The former sae house. First, Miguel Marquez has the latest. Reporter parker rice 19yearold freshman expelled from the university of oklahoma has pretty much vanished. [ knocking ] at his home in dallas no sign of him nor his family. He and members of the sae fraternity clearly avoiding publicity after the video was leaked to the School Newspaper and ricochetting around the world. At the Sigma Alpha Epsilon house, traditional letters unceremoniously removed. Today, a steady flow of moving trucks. Big job . I have no idea. Reporter fast job . Your guess good as mine is right now. Its last minute call, so. Reporter at the sae house, a last minute scramble to clear out. Hello . Hello . How are you . Cnn. Can i chat with somebody . It is 4 00 here in oklahoma and the parking lot here at the sae house is nearly empty hours ahead of the deadline imposed by the university. This entire fraternity shut down. Students here in full protest mode. The story Football Team linking arms in a powerful show of support for the demonstrators but there is fallout. One star recruit who signed on to play for ou now says no way. I wouldnt want my son or child going anywhere like that. Dont want my brothers going anywhere like that. It was disturbing to me. I dont like it. Reporter bright spot out of work sae chef howard dixon hit an unexpected jackpot. More than 60,000 raised for him online. And those who attended ou pledged sae in love both institutions or left scratched heads and left. When you saw this how did you react . Shocked. Absolutely shocked. Thats all i can say. I think its wrong to judge the entire house on what a few did on a bus. Reporter bob burnham was overwhelmed. Why did you come here to see this place after so many years . Well, it was. Miguel marquez joining us in front of the sae fraternity house. Is there likely to be more expulsions expulsions . Reporter it looks like there may be more expulsions certainly disciplinary actions. The school wants to know everybody on that bus, what their role was, what they were doing before any final decisions but sounds like it is very much leaving the door open to explulgsex expulsions expulsions. This chant is used more often. In apology statement, he said he was taught this chant. He doesnt say who he taught it by. Do we know more about it . Reporter we dont know a lot more. Were getting glimpses. It is a secretive society as all fraternities are, but we know in other areas, students have told me they have heard similar or the same chant before. It has been reported in other areas around the country that the similar or same chant has been used by sae fraternities. The National Chapter said this is nothing that is sanctioned. This is not an sae chant, yet we keep hearing in dribs and drabs, individuals coming forward saying it is something they have heard before. Its a fraternity formed around the time of the civil war. Anderson . Yeah. Miguel marquez, thank you very much. In case youre wondering about the kind of Racial Climate at the sae house, heres another video that surfaced. The sae house mother from ou wrapping along the trinidad and seemingly excited to be using the n word. [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. Record n bomb three times in a row. Broken and friends. Does not tolerate any form of discrimination in her life and said she knew nothing about the chant. Joining us, sae associate, executive director of association, brandon, thank you for being with us. Two members of the fraternity kicked out of school today. Do you believe that was a just punishment . Absolutely. We believe theres consequences for your actions. Its unfortunate someone has to be expelled from the University Like that but there are things that you have to take into consideration and especially in a hateful message like that. They dont represent us. They dont represent anyone. The students in the video, certainly didnt seem like this was the first time they chanted this. Were you aware of this chant before . Again, the young man in the statement just released says this is a chant he had been taught. He doesnt say who taught it. Right. Weve been asked that question also on the Headquarters Level and also looked into these different faces. This was taught by the National Organization theres absolutely nothing in our history, especially related to our songs of course that has to do with a chant thats inappropriate and racist and just disgusting like this. And i dont understand were sort of trying to figure out how we can validate that and hold other people and other chapters accountable if we know they have details about this or participating in Something Like this. How many black members have there been in the university of oklahomas sae chamtpter . I dont know the exact number because until a year and a half or two years ago, we were not really asking ethnicity as part of reporting to the National Headquarters because we never thought its been important the color of your skin or background of origin simply whether or not you have the characteristics and really the character and moral value were looking for. So in the data we have currently, it doesnt actually reflect the entire span of the current undergraduates across the country. There is an essay written by an africanamerican man who joined this chapter 4 years ago. He was the second black man ever at the chapter and since then not been a third. The entire history of the chapter chapter, theres been two africanamerican members of the sae fraternity and i guess im wondering, what sort of oversight at all do you have of your fraternities . Because as a National Organization i would think if you looked and said gee, in the past 14 years, there isnt been one black person at this fraternity thats kind of odd. It may seem odd for obviously this particular case and to say, this is somehow indicative of all the chapters across the country. Thats not true. There are chapters in the country right now even though theres not a statistic behind it that we know from interacting with and from training and other events theres chapters where there are white students the minority and other chapters there are other minorities or other groups that are representative. There are chapters where a lot of people come from homes and english isnt spoken as a primary first language, so it depends what campus youre at. Im just wondering as an organization was there never a time when somebody from the National Organization visited this chapter or looked at the roles of this chapter and in the last 14 years, never said huh, theres no black people here and theres only been two black people in the history of this thing. What kind of oversight do you actually have . Absolutely and the thing is that the oversight of the National Office is that we work with the chapters we do visit the chapters but chapters are autonomous. In other words we do not mandate who they can or take from membership. There are regulations from the type of individual they should extend to join too, but again, in terms of saying this is a problem, it is not something that again, to the National Organization has stepped in to say we need to monitor this more closely only in the sense there are certainly things we want and the things the organization has. Do you think that should be something to say to local chapters you know what it would be a good idea to have a diverse student body as part of this fraternity. It reflects the values we care about. Is that something youre thinking about doing . Absolutely yes. The leadership is dedicated to making sure of this. The response to the National Organization isnt about just closing a chapter, the members are facing expulsion soon. But we cant control the past. Its the past. What we can do is focus on the current situation, where we are right now as an organization and what we need to do to change this to make it better to learn from things and make sure our members understand this is the type of thing that we stand for as a fraternity because its the right thing to do and because we need to move forward from this situation. Its wrong to vilify Sigma Alpha Epsilon across the country based on a chapter or a couple of chapters or instances that happened even over a 10 or 20 year span. Still, its a large National Organization. Are you concerned at all though according to the Washington Post online sae talks about its roots in the precivil war south and highlights how few early members fought for the union and how few fought for the confederacy. Im wondering as you think about the future is that a message that you really want to be promoting . Because im just wondering how many africanamericans would really want to join something where the organization is promoting how may people fought for the confederacy and how many people fought to uphold slavery and something that you have on your web site. We obviously looked at that to see how thats perceived by anybody who is considering joining the fraternity at any campus across the country but the reality is that we were founded in 1856 at the university of alabama in tuscaloosa. So the early members of the fraternity and the history of the organization is exactly that. We have a lot to be proud of in Sigma Alpha Epsilon. But we know the history of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, what is affiliated and not affiliated with sae. The bigger issue, we need to communicate that and how its perceived by people not in the fraternity. I get being proud of ones history. I have roots in the south as well. I understand being proud of, you know the people who founded the fraternity. I know a lot of pledges memorize the names of the original founders and apparently this bus was going to a founders day party but dont you think, if one of your goals moving forward is perhaps and maybe its not but to attract africanamerican members, you say you think about how it might be perceived, dont you think that would be perceived differently by africanamericans than it might be perceived by whites of the southern background . Absolutely. And theres part of the discussion i mean were looking at a lot of different options. Our leadership is also engaged with people to reach out to us to offer their support and also the things that they think that we need to take into consideration. So that we can do a better job of being able to communicate more accurately what sae is and looking at, you know the type of person we want because it is true that we dont look at diversity in the sense of just being the color of someones skin or the ethnicity. Theres a lot of diversity in the organization that is not just about that. Background in terms of that. But some diversity in terms of color of skin might not be a bad idea . Absolutely. If you look at chapters across the country or look now, they would look at not be able to how can you say were not diverse . Were going to do that now. Thank you, bran don. Joining me now is mig gel sooix, president of the delta. And naomi, codirector of ou unheard. Lets start with you michaela. When you first saw this video, im sure you were horrified who as someone who belongs to the fraternity. It was upsetting, extremely disturbing to see members of the organization to have that belief and chant as a part of their traditions or whatever. It was extremely disturbing and really sad to see. And how many africanamerican members are at your fraternity right now . We have about a 42 man chapter. Theres about four of us that are africanamerican. We just graduated a couple of years ago. Weve had a few africanamerican members at our chapter. Our school Delta State University in cleveland, did a good job of promoting diversity among organizations and a good greek system there. Any concern on your part when you were thinking about joining or rushing as you call it on the web site founded in the south and how many members fought with the confederacy. Any concern on your part . Never. And thats mainly and solely because of the people that were already in the organization. I met them and they were just upstanding gentlemen and it was absolutely something i wanted to be a part of. The true gentlemen spells out everything i want to be as a man in life and so there was never any concern about that on my end. About being a true gentleman, something sae talks about in their fraternities. Naomi, i know your group hasnt had time to discuss the expulsions but personally do you think the ou president has done enough . I wouldnt say its enough but we are standing behind our president s decision and we are very grateful that hes moving swiftly and not taking this situation lightly. I know its important that the conversation doesnt end with these expulsions. What do you think needed to happen next on your campus . For us as unheard, i know were not really focusing on expulsion or any punishment. We want this to be a learning moment for not just sae, but for organizations across campus, even nationally. Were so glad this thing has gained National Attention because this can be the change. It can start change and really just bring peoples attention and allow people to notice these things are happening. People arent making this up with microaggression in the city or anywhere else. Its interesting. When you look at statistics and polls, often you have africanamericans in this country saying, you know this is a conversation we need to have more of and oftentimes caucasian americans in polls say, this isnt something we need to be talking about so much. Youre saying, this is actually a good thing its become part of a national discussion. Definitely. These things are happening. And for people whether they be white, black, blue or purple who are experiencing them its easy to say this isnt happening. This isnt real. Were in postracial america. But for people like myself and people representing the group unheard, this is happening. This is something we see everyday. A lot of people if you ask, theyll say they werent shocked this happened when they saw the video. They were not shocked. I heard that so much. This is why. So im definitely glad this is a conversation thats now happening nationally. To mickle what would you say about what needs to change if something needs to change does there need to be more oversight, more effort to attract or to at least let people see the organization that you see and, i mean does something need to change in this organization . It really varies from chapter to chapter. Theres a lot of chapters i know of that promote diversity. Our chapter at delta state and, you know theres a lot of chapters that may not and an organization thats 15,000 undergraduates youre going to have bad apples and its really unfortunate when that happens but, you know, not necessarily sure of the best solution or the best, you know way the National Organization can go about fixing the problem, but i think the first step is recognizing that there is a problem and then, you know, brain stoormstorming different ideas on how to solve that. Do you believe the National Organization has done enough . As far as doing enough like i said no. There definitely needs to be a teaching aspect of this. Punishment okay. It will go so far. But if we dont teach and hone in on the issue of why it was wrong, its not okay. Its not enough. Naomi, appreciate you being on and mikels. Thank you. Watch 360 on dvr whenever you want. Students was that justified this time . Is it never justified, can university actually do that . What about the First Amendment . 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This is what hes apologizing for. Take a look. There will never be a [ bleep ] at sae. There will never be a n word at sae. We just got the top of the program, i want to read more now. He said quote, i know Everyone Wants to know why or how it happened. It was fueled likely by alcohol consumed but thats not an excuse. Yes, the song was taught to us but that too doesnt work as an explanation. Its more important to acknowledge what i did and what i didnt do. I didnt say no and clearly dismissed an important value i learned at my beloved high School Dallas jesuit. Completely ignored the core values i learned from parents and others. Parker rice a few moments ago. What he and the others did was hateful and ugly. Should hateful and ugly get you expelled where free speech is so valued. Michael myers and charles blow. Was the expulsion of two students justified . No. Why . First of all, this is a public university. Not a private university. We have a First Amendment to the United States constitution. This is the United States of america. We believe in free speech. And you only have a First Amendment to protect the speech with which we disagree and we can disagree vehemently but its speech that is protected by the constitution. Now, it can be hateful speech racist speech but guess what . Free speech on a bus does