Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Very troublesome for the president here. The fact is if President Trump were president right now, he could be indicted for these Campaign Finance violations, couldnt he . Absolutely. When you look at the way the prosecutors have described it, when you look at the way Michael Cohen described it in court, these documents, its criminal information, so its essentially laying everything out. If this was an indictment and trump, donald trump was not the president , we could be looking at an indictment against the president. We could also, you know, if this was an indictment, look at this as the president being an unindicted coconspirator. Think of that, and certainly, the ramifications of that. Its really serious here. Well see what happens from here. The other thing in these documents that the prosecutors have talked about was that Michael Cohen, and we dont know who these people are, was working with other people on the campaign as well. On some of this influence. And that certainly indicates this investigation perhaps is ongoing and may not be over. Shimon, thanks very much. Well have more on this throughout the hour. Theres reaction tonight at the white house. Kaitlan collins joins us now with that. The president spoke to reporters when he came off the plane going to his campaign rally. Didnt really speak about Michael Cohen. Has he had anything to say about that since the plea deal . Not a word from the president on all of this, even though as we speak hes on stage in West Virginia speaking in front of a crowd of very friendly audience, a very friendly audience, the president s biggest supporters in the audience tonight, but so far, he has not brought up Michael Cohen once. Of course, we know that the president s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, did respond to the cohen news today, saying in a statement that those charges from the government included no allegations of any wrongdoing on behalf of the president. While thats right that the government did not say that, he did not mention the fact that the president s longtime attorney walked into a new york courtroom today and implicated the president in a crime. We know from what our sources are told us for months now that
the president has long feared that the cohen investigation could be much more damaging to him than the special counsels investigation could be. And hes long been enraged by all of the developments with Michael Cohen, including the fact that he recorded a conversation they had about paying women. So its very likely that we will hear from the president on this at some point once he watches all of the cable news coverage. But anderson, the bottom line here is this is someone who for so long has been in charge of fixing the president s problems, and tonight, he became one of the president s biggest problems. All right, kaitlan collins, thanks very much. I want to dig deeper. Were joined by Jeffrey Toobin and preet bharara. Lets start with you, jeff. I know you think its virtually impossible to overstate what Michael Cohen said in court today. Just talk about why you think its such a big deal. Well, because this is the First Time Since watergate and
perhaps even before watergate that a federal criminal guilty plea has taken place. And the guilty person has said i committed this crime with and for the president of the united states. If this were any other person, given the evidence that was presented in court today, it seems to me a virtual certainty that donald trump would have been indicted and charged, too. Remember, who benefitted from this Campaign Finance violation . It wasnt Michael Cohen. The beneficiary was, according to Michael Cohen, the person who directed and then helped cover up this Illegal Campaign contribution. This brings this criminal case to the door of the Oval Office Like nothing we have seen before in this investigation. But jeff, obviously, you know, sitting president ,
according to precedent, not law, cant be indicted. Had the president leaves office, is this something charges could be pursued against him for . Well, it could. I think. I dont think the Statute Of Limitations will have run. You know, that could be a long way off. There are a lot of things that may change in the interim, but the Justice Department policy, and as you point out, its a policy, not a law. Its not part of the constitution. Says no criminal charges against a president while he is president. This issue may arise when the president leaves office, but all of that, i think, is down the road. Preet, do you agree if donald trump were not the president , if he lost the election, given what Michael Cohen is claiming and swore under oath today that he himself did under the direction of donald trump, that donald
trump would be indicted or would be an unindicted coconspirator . The would be a likelihood of that, but i think its an enormously significant thing. I think its correct to say we havent seen Something Like this, the likes of this, like the president likes to say, the likes of this we have never seen. Because we dont know how corroborated Michael Cohen is on the particular allegation that he made in court. That this was done at the direction and in coordination with his boss, the president. When you say we dont know how corroborated . We dont go if there are tapes or emails. I tend to credit Michael Cohen on this allegation, but the president s lawyers are right that this allegation of this being done at the direction of the president is not in the documentation. The charges. Its not in the criminal information. Its not in the plea agreement. Its not even necessarily a requirement to form the factual basis for Michael Cohen taking the plea. You go into court, and you have
to give a factual basis for why youre guilty. So one could argue, i dont think this is right, and im sure giuliani and others have been arguing this. That it was a gratuitous slap by someone who has been left behind and now has an ax to grind with the president , to throw this in in open court under oath. It still is the case, he said it. Would prosecutors have accepted this agreement if they didnt believe Michael Cohen . I think if prosecutors thought he was lying about that aspect of why he did what he did, i think they would have a problem accepting his plea agreement. They would have to Say Something in court. So i think its enormously significant. Its not clear to me, though, not knowing what other evidence there is to back up Michael Cohen, who is, by the way, a criminal and a liar and now a convicted one, you need Something Else to back that up. You pointed out that this president go ahead, jeff. If i could just add, preet is exactly right that this allegation by cohen is not in the charging documents. But just if we step back and ask ourselves, okay, Michael Cohen
has pled guilty to an Unlawful Campaign contribution in terms of paying these two women. Why would he pay that without talking to donald trump . It is never made any sense that Michael Cohen did this on his own. Well, first of all where did he get the money. Second of all, who benefitted . That argument has never made sense. Its been made by all the surrogates who came forward after Stormy Daniels spoke. David schwartz was on the program, an attorney for Michael Cohen in another matter, and other friends of Michael Cohen, all of whom said the president didnt know anything about this. He did this out of the goodness of his heart because thats the kind of guy he is. He took out a home equity loan, didnt seek repayment. None of that is true. Either they were lied to or they were on television lying as well. Im not saying its not a good case against the president based on the fact Michael Cohen is willing to say it under oath. Common sense, as jeff points out, the benefit of this is for the president. Doesnt make sense for a lawyer in Good Standing to have done
these actions without the permission and the direction of the president. You could make a case. Im just saying i dont know how much direct hard evidence there is to corroborate. Not regarding Stormy Daniels. Theres audiotape regarding the Karen Mcdougal situation in which donald trump and Michael Cohen, i dont know if conspiring is the right word, but they seem to be talking about and discussing the details of buying the rights to her story from ami. Why they would be not like trump magazine actually exists that they were buying the rights so they could publish it. They were wanting to hold on to the rights so if the head of ami got hit by a truck in the immortal words of then candidate donald trump, they would be safe. You said he could still get immunity from mueller or immunity from congress if democrats win and decide to pursue impeachment charges. In both scenarios, he would be compelled to testify, right . Right. And its not it doesnt even require an impeachment investigation. Remember, congress has very broad jurisdiction to investigate whatever they want. They could be investigating Campaign Finance violations. Congress has the power to give immunity to people that they want, who are citing their fifth amendment rights. Congress generally refrains from doing so if its going to interfere with a Criminal Investigation. But here, that Criminal Investigation is over. Theres no risk of a case against Michael Cohen because hes already pleaded guilty. So if jerry nadler, who was the democrat who would be chairman of the judiciary committee, says we want to investigate this, and if his colleagues vote to give cohen immunity, he has to testify before congress. And if he doesnt, he goes to jail for contempt. Same principle applies if Robert Mueller wants to give him
immunity, if Robert Mueller says i want to hear what cohen has to say, im not worried about jeopardizing the southern districts investigation because its over, he can give him immunity and force cohen to testify before muellers grand jury. So i expect we will hear from Michael Cohen one way or another in one or more forms before too long. Preet, do you agree with that . I do. Overall, given the events of today, the likelihood of impeachment certainly went up. Because of Michael Cohen. More people, i saw people who were on the right, theyre maybe never trumpers who were saying themselves this is a bridge too far. You have something that didnt come directly out of the mueller investigation. Out of my former office which im very proud of today. From a person who is associated with the president , who has some Credibility Problems but also you have reasons to believe him. About something thats tangible and real, in which the person who is alleging the thing is not
just charged but pled guilty to it. So there is added credibility. When someone says i did this crime, this is not a witch hunt against me. And not only did i do the crime, i did it with this other person, at the direction of this other person, all of common sense and Common Sense Reasoning tells you makes total sense. Like thats the normal way it would occur. That someone says, i cant be hurt in the election. And all the evidence is that this was related to the election. And then a guy pleads guilty to it and says this was my coconspirator, and it makes sense it would be because thats the person who benefitted, thats a much more tangible, concrete thing, for people who care about these things to pursue. You then charge according to these documents with false consulting fees, essentially, to his corporation to then various ways, cheating on each other, and you have as you said the lies. You know, theres a back and forth story, whether youre talking about the meeting in trump tower related to the russia investigation or youre
talking about the payments to the two women, Donald Trumps story keeps changing about it. At any trial that would occur in the house or somewhere else or in the senate or somewhere else, you explain to the people who are the deciders of fact, if there was nothing to hide here and you werent involved, why do you keep lying about it . This is as swampy as it gets. Thanks very much. Jeff is going to stay with us because i want to explore more of the political angles preet was talking about. Joining us is jen psaki, and former senator rick santorum. Senator santorum, is there any scenario where this isnt a big problem for the president , whether its political or, you know, well political, lets say . No, you focused, i think rightfully so, on the cohen plea bargain. I dont think the manafort guilty plea guilty conviction is problematic for the president. But Michael Cohens admission or pleading guilty to, quote, cooperating with the president
in violating Campaign Finance laws, thats a serious problem for the president. Period. Jen, of all the things that have gone on over the last year and a half, in your opinion, is this the biggest shoe to drop so far . Look, i think if there was a movie script about what happened today and cohens statements in court and the manafort conviction, you wouldnt believe it. This is like one of those Movie Montages where several things happen at once and youre like its getting to the end of the movie because its a montage. Youre thinking this isnt realistic. Theres no way this could happen in real life. This just happened in an hour this afternoon. I do think it should be a game changer politically. It wont be right now because republicans are scared of trumps base. And unsettling them. Democrats are probably not scared but they dont want to energize trumps base, and were two months from an election. This is definitely a game changer in terms of the politics of this and being accused of committing a federal crime to win an election, which is what Michael Cohen accused the
president of, is a serious difference from what we have seen, where we were just even a couple days ago. I want to pick this up after the break. Want to get a quick break in. Also tonight, the other big case today, the conviction of Paul Manafort, the other guy the president suggests he never knew, also known as the man who ran his campaign. That and more ahead on the program. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. But allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Need a hair smoother. . Get super fruit moroccan argan oil. With fructis sleek shine shampoo. Hair is super sleek, even in 97 humidity. No parabens. Just sleek hair. And to control frizz even longer, try fructis sleek shine leavein cream. Discover fructis sleek shine. Americas 1 smoothing brand. Super fruit. Super hair. Garnier. Oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. Now deli fresh flavor is for everyone. Like those who like. Sweet. Those who prefer heat. And those who just love meat. Oscar mayer deli fresh. A fresh way to deli. You shouldnt be rushed into booking a hotel. With expedias addon advantage, booking a Flight Unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. Addon advantage. Only when you book with expedia. Whats a difference a day makes. Yesterday on fox, Rudy Giuliani was saying this. If he gets indicted for something that has nothing to do
with the president , i feel sorry for michael, although i dont know how sorry i feel for him because he was tape recording the world and deceiving him, including his client. This is today, and today, Michael Cohens client, now his exclient is a possible alleged coconspirator. Jeff, just before the break, jen was saying this could eventually be a Breaking Point for the president s supporters in congress. Do you agree with that . You know, we have been spending two years now saying this is it. This is the straw that breaks the camels back, whether its saying that donald trump and were having a Connection Problem with jeff. Senator santorum, do you ill take a shot at that. Do you see any appetite certainly on the republican side for addressing this . Well, i mean, look, there are three big stories today. Two that were talking about, manafort and cohen guilty pleas and convictions. But the third story is this horrific story out of iowa of this young girl being killed by
an illegal immigrant. And to most americans, and certainly to the trump base, the issue of donald trump standing up and actually trying to do something about these types of situations is much more personal to them than a potential Campaign Violation of a smarmy attorney with a sort of not particularly attractive whole situation that with a porn star. Those things have already sort of been discounted in the eyes of the american public. These other things that are much more real to people, i think, are going to be more persuasive. You dont think, just the moral character i know if were talking about the trump base, theyre obviously various forms of supporters of the president , but a man who has repeatedly lied, lied to the American People, whose surrogates have repeatedly lied about this or been lied to by him, and has surrounded himself with people who are now convicted crooks and also
selfprofessed crooks. And some of whom are now at least one, his former lawyer, who is now pointing the finger at his former client, saying he was a crook, too. I know the base may not care, but just fairminded people, dont you think youre selling them short to say they dont care about that . Im not saying they dont care. I say i think they care more about other things. Number one, to say he surrounded himself with convicted criminals, i mean, they were not convicted criminals when he surrounded himself with them. I think thats a little too much. They had been. Because they had already broken the law. But they werent convicted. So the idea they were criminals. The idea that he knew they were criminals. Unconvicted criminals. Youre making the assumption he would have known they were doing Criminal Activity, which of course, he did not. Unless he was engaged in Criminal Activity and thats why he had so many around him, like his attorney. Thats what his attorney has accused him of. Preet bharara did a good job of explaining this is his side of the story. Its obviously President Trump has a different story. The big problem with President Trumps story is its not been a consistent story. And thats problematic for him. But were still, you know, look, this is a serious problem. This is a game changer in many regards. But looking at who this is coming from and the circumstances around it, i just think it doesnt weigh as heavily as some other charge might. But you know, jeff toobin, isnt it hard to, on the one hand argue, well, this is coming from skuzy people, when donald trump particularly chose these skuzy people to be around him. I mean, if youre bathing in filth and then some of that filth gets on you, its a little hard to say, well, i cant believe these people are dirty when in fact im the one who has employed these people and the very reason i probably employed them is because theyre willing to do just about anything for me. At least in Michael Cohens case. Thats part of it. Or what does it say about your judgment that you picked a National Security adviser, Convicted Felon now. What about your Campaign Chairman . Convicted felon now. What about your personal attorney . Convicted felon. Now, it is true, as rick points out, they werent Convicted Felons when he hired them. But what does it say about your judgment that these are the people you choose to surround yourself with . I dont think it says anything good. Well, first off, number one, general flynn was is not a smarmy character. General flynn served this Country Terrifically as a military officer. But he did lie to a federal investigator. You know, he made a mistake, and he committed a crime, and he took the hit for it. But to suggest that thats a bad guy to surround yourself with, i think is overstating the case. Paul manafort has been employed by republicans all over the map. For a long, long time before donald trump. But agreed. With flynn, he did amazing stuff in afghanistan and in his military career, but if youre leading chants of lock her up, and then youre the one who actually gets locked up, youre a hypocrite. Look, general flynn i mean, yeah . I dont know if youre a hypocrite. What would you call it . Look, he made a mistake. I mean, i think a victim of karma . No, look. A hypocrite is someone who is out there deliberately doing something that he himself actually agrees with. I dont think general flynn would tell you he was representing turkey without acknowledging it and writing opeds about it, and pretending not to say it. Hes a hypocrite. Yeah, all i would say is i think its a little more complex than that. Having said all that i saw the video. Having said all that, you have to look at the president and the people he hired at the time he hired them were not
other than Michael Cohen, who i will concede to you is one of those, you know, smarmy characters. Manafort has been a smarmy character for, it seems like, if not decades, at least years. Given what he has now been convicted of. In fact, the president will tell you he was a smarmy character long before i ever got involved with him. He wasnt smarmy and illegal when i was actually involved with him. So if anything, all his indiscorrections, according to the president , happened long before. Well, and one of the smarmiest things or smarmiest things hes done or was involved in was trying to get a trump tower in moscow. We havent talked at all about because theres so much more interesting news today, about Michael Cohen being the front guy for trumps business in russia. You know, this is something im sure were going to delve more into. Well learn more about in the coming weeks, and manafort, yes, his conviction wasnt related to trump, but he was still the guy negotiating the democratic platform that made it friendlier to russia. This still will go back to that. There are a lot more lies that Michael Cohen told that are going to unravel over the coming weeks and months, i would suspect. Senator santorum, appreciate it, jen psaki, jeff toobin as well. As we touched on a bit while Michael Cohen was entering guilty pleas, the jury in the Paul Manafort trial came back with its verdict. Well walk you through what happened in that case. Its a burrito filled with plants pretending to be meat. Here we see the artist making an attempt to bare his soul. Its just a gray dot. There are multiples on the table one is cash, three are fha, one is va. So what can you do . Shes saying a whole lotta people want to buy this house. But you got this Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans makes the complex simple. Understand the details and get approved in as few as 8 minutes by americas largest mortgage lender. Russian collusion. This started as russian collusion. This has absolutely nothing to do. This is a witch hunt and a disgrace. This has nothing to do with what they started out, looking for russians involved in our campaign. There were none. I feel very badly for Paul Manafort. Again, he worked for bob dole, he worked for ronald reagan. He worked for many, many people. And this is the way it ends up. It was not the original mission, believe me. It was something very much different. So i have nothing to do with russian collusion. We continue the witch hunt. Thank you. That witch hunt, as the president calls it, today led a jury in Northern Virginia convicting manafort of eight felony counts, deadlocking on ten others. Jessica schneider is in the courthouse in alexandria, virginia. Explain what manafort was convicted of today. Yeah, anderson, Paul Manafort convicted of eight of those 18 counts. The jury deadlocked on ten counts. Prosecutors still have to decide
whether or not to go to a retrial with those. But the eight counts here are significant. They include five counts of tax fraud, two counts of hiding foreign bank accounts, as well as two other counts of bank fraud. In fact, those two counts of bank fraud carry up to 30 years in prison each. And all in all, Paul Manafort faces up to 80 years in prison. When he went before the judge, and the judge informed him of this guilty verdict, Paul Manafort, he was very stoic. He showed no emotion. He didnt smile. The one thing he did do, anderson, when he left the courtroom, he turned and gave a wink to his wife, cathy, who has been there throughout all of these proceedings. Paul manaforts defense team in the meantime says that Paul Manafort is disappointed by this verdict, and they say hes looking at his next options implying perhaps the defense team will appeal. The lightning happening behind you is freaking me out so im going to go through this quickly. The jurors asked to remain anonymous. Does that mean were likely not to hear from them . Its likely we probably wont. So as the jury was leaving, they were asking the judge, do not release our names. Do not release our identities. The judge encouraged them not to talk to the media. He said they werent completely barred from talking to the media, but really, he advised against it. And you know, the judges talked about his concerns about safety for these jurors. The judge saying just a few days ago that hes received threats as a result of this trial. So now he wants to keep those jurors safe. And hell do it by not releasing their names. Anderson. Jessica, our thanks to you and your team for braving the weather. Were joined again by jeff toobin, and also anne milgram. Even though he was convicted of 8 of the 18 charges is there any way to view this verdict except as a victory for mueller and his team . It absolutely is. I mean, this is a tremendous victory for muellers team. If i could just make one point
about sentencing, you know, jessica is exactly right about if you added up all of the counts he was convicted of, it could be 80 years. Thats not really the way federal sentencing works. There are guidelines that Group Criminal behavior together. And my tentative look at the guidelines suggest hes really looking at about ten years rather than 30. Ten years to a 70yearold man, to anybody, is a heck of a lot of time. Would that be ten years with Good Behavior down to like could it be down to two or three . No, no. In federal court, in federal prison, you have to do 85 of your sentence. If you get ten years, youre looking at eight and a half years, which is a long time for anybody. But for a 70yearold man, its a very big deal that hes looking at. Its not 30 years. And the president today in his reaction, you know, the white house used to say about Paul Manafort, they were trying
to distance themselves from him, saying look, he was with us for a couple weeks. A couple months. Underplaying his role. Now the president seems to be pointing out, oh, he used to work for reagan and bob dole, too. Im one in a long line of republicans he worked for. Hes saying it has nothing to do with russia. It does ignore the fact that manafort at the convention, they did change the platform to be more russia friendly. I mean, completely. And its important to remember that this has been a huge part of muellers investigation, the manafort case. So the president is now distancing himself from it. Hes always minimized his relationship with manafort. Now hes making it seem like manafort was a part of a lot of other administrations. Hes just one in a long line of people. Whats really important about this is mueller already has a number of criminal convictions, but this is the first trial conviction. And it is a big deal that its not, you know, its not just Robert Mueller bringing charges against someone. Its a jury of manaforts peers saying hes guilty of eight felonies, and manafort is now a Convicted Felon. Jeff, the fact, though if i could just if i could
add one more thing. Hes looking at two more prospects. Mueller has to decide whether he wants to retry him on the ten counts in which the jury hung. And theres an entirely separate trial with different crimes that is supposed to start in september in washington, d. C. So manaforts ordeal is not over, and the question of whether he pleads guilty now is even more pressing, i think, because why he would want to go through this again is a mystery to me. The president did say hes a good person, a good man. He feels sad for him. The president could pardon him. And then would then, would that pardon also cover the future trial coming up in d. C. . The president could say right now, i pardon him on everything hes been charged with. And that pardon would be this case, it would be the ten outstanding charges that jeff correctly mentions the government has to decide whether
or not theyll retry, and the d. C. Case. The president has that power. He hasnt exercised that power yet, and these cases have been pending for some time. It looks to me, feels to me that, and this may be completely the opposite of the way the president would think, but it feels to me that the more the cases get tried and the more that it gets public, that manafort essentially didnt pay taxes, and benefitted in this extravagant way financially, and remember, the september case is going to be all about the political side as well. So it is the heat is going to continue to turn up. I think personally i think it gets harder and harder for the president to pardon him. Jeff, do you agree with that, that it gets harder . Again, this is a president who often, that may be the conventional wisdom, and a sensible way of looking at it. It doesnt mean its the way the president views it. You know, conventionally, you know, no president would even consider pardoning someone who was so close to him. And remember how seedy the behavior was here. I mean, basically, what this case was about was lying about
how much money youre making to save taxes when youre making a lot of money, but then when youre short on money, lying to banks to get loans illegally. I mean, it is not admirable behavior. Why anyone would consider a pardon for this, you know, would be inconceivable in normal circumstances. But this president operates by his own rules. He has pardoned people outside the normal Justice Department pardon process, which is his right but somebody most president s dont do. So i think its unlikely that a pardon would happen, but by no means do i think its out of the question because i dont know how donald trump thinks about these issues. Its interesting, the president held this rally and at one point, the audience is chanting drain the swamp. This is the swamp. Youre talking about lies. Michael cohen was also lied to a bank. He lied about income in terms of cheating american taxpayers on tax money. Lied to a bank about debt that he held in order to get a loan. Were awash with all of these
stories of people who put their personal financial interests over the interests of the american public, over government. Over being good citizens of our country. There is no question that it is its almost hard to imagine how much of a swamp we have seen today. These are the people that the president either held closely in his orbit before he became president or chose while he was running. Yeah, you said it before. I think we do judge people by the company they keep, and the president chose these people as company. Yeah, anne milgram, appreciate it. Jeff toobin as well. Todays guilty verdicts and guilty pleas by two men who worked with President Trump is something that has rarely happened to a sitting president. Well talk about all the president s men with a man who worked in a president s white house. Also, a california congressman who was one of the first to endorse donald trump for president has been indicted for misusing Campaign Funds along with his wife. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Like these for only 2 or less when it comes to strong bones, are you on the right path . We have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, so with our doctors we chose prolia® to help make our bones stronger. Only prolia® helps strengthen bones by stopping cells that damage them with 1 shot every 6 months. Do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva®. Serious allergic reactions, like low blood pressure; trouble breathing; throat tightness; face, lip or tongue swelling, rash, itching or hives have happened. Tell your doctor about dental problems, as severe Jaw Bone Problems may happen or new or unusual pain in your hip, groin, or thigh, as unusual Thigh Bone Fractures have occurred. Speak to your doctor before stopping prolia®, as spine and other Bone Fractures have occurred. Prolia® can cause serious side effects, like low blood calcium; serious infections, which could need hospitalization; skin problems; and severe bone, joint, or muscle pain. If your bones arent getting stronger
isnt it time for a new direction . Why wait . Ask your doctor about prolia. Watergate, former Nixon White House counsel, john dean, and david gergen, at time a staffer in the Nixon White House. John, in the span of an afternoon, you have two people in the president s inner circle who have become felon. One who has implicated the president himself in a felony. Does this sound familiar at all . It certainly does. To take issue with what jeff said in the first block of your show, it isnt unprecedented. I happened to plead guilty when nixon was still in office, after i got word that they were about to remove archibald cox, the special prosecutor. They asked me if i would consider pleading. I said i will. And much to the chagrin of my lawyer, who thought i had oliver norths case, where they cant both immunize you and prosecute you, i told him i didnt want to beat the rap, and where was going to indeed do it. I thought that nixon could not get away with removing a special prosecutor. So i was ready to go and did. And david, of course, was in the white house at that time. John, how significant do you think it is, what Michael Cohen had to say today . I think it was interesting that he said it during his allocution, which was under oath, where he said to the judge that he was doing it at the direction of the head of the campaign, referring to trump. Making that clear point in court. When you do plead, you have to explain to the court what youve done and why you have done it. And they want to make sure youre of sound mind and thinking clearly at the moment. And so i have been through that drill. And its not the sort of time you give a false statement to a judge. So i think that was probably as awesome and serious of circumstances he could have made that presentation. David, how do you see what happened today in terms of Michael Cohen . It brought back memories of another day in history. Back in the watergate investigations. When john dean went to nixon and said, theres a cancer on your presidency. John will remember that, it was a famous moment in our politics. And i think what today revealed is theres a cancer on this presidency. Its not to say its the same as watergate. I think he can still manage to get out of this. If other things turn out all right, but if this metastasizes and we find other misdeeds among his associated, i think then hes in deep trouble. Especially regarding Michael Cohen, who theoretically knows where all of the other possible if there are other misdeeds, might be in a position to know where at least some of those misdeeds are. Right, and you have this story is coming really close to the president now. Were talking about his top lawyer for many years, talking about his Campaign Manager for a while, flynn, his National Security adviser. All of them, this is when you really, the moments that count because the people theyre
closing in on do know. They were there. They will have knowledge. And well see well have to see where it goes. I think its a breakthrough for mueller. Had he lost this case today, this investigation would probably be closed down pretty quickly. John, theres no one, though, it seems, correct me if you think im wrong, around the president whos able to say what you said to nixon, that theres a cancer on your presidency. That appears correct. But whats interesting from nixons perspective when i testified in front of the senate, he later wrote in his memoir that he wasnt as concerned about my watergate testimony, which he thought he could survive, indeed i didnt know but a fraction of what i later found in the tapes. But what bothered him and what troubled him and he thought had been stimulated by the democrats, which was not correct, was the atmosphere i put it in to explain how a watergate could happen. He thought he found that was something he couldnt recover from. Things like the enemies list, the fact that there had been an attempt to firebomb the brookings institute. There had been a breakin at Daniel Ellsbergs psychiatrists office. All the things i listed that resulted in me not being very surprised by watergate happening. David, it was interesting. Senator santorum was saying there are other things he thinks mr. Trumps base, the American People care about more. Something the president nixon said in 1973. He said people got to know whether or not their president is a crook. Michael cohen today accused donald trump of being a crook. He said im a crook. He pleaded guilty. And he said, by the way, i was doing it at the direction of this other guy who is now the president and hes a crook too. Absolutely. This raises a fundamental question now. If cohen is indeed a fell on felon, why isnt donald trump guilty of a felony . If willing to admit a felony to help the campaign with regard to
Stormy Daniels, why are we to think he couldnt possibly have accepted help from the russians . Campaign with regard to stormy i think if there are competing narratives of truth as Rudy Giuliani tells us, then isnt it time for donald trump to go before mueller and testify . I mean Arent The Voters entitled arent the people of this country entitled before the midterm elections, before the elections of 2020 to know what really happened, to straighten out these competing narratives . I think that requires him to i think this puts increased pressure on him to go to mueller. I dont want to use this old saying but theres an old saying to the effect you scratch a lie, you find a thief. The president , if he was willing to lie repeatedly about the payoff to Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal, which according to Michael Cohen and we now know he if Michael Cohen is actually a felon and did what he just pled guilty to, the president was lying about all that stuff time and time again. Theres no telling what else he was lying about. If hes willing to lie about that, which is relatively i mean, you know, if that had come out in the waning days of the election, who knows if it really would have mattered to people to senator santorums point. Well, apparently theres not only the two instances that Michael Cohen testified that he was involved in payoff, but he knows of other situations. So this may be even broader than just Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels, which would, i think, raise a significant Campaign Issue if thats what they were trying to make go away and they successfully did make it go away for all practical purposes. So, you know, yes, i think your point is well taken, and i think his record of truthfulness in general is being tallied by the Washington Post is pretty striking for this president. Richard nixon did tell some
lies, but they were always on big issues and never on day to day small issues. And, david, its one thing for the Washington Post to be tallying it, but a lot of People Discount that. To have your former attorney say, you know what . Im a crook. Im pleading guilty. By the way, the guy ive been working for is one as well. This is a whole different league. Weve moved into a whole different stage in this still fantastic story. I dont understand how we ever got here. Yeah. I wish it was fantastical. Yeah, fantastical is a better way to put it. David gergen, thank you. John dean as well. Its been a rough day for the president s men. Late today we learned that the second of candidate trumps original two congressional supporters has now been indicted. Congressman Duncan Hunter of california. He and his wife are charged with wire fraud, falsifying records, Campaign Finance violations and conspiracy. They allegedly misused a quarter Million Dollars in campaign money. A spokesperson for Congressman Hunter says he believes the indictment against him and his wife is, quote, purely politically motivated. Again, Congressman Hunter was an
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he and trump spoke about a payment related to a playboy models story about her alleged affair with trump. When it comes time for the financing, which will be what financing . Well have to pay wont pay with cash . No, no, no. Reporter to donald trump, it was the ultimate betrayal, the president tweeting, what kind of a lawyer would tape a client . So sad. The relationship soured even more after a revelation that cohen was prepared to tell Robert Mueller that thencandidate trump knew in advance about the june 2016 meeting in trump tower where russians were expected to offer dirt on hillary clinton. Trump denied it all on twitter, saying, sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam. Jam or no jam, Michael Cohens deal with the government certainly wont help heal this relationship. Randi kaye, cnn, new york
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