to testify. i want to get into what i am fascinated by, this argument over the 14th amendment and whether it means that former president trump is disqualified from being on the ballot in states to run for president. the secretary of state of georgia, brad raffensperger, wrote a really interesting and compelling op-ed in "the wall street journal" about this. the headline is, i can't keep trump off the ballot. he went into his legal rationale and reasoning why. he quotes luke bryan, fellow georgian, quote, most people are good and then he says most of the time they will get it right, trust the voters. to you think he is right on the law there? >> i think he is right, number one, on policy. by the way, the next line is most mamas qualify for sainthood. that's the best line of the song. >> i concur, david. >> i think he is right as a matter of policy fundamentally. there are terrific arguments on both sides of this question. the two professors who wrote the university of pennsylvania law review article spent a lot of time and thought going into this. they recognized there are problems with the arguments. they dismissed those problems. i agree with those who oppose their point of view legally. i think there are many reasons why this 14th amendment doesn't apply. the president, first of all, i think that article 2, section 1, sets out the qualifications for president. those are exclusive. i think the text of the language supports that argument. i think they had an opportunity to charge under 2383 insurrection didn't to that. i new this would render the second impeachment trial a nullity. i think their interpretation is subject to great abuse. they talked about indirect support qualifying to disqualify someone. they consider broad range of conduct. i don't think that was what was intend. there are a number of other legal arguments. it's a serious argument. i am afraid also when we see different states taking different positions on presidential election, that in itself is problematic as the law recognized. >> the text that david is pointing to here, and this could very likely go up all the way up to the supreme court, they will have to interpret the constitution as they read it, how do you read? >> i am not buying this 14th amendment argument. i think had happens when law professors go crazy. >> you think this is crazy? >> i do. here's why. there is no enforcement mechanism. the constitution tells us nothing about how this works. who gets to make this incredibly grave decision? was a former official -- >> their argument is it's not even a question because they argue it's laid out. >> that's a ridiculous argument. they are saying, okay, we are just going to have individual secretaries of state unilaterally deciding? yes, in my view, even though donald trump has never been charged with insurrection, i think he committed insurrection, therefore, he is off the ballot and the american voters can't vote. that is anti-democratic and a made-up process. that's not in the constitution. that's not in law. congress has 150 years, haven't passed the law. the problem is nobody told us how it works. you can't make if up now and apply it three years in the past. that would violate a different portion of the 14th amendment, due process. it's crazy. >> elie's position is supported by an 1869 case. the quiters address that. they say it was wrongly decided. justice chase sat on that case. he said there has to be a mechanism. congress has to act. it's not self-executing. >> john eastman, who is here one of the co-defendants is talking. he went on laura ingraham, spoke with her last week, making claims unfounded like pence could have certified the election in a different way, could have paused the certification of biden's win, et cetera. eastman's attorney was on with cnn's kaitlan collins last night and she asked him about the strategy of eastman doing these interviews. >> are you worried those comments could be used by prosecutors against your client? have you advised him not to speak publicly? >> we need a decision a long time ago in this case. our view is dr. eastman is innocent. he has nothing to hide. he is clear will i innocent. he was -- and we made the decision that, risky though it may be, to be as open as we can with journalists such as yourself and with anyone who wants to talk to us for the most part, we are happy to talk to them. >> so it is potentially risky for him to be speaking publicly? >> sure. >> a really interesting exchange. that attorney is quite candid on these issues. david, you said it's up to the client? >> it's always up to the client to testify in trial against that person. but i do believe that's up to the client. here there is a difference between his maintained his innocence and has nothing to hide, and speaking voluntarily and publicly on the facts of this case. it's his right. i believe in transparency. but, you know, i am a fan of kaitlan collins and she made a strong point about it. i don't think elie honig would let his client speak like that. >> i would do all i could to stop it. >> we are all big fans of kaitlan collins. thanks very much. the huntington ber biden ca heading for indictment. why the justice department is reversing course. a showdown over funding for the war on ukraine. that fight could be around the corner. new reporting next. hoose new ne. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, inincluding mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. 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what's the news from this? where does this go? >> i mean, so the special counsel's team saying that they are going to seek an indictment, that, you know, says that there is not going to be another diversion agreement. that pretrial deal that they struck before avoid the prosecution on this. and that they are going it move forward. that's pretty serious. if they move forward with the same charge that they reached this deal on, that's a felony. that has ten years statutory maximum in prison. it's not often brought as a stand alone charge. he had possession of this gun in delaware while on drugs, and that's the letter of the law. >> you said there is a statutory maximum. you can't get over ten years? is there a statutory minimum? >> that would be the discretion of the case, taking in factor numerous considerations. >> they are moving forward with the charge in the gun case, which is serious. hunter biden's attorneys have been very outspoken and critical of this. last night one of his main attorneys was on msnbc and he said smacks of politics. take a listen to what he said. >> the facts haven't changed. the law, if it changed, only changed to make their case less strong, it has to have been the political influence, the improper political interference. where else other than a case in which they are cowering from the political pressure would somebody be charged with something that's unconstitutional? >> now, their attorneys are trying to enforce that pretrial diversion agreement, saying it was signed by biden and prosecutors. now the prosecutors say it wasn't signed by probation. it's not in effect. they are going no move forward with this indictment. a lot more here. >> indictment on gun crimes. the tax crimes has been the genesis of a lot of what abby was pushing back to. where does that stand now? >> they dismissed the charges. remember, they had a plea great. it fell apart in court, and that was it. that deal was over. but prosecutors asked the judge to dismiss it last month and the judge did to allow them to bring it in another jurisdiction where the alleged crimes took place. that was when biden was living in l.a. this was in washington, d.c. so they havei suggested they ar looking forward to bringing that. the question is what will the charges look like? will it be the misdemeanor he had the plea deal on or felony charge of tax evasion? hunter biden repaid $2 million in the taxes plus interest and penalties, so a big question here where that moves forward. lowell has indicated he would like this to end in some deal to avoid a trial, but it's going to really depend what the charges look like and the appetite of doj to reach a deal. >> fascinating. thank you. so a new cnn policy out this morning shows a zeep uphill battle for president biden heading into 2024. how will the white house and democrats respond? 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(♪) intestinal worms! whoa! heartworm disease! no problem with simparica trio! this drug class has been associated with neurologic adverse reactions including seizures. use with caution in dogs with a history of these disorders. for winning protection— go with simparica trio. - [narrator] every day, our lives are filled with choices, both simple and life-changing. what's not a choice? addiction to opioids like fentanyl. but even with opioid use disorder, you still have a choice. by choosing treatment, you choose family, your career and your life on your terms. choose change, california, and find medically proven treatment options at choosechangeca.org. this morning brand-new cnn polling. the numbers are looking rough for president biden. we have been talking about it all morning, the fact that it could be a troubling sign for democrats and the president's hope for re-election. 39%, nearly 60% of voters think biden's policies are making the economy worse. close to 70% of democrats want somebody else to run for president. his overall approval among democratic voters slipping the last month. with us to discuss van jones and former obama campaign manager and former obama deputy chief of staff jim messina. jim, straight away, this week i think playbook broke the news about a slide presentation that you had, which tries to counter a lot of democratic anxiety tied to the perception that a lot of these numbers seems to underscore, including a line, quote, historically, we are blanking bed wetters, grew in-'80s and '90s when republicans won all time. when hilary lost people didn't see that coming. we continue to believe every bad thing people say. i understand where that's coming from, and kind of the genesis of it. these numbers can't help your cause here in trying to convince your party of that. >> well, look, numbers are -- polls this far out an election year are just not correeive. the matchup versus him versus donald trump, those are the things we lacked alt. let's put aside all the political spin and let's look at the data. if you look at the cards that joe biden's campaign has versus the cards that the republicans have with donald trump, you would rather be joe biden in the democrats. to, yes, it will be a close election. it's an american election. all elections are very close. you would have the popular policies biden is running on versus the republicans who seem to want to focus on very contentious issues like abortion, other things that are taking rights away from americans. so that's the point i tried to make to my bed-wetting democratic friends. >> they loved that nickname. thanks for not swearing on morning tv, by the way. >> it's longstanding. you had a point in terms of the issues that are laid out in the slide deck in terms of why the theory of the case from the biden team, once you get one-on-one, into the critical states in universe of voters that will decide this election, they feel good about where they are, yet -- >> yet, van jones, can i take you to our backyard barbecue table in minnesota on saturday night with our friends who are saying, hearing from many people from many different walks of life, many are not feeling that data. what jim is saying is true. they are not living it. they are not feeling it. and there are liberals who are saying to me, you know, i am thinking about nikki haley a lot. and i just wonder what you think about that, van, as you try to you figure out why those facts that are good for biden are not translating in these polls. >> if jim says we are bed-wetters, invest in pampers and depends because a lot of people are terrified that joe biden is in real trouble and you can't talk about it. so that's what's going on. listen, jim is right. anybody wants to argue against jim messina is going to waste their time. and may in fact be true that a year from now things look very different because there has been a year of of a real campaign and all this kind of stuff. but right now today i think a lot of democrats look at these numbers and say the whispers are finally showing up in this data. people are talking behind their hand. they worry about joe biden. joe biden is like that grandpa that you love, that you believe in, you owe a lot, but you start to wonder, you know, would you give this grandpa a high-stress job for six more years or would you want something else for him? that's what's being talked about. people are scared to say anything about it, but i think it's important for us to have this conversation now. i think it's maybe the bottom for joe biden. he may go up as the economy improves. but right now the economy is getting better and fears about the economy are getting worse. we have to be honest as democrats that there is pain out there at the base of our party. people still don't feel these policies yet. and we have to make the case stronger. we can't say don't worry about it. we have to make a stronger case for the help that's on the way than we have so far. >> jim, to that point, i think some of the anxiety is based on the fact that the biden campaign is not all in launching, dropping tens of billions of dollars in ad buys. they are not on air all over the country spending a ton of money. my understanding is it's buy design, they are building for a reason and a purpose. do you think that's accurate? and what does that mean? explain that to people. >> well, i think there are doing what they should be doing. i agree with them. they need to make the case. they are doing that. they have the largest buy ever done this far out to african american and latino communities as well as young voters, which is their base. they have to make that point. their super pac launched a $13 million ad buy in battleground states yesterday. they are economic messaging to do what you are talking about, explain to voters what he has done, why it's good for them and most importantly, voters want to understand the future, what his plan for the future is, and that's what the campaign is doing. do they have a messaging challenge? yes. but they are taking it straight on and going straight at in a way that, you know, is earlier and bigger and more robust than the 2011 biden -- or obama campaign, which, of course, was incredibly well run, as van talked about earlier. >> yeah. incredibly well run. van, question to you about what do democrats do then? right? aside from maybe dean phillips? they are not saying put me in, coach. >> well, look, we do -- we have a year. we have more than a year. sometimes, you know, when the economy gets better, the opinion about the economy is sticky on the upside. it takes a while for people to feel better. the rate of inflation has come down but prices have not yet come down. as i said before, people's number one enemy is not joe biden and it's not donald trump. the number one enemy is check-engine light. the check-engine light. when that thing comes on, you have to spend a thousand bucks to find out what's wrong with the car sometimes, and you don't have it. so a lot of people are driving to work, worried about the check-engine light. they are literally $100 or $500, a wloen tire, a persistent cough that they are scared to get checked out, their insurance won't cover it, the checkup, but also what if something's wrong? you don't have the money. people are afraid of check engine lights and coughs. and until somebody makes it clear that not only they understand that, they are fighting for them, until the prices come down a little bit, not just the rate of the increase, but the prices, we are in some real vulnerability. what i saw in 2016, every time i came on and said i think donald trump is stronger than we think, i got beat up in 2016. but those of us who were, quote, unquote, bed-wetters then were right. so i say do not underestimate the pain out there. do not underestimate the real sentiment that may be worse than they show. it's not just about the talking. it's about the ligning. i don't think we are listening to the pain. if we don't listen, they will send us a message that we don't want next november. >> check-engine light and the cough. i think you're so -- you make a good point, both of you. thank you very much, van. thanks, jim. >> thank you. so, we are continuing to follow this now more than week-long manhunt for an escaped killer caught on video breaking out of prison. look at that. we are learning this wasn't the first time an inmate escaped the same way at that prison. new details ahead. more flexible way to move, with pods. save up p to 30% now for a limited time. whether you're moving across townwn or across the country. save up to 30% at pods.com todaday. for moms, from centrum. ♪ this new mom ♪ ♪ here i go ♪ ♪ i am strong and brave i know ♪ ♪ with a little time for me ♪ ♪ no doubt i will get through ♪ ♪ loving me is ving you ♪ ♪ new from centrum. the women's choice multivitamin brand. ♪ ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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