these cases. and what? the worst-case mario might be that you get a knock at your door from the sergeant at arms, maybe a slap on the wrist? best-case an aerial, politically, you get a badge of honor that you stuck it to the man. they were really more afraid of ignoring a doj criminal subpoena then a congressional one and they took their chances time and time again that the doj wouldn't prosecute you for laughing at a congressional subpoena. you know what else? in the past, that very thought process paid off. but now, this conviction, well this series of convictions, now puts the light back in the dog because when you are facing some jail time suddenly people start to take your requests more seriously. now, people like congressman jimmy jordan of ohio who, incels, you will recall was roundly criticized for, shall we say, not prioritizing congressional subpoenas aimed at him. now he is in leadership. so the big question is what we see the flood gates began to open and subpoenas about everything from the highly consequential to the trivial. all now of course having the weight of the threat of what these convictions can bring and that is now behind them. will it then mean greater transparency, more accountability on the issues that matter to you or will it be about retaliation? joining me now to discuss, california congresswoman barbara lee who is running for the senate seat that will be left vacant when senator diane feinstein retires next year. congressman lee, it's nice to see this evening, thank you so much for joining. i have to ask you because, this has been on my mind all day long thinking about this conviction, the subpoena now is back, really, it has some tease again. but, as you know, republicans have the house majority and they has not been shy to date talking about things that they intend to use against, perhaps, democrats. this is now an opportunity for some kind of, maybe not-for-tat, but okay, subpoenas mean something we are going to use them. what is your thought? >> nice being with you, laura. my thoughts on this, first of all, navarro and others have really chosen to side with the insurrectionists and they are getting justice at this point. secondly, we have to know and recognize that the republicans, the maga extremists republicans, are not doing their job for the american people. they are not delivering, there are not making life better for everyone. they are not ingesting inflation or the cost of living, addressing affordable health care or housing. they're going to do what they do, that's who they are. but the public understands what is taking place and i just have to say that i believe, and i have said from day one, that dome trump was running a criminal enterprise out of the white house. that is what is taking place. so, these are maga extremist republicans will do what they have to do or do what they want to do based on their own agenda, but we have a system of justice in this country that we are seeing play out now. of course, the wheels of justice are sometimes slow, but it is happening and that is what it's important. >> you know who's agrees with you congresswoman lee, about the idea of a criminal enterprise, the fulton county d.a., fani willis, who has got of course charged him and 18 other codefendants with accounts under rico the criminal enterprise statute. talking about what happened leading up to january 6th and of course overturning, or attempting to overturn the results in fulton county and georgia. that same d.a. wrote a scathing letter to your fellow person in congress, jim jordan, i'm going to quote here, your job destruction as a legislature does not include criminal law enforcement, no or does it include supervising a specific criminal trial because you believe doing so will promote your partisan political objectives. she's not really pulling any punches here and, as you know, people have been very, very, well, critical of her and other prosecutors who have gone after donald trump on behalf of her communities. so, his colleagues, by the way, they have been pointing out, when it comes to cases like this issuing subpoenas or trying to have an investigation about fani willis in particular, does this now open up a kind of pandora's box that this is now fair game and she might have to respond? >> what they are doing, all with all these maga extremist revelations, they're trying to took up what actually took place quite frankly. and they're going to do whatever they are going to do. but, what is important is to recognize that jordan and these maga extremist republicans are trying it to blur the lines in terms of our democracy, in terms of the three branches of government. they are interfering in activities and complaints and lawsuits that they don't have jurisdiction over. and so they are just trying to protect donald trump, they are part of his client, they are part of his cold, and in fact they need to, in the public i think is understanding this more and more and more, so they are going to do what they do. the public has to weigh in big-time, but i think that you see this system of justice working. >> congresswoman, the public is starting to weigh in more and more. cnn has a new poll out today and it shows that about three quarters of americans say that they are seriously concerned about president biden's age, that it might affect his physical, mental competence,'s ability to serve out another full term. you are also vying to fill a seat in the senate now that will be left vacant by someone who has been under the spotlight for quite sometime amid health declines and concerns. do you see the same criticism applicable to president biden in the way that it is being described? >> president biden, the biden harris administration has delivered for the people, and i think what is important is to look at the experience and what in fact has been done over the past few years since the biden harris administration has been in office. the inflation reduction act, passed the transportation bill, passed the chips bill, creating good paying union jobs, coming forward with areas that had not been even discussed as it relates to the climate crisis. so we have to look at what the president has done, we have to evaluate what he has done and what he is going to do in the future, and remember that experience counts. he has delivered for the american people and i am confident that they are going to evaluate him and grade him based on their lives and how their lives are getting better. we have not completely addressed inflation, but we are moving in the direction where people and the cost of living is becoming a heck of a lot better for many people, not for all, but getting better. so we have to keep on this course. >> i don't want to gloss over something you said, and it was something that i hope the audience has not missed because, frankly, the nuance of it is becoming more and more apparent in political talking points on the other side of the aisle. you said the biden harris administration. now, one of the things that has been said by at least one republican hopeful, governor nikki haley, former ambassador to the u.n., which was taken as a very crude and crafts notion that she thought that, somehow, because at his age president joe biden would not be able to survive his term and the now statements being made is that a vote for president biden is really a vote for a vice president harris. now, you are from california and obviously she was in the senate there. she was the attorney general, there you are quite familiar with her work obviously. she has taken a lot of criticism about her position as this advice president, a lot of criticism about her trajectory or ability to become the president of the united states having run before, obviously unsuccessfully. why do you think she is being targeted in particular as the talking point about what a vote for biden would mean? >> well, the biden harris administration has done a phenomenal job delivering for the american people. vice president kamala harris is a woman of color, she is a woman, very first time we have had a woman of color or a woman in the white house serving as our vice president. oftentimes people don't know how to even deal with this and it is really a shame and disgrace. so, she is doing her job. when the clinton administration was, in the clinton gore administration, when the bush cheney administration where we talked about the bush cheney administration. we are talking about the biden harris administration and the accomplishments that they made and what they are going to do in the future to make life better for everyone. >> being judged definitely as a black woman with a platform i have no idea what you're talking about congresswoman barbara lee, it's something that i should be familiar in some way shape or form. i hope you realize i'm waking you nodding in some way shape or form right now. nice to be with you this evening. >> nice being with you. >> i want to bring in david schoen everyone, steve bannon's lawyer and also then president trump's defense lawyer in a second impeachment trial. david, it is good to see you tonight thank you for joining me. i have to ask you about what i have been thinking about all day, the news has been covering the fact that there was this guilty verdict about navarro being in tempt of congress, i'm thinking about the future what this will mean of course in congress. what will it mean for subpoena power, what it means for a whole host of issues. you are probably thinking about it because your client, steve bannon, also had similar charges against him and convictions and he is now appealing. so, when you heard about navarro now having this guilty verdict what went through your head >> i think his conviction was a foregone conclusion once the judge ruled on the issues of law in case immolated the rulings in bannon's case, although a major difference in navarro's case is that the judge found that mr. neuronally proved executive privilege, had invoked and in our case it's not a question about that it was invoked by the president's lawyer, justin clark, and then during the course of the, just before the trial, president trump confirmed that he had invoked executive privilege and that was admitted to the jury. there are a lot of similar issues but steve bannon's case, one thing that has to be pointed out is that, maybe this gives mr. navarro some hope, the judge in steve bannon's case who ruled against him on all the legal issues, also let him out on bail pending appeal and made a specific finding that i've never encountered before in a case. that finding was that the trial judge found that it is likely that the ban and conviction will be reversed and that the legal issues he rules on, while his hands were bound by a court of appeals decision, cannot comport with moderate definition of willfully, or their judicial definition of willfully. it thinks there is a problem with the law and the conviction will be reversed. >> when you look at that issue and, of course, all these matters are going on appeal there is no doubt that navarro's case will also be appealed. he thinks all the way to the supreme court. your issue of executive privilege is different than what navarro is talking about because navarro did claim that trump instructed him to invoke the privilege. the judge found, no, i don't think, so there is no evidence of that. so it's a little different in that argument. but, the novelty of what you are describing, remind me, what do you mean that there is something that is likely to be appealed? is the fact that there was a contempt of congress because he didn't fight with the congressional subpoena so what would be the likelihood of being overturned? >> there are a number of extraordinary issues, conked did use militias to be appealed. what you are focusing on is the definition of willfully. the statute requires that you prove that the defendant willfully defaulted on the subpoena. however, this statute is unique in the way that the d.c. circuit is construed in the 1961 case called lick of okee. it says it doesn't matter what your reason is for not showing, up unless it -- it doesn't matter. and so, therefore, if you were a lot of executive privilege, or in this case, or large not only on executive privilege but his lawyer gave testimony in this case through affidavit declarations that he instructed bannon, it was not his privilege to waive, he was not permitted as a matter of law to testify or to comply with a subpoena in any way that was not his choice. and bannon hired the lawyer, but the judge said that i understand that, but you cannot rely on the advice of counsel. he goes, that is used to knock out whether it was willfully. i don't care, the law doesn't care if it with willful or not. you had a subpoena, you didn't show up, you didn't comply, therefore under -- you are guilty. but then the judge said that i think the volley is wrongly decided. that's not what we mean, the supreme court said that in 2019, 2022, that willfully means an intent to do something that the law forbid. you have to have a guilty conscience of mind. that isn't understood here, the only way he can comply with a law was not comply with a subpoena and he said to ticketed committee let's go to court. take it to a judge, if you judge orders me to comply i will comply. sorry, i cut you off. >> no, no, it's okay, i invited you to speak and i want to have the conversation and i'm glad to hear your insight. you're talking about bannon, i also want to distinguish about what is happening with navarro because law the arguments erasing in support of bannon, some will obviously be raised by council for navarro. but, there is that distinction of course in what trump said in the privileged executive when a court has ruled. little willful-ness though, for the layman listening, which is the big majority of the population, when you hear willful you think okay, well, you were told to do something. it did you choose did not to do it or what? and if you didn't have the evidence to support that you were instructed and you had the privilege behind you or some reasonable basis like that and you didn't comply, isn't that willful enough? that is going to be a hurdle for navarro and he also spoke about that on the courthouse steps. but, taking a step back to david, when you look at the big picture for all of this, right, some of the people now are using the congressional subpoena power themselves to the question the lady of congressional subpoenas, have now undermined the gravitas assigned to it. is that going to impact, do you think, the ability of future people to be subpoenaed and to fight? it >> i think you put your finger on a very important issue and, not surprisingly, i think a lot of people ought to be asking. so because you are asking it they will be. i think that is right. we have this retaliation business, nobody is tougher than representative lee and she spoke about this a few minutes ago with you. i think that is right. on the other hand, you have a movement in congress that has some measure to it. do you member of the january six committee wasn't convened, mccarthy and these others are raising holy hack that they violated protocol never been number four, they had no ranking minority member, but they convened a group called blagult bla g, that endorsed what happened. that the rules were followed and all that. i suspected that mccarthy, now that they are in the majority, they filed a minority race back then that that's the we are going to reconvene black and that the committee wasn't properly convened. there is no minority, member violated this rule not, rule of what we do see that kind of retaliation. we haven't yet, but if he meant what he said and i think, to be consistent he has to do that now. so, i don't know where it ends. >> -- has given them some bright ideas of our. if only david sean they had something to talk about beside the subpoenas. if only there was a government shutdown looming at the end of this month. well, i guess that is a different matter for congress entirely. nice to talk to you. >> nice to talk to you, thanks very much. >> coming up next everyone, there is breaking news. what rudy giuliani is doing tonight to try to pay his legal bills and what it has to do with the former president named donald trump. ♪ chevy silverado has whwhat it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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( ♪ ) all right, there's breaking news tonight everyone. donald trump is hosting a fund-raiser for rudy giuliani. we are learning just how deep in debt the onetime trump attorney is now. here to discuss -- a former federal prosecutor and contributing writer for politico and sarah matthews with his trump's white house deputy press secretary. good to see both of you here today. first we begin here, because the headline, trump is headlining and event to try to get rid of giuliani some money. i think it costs about $100,000 a plate, but there is might be millions of dollars in debt. this is something significant that, one, he is even headlining, it right? and two, how is he supposed to climb out of this particular debt, sir? >> i mean, he is facing so many issues, rudy giuliani, in terms of all of these cases. if you look at the georgia case where he has also been indicted. you look at the doj case, they are also pursuing. and then he also has the defamation case where ruby freeman and shaye moss the election workers in georgia have won that case and it hasn't been determined, i believe, what he is going to have to pay for that defamation case. but he is facing a lot of financial burden here and i think that trump knows that rudy giuliani is a central figure in all of this and that, if he were to flip, it would be very harmful for him. so, he is a trying to keep rudy giuliani and his good graces, keep him on his side saying what he wants him to say and he does that by helping him pay his financial fees for these legal burdens that he is facing. >> what do they say, keep your friends close keep your enemies closer? keep your codefendants within your own body at that time. it's getting less and less attractive at enticing to be an ally of trump in these matters because of the mounting legal fees, one, but also there are now codefendants, in a number of cases. what we are seeing a little bit of a shift. but some of the accountability, taking a step back, if you look and i want to put up a list for people to get an idea of what we are talking about. this is the fallout, everyone, the fallout since january six. he got all of these people who's be