Is not the truth. Is that just misspeaking or part of a campaign of deception . Its time to go deep. Lets get after it. In an on the record interview with reuters, the president says that he could run the probe himself if he wanted. All this coming after his biggest tweet storm yet about mueller and word that his white House Counsel cooperated with muellers probe more than trump might have known. Here to discuss that and much more, former Attorney General michael mukasey. Judge, good to have you as always. Good to be with you. So if you were to hear that the president has decided, im taking over this probe. Im taking it over. What would your reaction be . I would shake myself and wake up. Just a dream . Yeah. Can he, or should he not . I i have no idea whether he can. I cant believe that he can. Hed have to fire mueller in the
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Making a false statement to an fbi agent. But as point of fact, judge, hes told them things that were not true and things that he should have known and recollected in realtime. Right. Maybe he did. And maybe he did it because he thought there was some impropriety about having the conversation with kislyak. Thats why sally yates, then at the a. G. s office, then went to don mcgahn and said you better figure out Whats Going On with this. I dont think there was any impropriety in that conversation at all. In fact i think flynn would have been committing malpractice if he had not had the conversation with kislyak. He is the guy who was going to be the National Security then why did he lie about it . Beats me. Thats a good question, no . Its an excellent question, but i dont know the extent to which he lied, whether he said the conversation took place or what. I do know that it was strzoks initial reaction that flynn was being truthful. Heres my problem with it in the context of the president. One, i could think off the top
saying it happened. People write memos to the file to serve their own interest. Comey is not above that. Isnt what theyre worried about is putting someone we know who has a problem with abusing the truth, who has a problem with freelancing, who has a problem with sticking to what he is told to do and putting him across from people who would be uniquely motivated to point that out . I think what theyre concerned about is the ultimate fact here, which is that this is not going to end in a trial. Its not going to end in charges. Its going to end in the House Of Representatives with an argument in favor or against impeachment. And the only thing he would be doing is providing grift for that particular mill. Theres no legitimate criminal investigation going on here. Well, thats an opinion. But the idea that he does nothing but add grift to the mill, i would suggest no. There is this legitimate investigation of people other than him, but theres no possibility of bringing a charge against him. There is no possibility because the doj guidance. It doesnt mean that muellers
main probe responsibility is to get the facts and find out what happened. The president s part of that. And you say, well, why would he do it except to give grift to that mill, that mill being something nefarious in your perspective. Im saying no, not nefarious. Its for inclusion in a report to the house. Right. That can then be used to consider impeachment. Why would the president walk into that . Because of the truth. He says he wants to tell the truth. If he Doesnt Sit Down with mueller and we have some type of objective body, which i hold out hope Thats What Mueller is. Everybody loved him until this probe didnt start going the way the president likes. Now all of a sudden hes suspect. But if he Doesnt Sit Down, it will always be an open question of whether or not he was hiding anything from the American People. Fair point . Fair point. But i would sitting in the president s place, i would rather have an open question than have somebody who went to Hillary Clintons party and cried when she lost make the decision about whether im telling the truth or not. Thats highly prejudicial,
though. If you were going to say that he were lying even if its just in a report, youve got a standard of proof. Thats a crime, perjury. Its not just we believe comey, we dont like you, so were going to believe him and not you. You give reasons why, but ultimately its a Credibility Decision, and i wouldnt want the Credibility Decision made by the people who are staffing that investigation. You dont have any concerns if you were representing the president that he would be able to tell the truth in the chair . I would have his concerns about his tendency, as you put it, to improvise. Of course i would have concerns about that. Im rational. Judge, thank you for your perspective. As we go through this process, i will call on you time and time again. Love to come back. All right. In a new attempt to discredit mueller, the president says study the late joe mccarthy. Does he really want to be making comparisons to mccarthy now . The truth is the truth. Something that we actually have to say these days. Next. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish,
prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Plaque psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. For psoriasis, 75 clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. And the otezla Prescribing Information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include Upper Respiratory Tract Infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. Avoid selfharm. The proof of that, mccarthyism at its worst, he wrote. Right . Heres the tweet. Study the late Joseph Mccarthy because were now in a period with mueller and his gang that make Joseph Mccarthy look like a baby. Rigged witch hunt. If anyone in politics can claim the mantle of mccarthyism, it is President Trump. Let us remind ourselves with the men side by side, senator mccarthy was a demagogue. He relied on Conspiracy Theories and Zen Oh Phobia to generate fear. Sound familiar . Not to mention, do you know who mccarthys lawyer was . Roy cohn. You know whose personal lawyer he became . Donald trumps. Now, some more proof. Just listen to how desperate the efforts are. It reminds me of groucho marx. Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes. Im not going to be rushed
behold herb. The truth is the truth. Each one of those, you take them in isolation, and could you explain them as something kind of innocent . Yes, of course you could. I could do that very easily. But taken together, what do we see . The same mistake keeps being made. What does that mean . Its not a mistake. Its part of a narrative to put out there, and its one of deception. The president saying whats being seen and written about is not whats happening. Listen. It all matters. There is no other reality than the one that we know because of what we can show. And if trump really wants to put an end to this, he can do it very easily. He could do it by demanding of himself what he has always demanded of others. Sit down and state your case. No hiding. No pleading the fifth. In other words, lets get after it. All right. The president now says he can run the Mueller Investigation. Can he . And what if he tried . What is behind the truth in this situation . Is it the real truth or orwellian poppy cock. That is the making of a great debate, next. I said it, poppycock. Let your perfect drive come together during the final days of the Lincoln Summer Invitation event get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models
plus One Thousand Dollars bonus cash. Hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean. Were the most isolated population on the planet. Hawaii is the first state in the u. S. To have 100 Renewable Energy goal. Were a very small electric utility. But, if we dont make this move were going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaiis economy. Verizon provided us a solution using Smart Sensors on their network that lets us collect near Real Time Data on our power grid. colton this technology is helping us integrate rooftop solar, which is a very important element of getting us to our Renewable Energy goals. shelee if we can create our own energy, we can take care of this beautiful place that i grew up in. Its actually not respect those arent exclusive, chris. I think from a legal advice perspective, it is. Certainly trumps lawyers have taken and thats and will continue. I think bakari alluded to it. If i were on the trump legal team, id be advising him not to sit down with mueller for both of the reasons you started out with, chris. Again, theyre not exclusive with each other. And Rudy Giuliani, in his examples inartfully talked about who do you believe . Is it only one or the other . His example is it comeys truth or is it trumps truth . And only one or the other. And. You still have to prove it though, ken. You are correct. You are correct that there is an objective truth. Something happened, and the American People as a general matter would like to know what those things are when it relates to their government. We dont get the Gods Eye View of who is telling the truth. Well, thats not always true. Thats not always true. Sometimes its yard, which by the way is a damn high standard. But, bakari, sometimes you will say one thing. I say another. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. Yeah, i dont understand where all of a sudden we dont know the definition of truth anymore. I think that ken is not quite portraying what this investigation actually is, and i think Rudy Giuliani, although hes really shown himself to be inartful and a poorly disciplined attorney who has no idea what the facts of his clients case are, what were seeing right now is that this
president , not only does he have trouble telling the truth, but he has trouble defining what truth is. I mean we live in a realm where were talking about alternative facts. But in this case its not just comey versus trump. I think thats where ken and the president and rudy get it wrong. Its not just comey versus trump. Its the words of cohen. Its the words of mcgahn. Its these investigators who have been out doing their Due Diligence for over a year now. So its not just one statement. Theyre taking a totality of statements, putting them together, and if five people say one thing, odds are that is the truth versus donald trump. You would take those five. So its not just comey saying something, but its his president ial attorney saying those things. Its cohen saying those things when he has an opportunity to sit down with the investigators. Its not one or the other. We dont have to make that choice. And truth is truth. I dont understand why this is such a difficult task that were putting ourself under. Ken, one of the things id
love your take on is to the extent that this is true, okay, that the Mueller Probe made it somewhat clear to trumps guys, the legal team, that hes not a subject of the investigation, hes not a target of the investigation, theyve interviewed dozens and dozens of people as far as we know. Only a handful have they wound up catching lying in things because i think thats an important context for people because, you know, the trump team is making the supposition that anybody who goes in there, theyre looking to get you and theyre going to trip you up on your own words. Theyve had dozens and dozens go in and didnt get charged with perjury. The idea if he goes in them, theyre going to get him, thats more on him than it is on them. Fair point . Yeah, i dont think the assumption is if he goes in there, theyre going to get him. Thats all they say all the time, ken. Certainly if youre a lawyer advising the president , your job is playing defense frankly, and that would be, as i said
earlier that would be my concern if i was advising the president. And, you know, you look at michael flynn. I think there are serious questions about whether he actually lied to the fbi. As we heard earlier in your show then why did he take the plea . Strzok himself for the same reasons that people like pat nolan and many others take a plea is they dont want to confront the potential alternative because the truth may not come out, and they know it. Wait, i dont understand. Lets take one more bead on that. Sure. And they cut their losses. I get that argument in certainly criminal situations where you know theyre going to get you on something so you try and cut yourself a good deal. But the argument keeps being made on behalf of michael flynn, general flynn, that, you know what, he did nothing inappropriate. He should have had that conversation with kislyak. Theres nothing wrong with it. Well, then, why did he lie about it, and why Wouldnt You Go To Trial and let that come out . Well, i dont know that that was the decisive factor. I think remember in flynns case, you had his son involved, and they were holding threats over his son over his head. Thats a pretty common tactic. Well drop all this stuff on all the people you care about if you just take the bullet. And, you know, that kind of tactic is not appropriate prosecution, but it is used. And from a prosecutors standpoint, ive worked with prosecutors. Ive managed prosecutors. Sometimes they think that looks appropriate. And the way this has all unfolded, there is at least some basis to be paranoid. Look, Paul Manafort is fini finishing his jury is in the third day of deliberation. If there was going to be a colluder within the Trump Campaign, it was going to be the guy who for years worked with the prorussian ukrainians, Paul Manafort. Theyve gone all the way through. They threatened him with everything they had, and there are no charges related in any way to the election, nothing. And papadopoulos, who we just saw the sentencing documents, you know, that came out from the prosecutor again. Hes a big nothingburger. Listen, i get you. Thats never been my bar as you know, ken. Its never been my bar is if you cant catch trump, then this probe is a waste. Thats never been my bar. Im saying, bakari, well dealing with a guy in the man of President Trump who has said so many times over the years, you never plead the fifth. You never run and hide. If youve got something to say, you go and say it. And now hes not following his own advice. Well, i think thats absurd. I think that sometimes its in your clients best interest to plead the fifth. I think lawyers are giving donald trump not Rudy Giuliani, but lawyers giving donald trump sound advice not to sit down with mueller because they know their client. But to simply just say these are oneoffs, i mean papadopoulos, lets talk about all of the liars that they have from the president of the united states, papadopoulos, michael flynn,
rick gates, Paul Manafort, jeff sessions, Melania Trump and her plagiarism. I mean the list goes on and on and on. So this isnt a oneoff. This is a culture in the white house. And so right now that culture is meeting the rule of law. And all donald trump has is his bully pulpit where hes going to stand up and say im going to take over the investigation. Im going to do this. Im going to do that. But the rule of law in this country wins. So we can have these as i nine or absurd debates about what truth is. To quote stephen colbert, truthiness. We can have all of these fickle debates but the point is the truth is what it is. And donald trump and his white house have a culture of not telling the truth. When you sit down across because ive been in this room many times before across from a federal investigator, i remind my clients all the time. Martha stewart did not go to jail for insider trading. Martha stewart went to jail for lying to federal investigators. Every single one of them who
have been charged with lying, they are liars. And most times you go to jail for a year and a day for that. Well end it there with one little note. I covered that Martha Stewart trial just about every day and theres another rule to that. When the prosecutors come to you and they want to make a deal and they want to talk to you, think twice before you tell them to get out and youre not nice. And thats another thing thats in play here too. What has he said about these prosecutors . What does that mean to the process . When we get more facts, come back and well go at it again. My next guest can go even deeper. He talks to the president regularly, travels with him still as well. What is going on in the president s mind right now . Wouldnt we