Transcripts For CNNW At This Hour With Berman And Michaela 2

CNNW At This Hour With Berman And Michaela July 22, 2014

The bodies of 282 of those on board the flight now out of rebel hands. The first remains expected to arrive back in the netherlands tomorrow. Pro russian rebels also handed the planes black boxes to malaysian officials. These of course could hold key evidence about what happened to this flight. Now theres International Flavor here. Britain agreeing to help dutch investigators get data from these black boxes. Also a new image from the pentagon shows the trajectory of the missile that took the plane down. You can see the plane has a yellow line coming from the left. The missile is on the green on the right. The ukrainian officials says he is certain a russian officer personally pushed the button. Meantime, russian president Vladimir Putin promises to use his influence with the rebels to push for a full investigation, but that is not much consolation to his critics, many of them here in the United States sound an awful lot like senator john mccain. Vladimir putin is literally getting away with murder, and i mean literally and we are doing very little in response. Lets go right to ivan watson he is on the ground near the Ukrainian Border with russia. We know its been very tense there. Give us a look at the situation on the ground right now. Is there fighting happening near you . Reporter there has been the rumble of art tillry throughout the day heard, i would estimate a six miles away. Some art tillry strikes hit this city on monday and killing five civilians. We saw some apartment blocks that had been hit by this artillery that had come from ukraine Government Military positions. That triggered some fear in donetsk. The crash zone is an hour plus drive from here. It is in another area controlled by the separatists, but not that far from the fighting. For example, when malaysian experts went to the scene to start inspecting the site, today they heard in the distance the sound of rockets being fired, saw some of the signs of that artillery being fired, and that does underscore the fact that this terrible tragedy happened in an active war zone and no less than russian president Vladimir Putin himself has admitted that likely this plane would not have gone down if it wasnt for the fact that there is an ugly civil war thats been under way for months now in this corner of ukraine. In that corner of ukraine, ivan, there have been signs of progress as you say. Investigators getting more access to the scene, the bodies of the victims now turned over, thankfully after all this time. And also the black boxes, and within that, perhaps maybe some signs of the duplicity for lack of a better word of the rebels who held them for four days. Thats right. Let me just give you a little bit of background. For more than four days, the selfdeclared Prime Minister of the separatist region said he wouldnt confirm whether or not he had the black boxes in his possession. He frequently said he had some kind of technical object but he didnt have the Technical Expertise to determine whether these were in fact the flight recorders. So then fastforward to this morning, before dawn, at a ceremony at the rebel headquarters, where the Prime Minister, Alexander Borodai handed over these two orange devices to a malaysian delegation and they both signed a Handover Ceremony and they are clearly on the side of those devices the names flight recorders, which i think to any untrained eye would suggest that these were the socalled black boxes. That he werent entirely transparent about it and thats part why some people have accused the rebels of a cover up. When they say flight recorders that might be a good sign that they are flight recorders. Thanks so much for being with us. So now that they have been recovered and turned over to the malaysian authorities and the victims bodies have been moved out of the conflict zone, what can they tell us about the crash . Our analyst david seuss si and mark hurtley. Lets dispense with the obvious. They are not black. They are orange. They say flight recorder. What kind of information at this point do they expect to get from these boxes . Ive heard everything from flight paths, Technical Information but also possibly even sounds of an explosion from the cockpit voice recorder . From the cockpit voice recorder, that is a good possibility. However, because of the way it was hit, because the tail section was on its way off during the collision or with the debris, im not sure that it had power to continue to record the sounds from that point forward. However, the flight data recorder would have a lot of really critical information. If you align if someone questions whether its a missile or where it might have come from, you could look at the perforation marks of the side of the aircraft. The flight data recorder would tell you exactly the position of the aircraft, whether it was turning left or right or up or down. At that point you can align that aircraft through graphics, you can look where a piece of shrapnel went in and out and trace that back down to see where it came from. However, these missiles dont actually go straight. But it gives you an idea. It gives definitely a clue what direction it came in. Theres a concern about the chain of custody. The rebels had these four days. Is there a possibility they could have been tampered with and would that hamper the contents . As far as tampering, as far as altering the data highly unlikely. But wiping it out is definitely a possibility. So if it is wiped out, be very suspicious because at least in the history of my investigative background of 25 years, ive never had one that didnt have anything on it. So if it was wiped out, thats very suspicious. General, i want to bring you in here. Youve spent a lot of time in ukraine. I wonder what you think is going on now in the heads of pro russian rebels, they do seem to have backed down some on the bodies of the victims, the crash site, the data recorders. Why do you think they have done that and what do you think they are after Going Forward . They are scrambling. They have been scrambling since they realized what they hit was not what they thought they hit. And i think theres been a it shows the lack of professionalism of this group of proxies for lack of a better term. They dont know what they are doing. They are fighter, and attempting to disrupt and cause chaos in Eastern Ukraine and i think this kind of a big event really threw some of them for a loop. Youve seen the indicators the kind of force they are. The way they approach engagements, the way they deal with the media, the way they try and bully their way through. These are not professional soldiers. They may have been in the past. They may be guided by some professional soldiers by some special operators, what the russians call spets nats. They are scrambling. They are trying to figure out what their next step is and its been a continuing comedy of errors on their part. And i imagine because of this unpredictable nature, you have to be very careful in how you deal with them, especially when this investigation isnt complete, even close to complete . Oh, absolutely. I give great credit to all the reporters that are on the scene and the professional journalists that are there, but especially the office of Security Cooperation in europe. Those guys are doing masterful work under some very tough circumstances, things that they are not really trained the osce especially, they are not trained to do this kind of stuff and they are managing some tensions between these russian separatists and might have on the ground. They are at a razors edge. Thanks so much for with us. Appreciate your insight here. Ahead for us this hour, how far can the u. S. Press Vladimir Putin now. Ahead, also, he cheated death twice. How one man avoided flight 17 and flight 370 at the last minute. Plus we have the very latest from gaza as the death toll there rises. Are opportunities for a ceasefire disappearing . Stay with us. Movie night. I get 2x the points on streaming movies and takeout from restaurants with my Citi Thankyou card. Everyone wins. You mean you win. Yes i do. The Citi Thankyou preferred card earn two times the thankyou points with no annual fee. To apply, go to citi. Com thankyoucards. Whats your favorite kind of cheerios . 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According to them, the people from the east were saying that they shot down a military jet, so if it was shut shot down a military jet, there was confusion. If there was confusion, it was not an act of terrorism. If it did happen, it was confusion, not terrorism. Interesting. Obviously relations between the u. S. And russia were already cool before flight 17 was shot down. Now, things could get noticeably colder. Heres what Senate Intelligence chair woman Dianne Feinstein told candy colely. Do you believe the u. S. Russian relations now at cold war levels . Yes. Nick burn is with us. Thank so much, sir, for just joining us this hour. The u. S. Just issued more sanctions on russia over ukraine. Russia issued a list of americans its banning from travel to russia. I want to get your assessment on this, ambassador. Is Dianne Feinstein right, the cold war is back . Well, i think shes right that this is a crisis in u. S. Russia relations and certainly cold war passions have been unleashed. Why . Because putin is questioning now how the cold war ended. He is drawing new dividing lines in europe. Hes annexed crimee. Hes destabilizing ukraine. Theres no question the russia is supplying the mill separatists. Hes created a profound crisis between the east and west. It wont look exactly like the cold war because there are still things that we have to do with russia. We are partners with russia, for instance, in the ukraine iran negotiations. Were partners with russia in the north korea negotiations. Theres an awful lot of trade that goes on between europe and russia and the United States and russia, but theres a crisis of trust and i think between president obama and president putin, zero trust at this point in time. We have an International Space station. It might get awfully chilly up there as well. Ambassador, Vladimir Putin does not strike me as the type of guy who says im sorry or i was wrong about something. Theres been a few things over the last few days. Obviously, handing over the black boxes, allowing investigators on the site there, the victims bodies final getting out of the crash area. Is this what it looks like when Vladimir Putin backs down a little bit even though he doesnt say is so much out loud . I dont think so. I dont think hes sorry. Hes an authoritarian leader. Hes used to getting his own way. Hes also acustomed to lying to his own people and the rest of the world. It seems to me just watching this, the russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine are lying about what happened. The reason youve seen this latest change, they want to avoid sanctions. The European Union leaders are meeting to discuss those sanctions. Since the invasion of the crimea, the European Union has been very reluctant to step up sanctions. Heres the time of testing, because of this outrage thats happened, with the shooting of this aircraft with hundreds of europeans dead, will the europeans finally step up with the kind of sanctions that will hurt the russian economy . Thats what putin wants to avoid, thats why were seeing these relatively mild words from Vladimir Putin. He hasnt had a change of heart. You look at the fact that the dutch lost so many of their citizens, a nation so small, not having seen this kind of loss of life in recent history, and it makes you wonder how much pressure they are going to add and how strong their voices will be. I wonder if there are voices that you think can get through to putin. We know the chancellor of germany has had discussions with putin over the ukrainian crisis. Are you hopeful there could be some talking to him at this point . You know, michaela, at this point, i dont think words, diplomacy, conversations are going to do it with Vladimir Putin. Because he seems to be immune to New York Times editorialize or people writing op eds against him. He seems to be very vulnerable however to the kind of sanctions that would arrest Capital Investment in russia or stop manufactured exports from germany to russia. He needs that. His economy is highly integrated. So thats why this decision by the European Union is so important. Its ironic, that the dutch, the greeks, italians in the e. U. Context over the last several months had been opposing tough sanctions because each of them have an important economic relationship with russia but were beginning to see the united kingdom, certainly the countries of eastern europe, inside the e. U. Campaigning for tough sanctions. I think thats the question of the week. Will europe finally stand up to Vladimir Putin . Well have to wait and see. Hopefully there will be some powerful movements and their voices will be heard and action taken. Thanks so much for joining us. The death toll rising on both sides as air strikes and ground assaults ramp up in gaza. Can secretary of state john kerry broker a ceasefire between israel and hamas . Thats next. All right. This breaking news, Delta Airlines has suspended flights to and from tel aviv in israel. This after one of its flights was diverted as it was coming into their International Airport after seeing signs of rocket debris near the airport there. That flight which actually had one of our reporters on it was diverted to paris. I want to bring in renee marsh right now. Delta a Major Airline in tel aviv. Absolutely, john. Were getting all of this information so bear with me here. Heres what we know from the airline itself. Delta telling us as uj said they are suspend flights to and from tel aviv this after again rockets or debris associated with rockets were discovered near the airport there in tel aviv. That all happening while a flight that was in the air had to be diverted. This flying was traveling from new york to tel aviv. It was delta flight 468, some 273 passengers on board, 17 crew members, and because of this, what they are calling security concerns, this flight had to divert to paris. As that is all happening, we are now hearing from based on israeli media, israeli media, i should say, u. S. Carriers, multiple u. S. Carriers, were talking about u. S. Air, united, delta as well, they are canceling flights to israel as a result of this rocket fire. Again, still developing, but what we have confirmed here, delta, because of this security issue, a flielingt a flight had to be diverted. They are stopping flights from coming in and out of tel aviv and now were getting word from israeli media that other carriers are following suit. Were staying on top of this as we get more information, john, of course, well get that to you. Lets get some context to this. David soo soucie is here. Lets talk about this. Theres a lot going into decisions redirecting flights. Economics are at play and safety at play. When you look at situations going on in ukraine and the middle east, these airlines are obviously on edge trying to figure out what they do and when they act. This is real good evidence of the fact that their safety concerns have been escalated to a level of hypercriticality. Every time theres an accident goes on, everyone in the industry, they are trying to group together to how to cover the holes of the communications and the things that might have led to mh17, theres areas of that information is not being shared about w

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