Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Thats what Rudy Giuliani said today. He wasnt arguing about that statement from Michael Cohen, who is alleging that President Trump did know about that meeting before it occurred. Rudy giuliani only said that he could state for the record that President Trump did not attend that meeting with those russian officials, which is not something that was in question in the first place. It was whether or not President Trump knew about it, which is something that his aides and President Trump himself have denied for months now, including that President Trump said he just found out about it in july of 2017, a year after it happened. And donald trump jr. Testified in front of lawmakers that his father did not know about it before. So it would be increasingly problematic. That is the question now, anderson. It is essentially the president s word versus Michael Cohens. But the white house does not seem to be at all enthusiastic about taking questions about Michael Cohen, including President Trump today, who has been tweeting about Michael Cohen. But when he is not in a structured setting where he can control the narrative, he does not seem eager at all to take questions about Michael Cohen, about whether the special
counsel Robert Mueller should trust Michael Cohen or anything related to his former lawyer and fixer at all. Has the white house had any response to the claims from giuliani this morning on television, i mean, its not being his statements are not being coordinated with the white house, are they . No, theyre not. And the white house has made that pretty clear ever since the president first hired Rudy Giuliani to be his lawyer. His statements have been increasingly problematic for the white house spokespeople because of course Rudy Giuliani will Say Something on television that contradicts what they have said in the past. Youll think of the Stormy Daniels payment. And if youll listen to what it was that Rudy Giuliani was saying this morning, you can see why the Press Secretaries are not eager to speak about it. Heres a little bit of what Rudy Giuliani said today. Which i dont even know thats a crime, colluding about russians. Okay. You start analyzing the crime. The hacking is the crime. The hacking is the crime. That certainly is the original problem, yes. The president didnt hack. Of course not. He didnt pay them for
hacking. Reporter so, you see there, Rudy Giuliani seems to be shifting the goalpost here and the defense of what the white house has said for months. There was no collusion. Right. Reporter then Rudy Giuliani goes on television. He says collusions not a crime. It raises all of these questions for the white house, and so far their tactic for dealing with what Rudy Giuliani says on tv has been to refer questions back to Rudy Giuliani. Anderson . Kaitlan, thanks very much. Perspective now from someone who had a view for a time inside the campaign. Someone who has already talked to Robert Muellers people about it. Joining us is former Trump Campaign aide sam nunberg. Great to have you back on. Thank you. This the Trump Tower Meeting, is it possible, in your mind, that donald trump jr. Or someone, Paul Manafort or kushner, would not have told donald trump, either in advance or after this meeting, that it had occurred . In the totality, during the campaign, i would assume perhaps donald trump knew about this meeting. But if were getting to the specifics here about whether donald trump and don jr. Are
telling the truth against now Michael Cohen, i believe donald trump and don jr. And let me also say for one quick reason, and youll understand this once we get into the weeds. Remember, goldstone, who works for the agalarov family, he sent that email directly to don jr. If you look at the emails, it was never forwarded to rhona graff, then Donald Trumps executive assistant, but essentially like his chief of staff. Right. There was, however, a blocked number call made by donald trump jr. , both, i think, before and after the meeting, the candidate, mr. Trump at the tell graphed that theres going to be some big revelation coming out about Hillary Clinton regarding russia that he never followed through on after the meeting took place. It just seems to me that if youre donald trump jr. And you get this email informing you
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. What do you see as his bias . Are you talking about no bias, heres what i see. Giulianis raising this spectre of hes inherent lly biassed. He should recuse himself because of some conflict. I dont think its a conflict between donald trump and Robert Mueller on the golf course. Thats a side issue. My issue is that we have 325 Million People in this country, and i think we have a lot of lawyers in this country. I understand why you would want to get the former fbi director in general, objectively be the special counsel when youre investigating the president of the united states. But Robert Muellers argument on obstruction, hes using james comey. If you hook at tlook at the stu, in the new york times, the questions that involve Michael Flynns firing. You look at all of them. Theyre all interrelated to
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Investigation. The irancontra investigation. I agree from that point. But we should get some kind of idea lets say, so we know why, why give up information about an Ongoing Investigation . About preliminary findings, about whether or not the Trump Campaign had some kind of coordination with the emails, and putin did the hacking. I would like to see where this is going, because what we dont know is what is going on. You have people in this country, americans, and theyll say Robert Mueller is ultimately going to get donald trump impeached. You have other people who say donald trump didnt do anything. Mueller this, mueller that. Do you know any investigation in which they give out preliminary stuff in. In is an ahistoric investigation. You have investigative reasons, it doesnt, for political reasons because youre talking about the investigation in terms of court. The criminal, the criminal part and these indictments. Im talking about the political. And this is political. Theyre building a narrative. This is political. And at the end of the day, 90 days from today, this is essentially Donald Trumps reelect, because he will be impeached by larry nadler if nancy pelosi is speaker. Want to welcome steve cortez and rich lowry. Do you think theres a scenario in which donald trump jr. Didnt tell his father about this Trump Tower Meeting ahead of time . I this i i think we need to focus on Rudy Giuliani, why did he go into a panic. Theyve all denied up and down that donald trump had knowledge about it. Now Michael Cohen is saying he can place it there. This is a problem for don jr. He has testified to the nsenate committee four times that he did
not tell his father about the meeting. Thats a perjury problem. I took note this giuliani placed rick gates at those meetings. His name came up in the conversation. Why is that important . Because rick gates is already a cooperating witness with the Mueller Investigation. He pled guilty to charges in early february. If he can corroborate what cohen says you have two people against the multiple denials that team trump is giving, that is a huge problem for don jr. When i see a problem, i mean the way giuliani framed this today. I have tremendous admiration. I think he was the best mayor in american history. Do you thinks doing his client any favors . I dont know what hes doing. He had me thoroughly confused. When he was talking about collusion, is it a crime or not, he was almost like a law
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with indepth reporting and investigations. Politics. That is what you see when you see Rudy Giuliani on tv. He is proving to be an awful lawyer. That is what we are seeing. Collusion is not a crime. Thats a fact. As a democrat, as a lawyer, i can tell you that collusion is not a crime. But mail fraud is, bank fraud, wire fraud, obstruction, perjury. The list goes on and on and on. Conspiracy. All of these things. The emails that were received by the Trump Campaign, the federal Election Commission views those at least of having a modicum of value. If you usurp those federal election laws youve krcommittea crime. Theyre doing a really good job muddying the water. But there are the issues for criminality that donald trump jr. Needs to be worried about, Jared Kushner needs to be worried about. I remember one famous quote, we should not have a president who is under federal investigation. You have a president and his family under federal investigation. And you heard that they cant control what giuliani said, is that a problem . If were you coordinating with giuliani, youd have to worry about the judgment of the White House Press team. Hes wild, undisciplined, but he is not out there to make a classical legal case for the president. He is a public advocate. His job is to throw haymakers every day. We might gawk, scratch our heads and snicker, buts succeeding. The key metric as vacari and others have said is political. Are Robert Muellers numbers going up or going down . Theyre going down. And this is the first stage of a potential impeachment fight. President trumps not going to be indicted. Hes not going to be tried. If it goes further, its going
to be a political question about impeachment fought out in congress. Its been political from the very beginning. If it were criminal, a crime is committed and an investigation commences. Thats not true. No, the crime that was committed. [ talking simultaneously ] one at a time. Im talking. Their is is an Investigation Search of a crime. Thats not true. Yes it , it is true. The crime was that information was stolen from the clinton campaign. The question is did members of the Trump Campaign knowingly solicit that information for use in an election, and if that is true, that triggers all kinds of crimes. Were acting like this is something the russians did. No, that is stolen information. Its like if someone stole a car and you decided to take it for a joyride and said oh, i didnt know it was stolen. You cant do that. The fbi or Justice Department would be more than empowered to
investigate that. We dont need a special counsel t. May be an obstruction of justice case. No. [ talking simultaneously ] twilight zone. This whole Talking Point about this not be being a valid investigation, this being a witch hunt, lets talk about all the people indicted and ask where is the crime committed, lets talk about the people who pled guilty. Lets talk about them. All russians and Paul Manafort. And rick gates. I was with Paul Manafort backstage at the rnc because he ran your convention. He was your campaign manager. This isnt somebody. Right. [ talking simultaneously ] this wasnt the driver. Papadopoulos. Pled guilty. You have, let me give you facts because youre in hyperbole land. You have 13 russian nationals
who have been charged with hacking our elections. So you can say what you want to say, but these are all facts. This is a real investigation. We got to take a break. Well pick up the conversation and talk more about the president s new attacks on special counsel mueller later. New progress on the fire lines in california as crews work round the clock in some of the worst conditions imaginable. The pictures are incredible. Well be right back. Its so hard to believe but its all coming back me. Baby, baby, baby. All you can eat is back, baby. Applebees. I knew at that exact moment. Im beating this. My main focus was to find a team of doctors. Its not just picking a surgeon, its picking the care team and feeling secure in where you are. Visit cancercenter. Com breast
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op goi ongoing attacks on Robert Mueller. Over the weekend he tweeted, is Robert Mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump. The president now saying that mueller has conflicts of interest. Giuliani was pressed on those conflicts and wouldnt elaborate. I assume hes talking about this golf membership stuff. Joil sa giuliani said i have a good idea what it is, it seems like it has gone to a ten in just a matter of days. Theyre using every means fair or foul, to undermine the prosecutor, which is what happens in many highlypoliticallycharged cases. I have known any president , except for maybe george w. Bush
who hasnt tried to undermine the prosecutor. This is typical politics. Take it up to a 11. Thats the number donald trump is comfortable with on everything. But this is a version of what bill clinton did against ken starr and george h. W. Bushs team did it on iran contra. Its typical washington politics but the volume and intensity is higher than usual. The bottom line, the president himself still hasnt answered questions about the cohen tape, why the Trump Campaign lied about it, the knowledge of the deal with ami and Karen Mcdougal, his response to the reporting that he knew about the Trump Tower Meeting in advance. Shouldnt he answer those questions himself in. I do. You mentioned the ami deal. I agree with what amanda said before the break, of course
hacking into citizens, dnc, those things should be investigated. But hes looking into things from ten years ago. Are we saying Karen Mcdougal hacked the dnc . Its an openended investigation into Donald Trumps life to try to find something, why . To try to nullify our 2016 victory and delegitimize the president because his enemies in media and on the hill and even within his own Justice Department have been hell bent since the day he won to delegitimize. Questioning peoples motives, what they think about trump is not astound political or legal defense. In addition to him saying collusion is not a crime, he oddly said trump was not physically present at the Trump Tower Meeting. And to me, that may be a way
that giuliani was trying to draw a very fine line that trump may walk. I think that warrants more followup in what giuliani meant by saying he was not physical think present. Theres no indication that it was anything other than the nothing burger. The white whale as you referred to before the break is some kind of conspiracy with the russians to commit a crime and hack these emails. So far we have zero, zero evidence ever that. Very suspicious in which trump said not only that. The speech about Hillary Clinton. [ speaking simultaneously [ as many ] one at a time, one at a time. The timing is suspicious. Is he openly sending signals to russians with his s