Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120801 : comparem

Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120801



simply seizing firearms purchased from mexican drug cartels by so-called straw buyers throughout the southwest. instead, says the report, fast and furious was part of a plan to let those buyers and the guns walk in hopes of identifying and busting entire gun running networks. instead, fast and furious guns began turning up at crime scenes in mexico and here at home, including the killing of u.s. border agent brian terry in 2010 right before christmas. his death came at the end of a long chain of mistakes starting at gun shops it the gun dealers were reassured atf was closely monitoring the transactions and interdicting the weapons. the report focuses sharply on this man. william newell. the republican investigators concluding that agent newell authorized and endorsed fast and furious and let it continue long after atf had the goods on the straw buyers. bill newell had the ability and the duty to end operation fast and furious much sooner than it did. instead, the report states, it ended as a reaction to a foreseeable tragedy. despite prior warnings during the bush administration about pushing the envelope reverted in the words of the report, quote, to the use of risky gun walking tactics. his boss, william mcmahon, also comes in for congressional criticism. the report stating in mcmahon's view, it was not his job to ask any questions about what was going on in the field. his supervisor, mark shade, is slammed for playing, quote, a surprisingly passive role, end quote. and failing to provide oversight. and his boss, deputy atf director william hoover, is accused of dereliction of duty in the report because he ordered fast and furious be shut down but did not follow through. the report blames then acting atf director kenneth milfin. the family certainly wishes he would have. i spoke recently with his cousin, robert hire. >> this is about right and wrong. operation fast and furious, everybody concurs, was a flawed operation. in concept and execution. it was wrong. it was a huge public safety concern and it remains a huge public safety concern. and just as josephine said, our worst fear is to open up the paper or to read a news story where another border patrol agent has been killed or injured with an operation fast and furious weapon. >> in addition, two fast and furious guns were found at a crime scene in mexico. the atf phoenix office sought to shut up the fast and furious connection. quote, my thought, agent english writes, is not to release any information. the following month when terry was killed broke the e-mail back. ugh, things will most likely get ugly. tu attorney general holder has refused to turn over documents. william newell denies there ever was a plan or tactic to walk guns. and a recent investigation by "fortune" magazine concurs. that report, though, sharply disputed. the justice department calls it a repeat of theories advanced for the past year and a half. congressman issa joins us. the five individuals this report claims were primarily responsible for the failures of fast and furious, was it more their actions and choices that led to the failure? or the largest action within the atf, within the department of justice? >> think it's a larger problem. part of what the report cites is the lack of communication between atf, the dea, the fbi and certainly the department of justice and also homeland security. because i.c.e. was heavily involved in this. what we're doing -- this is the first report out of three. we're also looking at the department of justice and how they reacted and certainly the cover-up after we got this bogus letter. from the department of justice. so -- >> but investigatorings are saying right now the investigation in this report is based on whether this is the best information available as of now. do you anticipate you'll ever know the full details of this operation? >> well, remember, the house held attorney general holder, the department of justice in contempt. it wasn't about him personally. it was the fast there were 140,000 documents. we've received less than 7,000 of those documents. so we're here to not only investigate what happened in this botched plan but also to make sure that it never, ever happened again. and that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of, anderson. >> i want to read what the justice department said. they responded earlier this afternoon through their spokesperson. saying the report finally acknowledges what attorney general eric holder has been saying. flaws in the operations had their origins in the field in arizona and occurred in part due to weak oversight by atf leadership. they went on to say the report, and i quote, reiterates many of the distortions and now debunked conspiracy theories representative issa has been using for the past year and a half. were somehow the brain cheeld of the current administration as opposed to the reality that the pattern of flawed tactics dates back to '06 and the prior administration. your response? >> just because the bush administration did it and did it poorly doesn't mean they have an excuse to continue to do it. look, we've always wanted to get to the bottom of this. i think chairman issa has been doing a fabulous job in putting this together it the department of justice, though, their fingerprints s are on this. in almost 2 1/2 years that he was there, he met with his boss, the attorney general, attorney general holder, one time. and so you look at this lack of leadership, this coordination, and it's above and beyond. certainly there were flaws within the atf. you've got to look at the department of justice and the interagency -- interactions or the lack of interaction that led to this flawed program. >> it is confusing though. in "fortune" magazine last month, they reported there was no top-down systemwide directive to allow guns to walk across the border. there was a dysfunctional work relationship in the atf arizona office and dodson, the main whistle blower in all this is the only person who allowed guns to walk. how does this relate to your understanding? >> thank goodness we had good front line people at the atf be whistle blowers and bring there to our attention. in february 4th, 2011, sent congress, specifically senator grassley, a letter denying any of this is happening. ten months later they came back and had to deny that. that's in part why you had this firestorm. it goes above and beyond the atf. there's some fundamentally flawed actions here. but you can't ignore the senior people at the department of justice. people that were signing off, for instance, on wiretaps and other types of things. they clearly had to know or should have known this was happening. >> your report does, though, seem to support at least part of that fortune article. that the atf were hamstrung by prosecutors. >> hey, look everybody wanted to go get the drug cartels. the problem is, they put this ridiculous plan together. something was fundamentally flawed from the beginning. just look at it on the surface. we knowingly gave the drug cartels nearly 2,000 weapons. mostly a.k. 47s. there didn't seem to be an adult in the room that said, do we really do that? maybe this is a bad idea. it's just stunning this is continued to allow to go on for so long with so many weapon, anderson, that's what's so concerning. >> representative, i appreciate you being on, thank you so much. let us know what you think about this whole operation. we're on facebook. follow me on twitter right now @andersoncooper. the reporters are hitting the highlights. what began with a gaffe ended with a verbal volcano. >> governor romney -- >> show some respect -- >> we haven't had another chance to ask him questions. >> [ bleep ]. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! 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>>sorry. he wants you to know about priceline's new express deals. it's a faster way to get a great hotel deal without bidding. pick one with a pool, a gym, a great guest rating. >>and save big. >>thanks negotiator. wherever you are. ya, no. he's over here. >>in the refrigerator? raw politics now. say you're a presidential politics press handler. what's the last thing you do? well, take a look. >> governor romney! >> governor -- >> mishaps on your trip. >> governor romney, do you have a statement for the palestinians? >> what about your gaffe? >> governor romney, do you feel your gaffes have overshadowed your foreign trip? >> show some respect. >> we haven't had another chance to ask him questions. >> kiss my [ bleep ]. this is a holy site for the polish people. show some respect. >> that was the voice of the romney press secretary rick gorca there, managing to get the kissing part and the show some respect parts in the same breath. he apologized afterwards. you can argue shouting questions after a wreath laying less than dignified. argue it's practically the only chance anyone's had for anything resembling a news conference. let's be honest here, they're hardly the first campaign from either party to avoid encounters with reporters. cnn's jim acosta is traveling with governor romney who is now back on american soil. it's prettyunusual to have a press aide lash out like that at reporters. >> well, we were watching mitt romney pay his tributes to the tomb of the unknown soldier here in warsaw and watched him basically walk away from that site. talking with the mayor of warsaw. he was spending a few moments with her. and then moving towards his vehicle. and then at that point, we tried to -- you know, to the best of our ability, ask the candidate some questions. he did not answer any questions. his press aide did walk over and lash out at us, as you said. basically, anderson, these were the general guard arden variety hear out on the campaign trail. shouted questions happen back in the states and they happen on this overseas trips. there were some frustrations that led up to this. the romney campaign was starting to gripe about the fact that the reporters in their mind were starting to focus on some of these gaffes out here on this trip instead of what they thought was the substance of this trip. >> i guess that gets to the larger point. is that -- look, it's a grueling schedule. these folks are under a lot of pressure. is this just a one off, tired overworked campaign aide? or is it something that -- is something else going on here? is this something larger? >> this stuff happens out on the campaign trail. as you know, anderson, you're out with us from time to time. candidates sometimes say things. you'll remember george w. bush referred to a "new york times" reporter as a major league a-hole. over in the 2004 campaign, teresa heinz kerry told a reporter to shove it. so these sorts of things flare up from time to time. nobody walked away with any hard feelingis. we're big boys and girls. we can take it. >> is that really fair though? how much different then other presidential candidates is he in that regard? were they really that much more accessible than romney? >> no. this is the way campaigns are done now. the reporters are kept off to the side. cordoned off from the public in many cases. and whether it's president obama or john kerry back in 2004, mitt romney in 2012. what the public needs to know is they almost have greater access to the candidates at some of these events than the reporters do. you'll notice when the campaign speeches wrap up, the music starts playing really loudly across an event site. in part, that is to keep everybody in the campaign spirit. it's also to drown out our questions, andern. >> jim acosta, appreciate it. jim, thanks. the best political couple on television now. democrat james carville. republican mary matalin. did mitt romney gain anything out of this foreign trip? >> no. it wasn't a very good trip for him. i think the frustration of the press guy in poland -- that happened. i've been in presidential campaigns before. airplane hangar in new hampshire in 1982. i just went berserk because we didn't have a good week. when you don't have a good week, the candidate's unhappy and the press guy gets unhappy. you scream at reporters. that's the nature of the beast. it's a long time between now and november. >> mary, do you think mitt romney got anything out of this foreign trip? >> yes, i absolutely do. because the speeches were great. the images were great. people are watching the olympics but to the extent they're paying attention to his trip, the voters that matter, that are undeeb siu undecided, and there are only a handful, saw him standing with bebenetanyahu. he looks very presidential. and an aide yelling at the press -- i'm sorry to have to say, i'm embarrassed to say, is not unusual. we both have been guilty of it. both have almost been fired on multiple occasions. it just happens. what's different now is there's video cameras on all the time. >> there's a lot of coverage of gaffes that he made or criticisms by the british people about things he said about the olympics. there was controversy about a thing that was about the palestinians. you don't think that registers? >> what he said about the olympics was a mild version of what the headlines have been screaming. that the security was in shambles. he said it was disconverting. ahmadinejad is complaining about his saying that israel has the right to defend itself. the labor party in london. if you take the critics, i think -- i'm going to say, again, i think it was fine. my larger point is this. of the things that are relevant in the rhythm of the campaign with fewer than 100 days to go, the next pivot point, which they've lined up today and they've announced their campaign schedule to go to these swing states, announce his vice president, have a solid convention and keep doing what he's doing. this is not going to move the needle one way or the other. >> did it make sense for him to go overseas? >> no. if they can figure out a way to take pictures and get him to shut up, he'd have a successful trip, but it doesn't work like that. mitt romney is a man who's convinced the world and the country wants to know his opinion on every single thing. you know, that's it is commentators on television. not for presidential candidates. he's got to learn to understand that there's some glory in an unspoken thought. and that would help him a lot. >> were you two watching different tvs in your home? i mean, because you're both -- your perceptions of what occurred overseas are so completely radically different. >> we only watch tv together when we're watching you, anderson. otherwise, we don't even sit together in a political conversation. >> the visuals were good. if he can do it without talking. we agree on half of of it. he had good visuals. >> james should know, he's a great visual till he opens his mouth. he knows of what he speaks. >> mary, did it take away from his political argument? >> i'm not saying what he says matters. when he wasn't talking about solidarity and the real hope and change did take place with the free economy in poland. when all the dust settles on the silly season stuff and people read the -- and critics honestly give a rigorous reading of the speeches he gave, he gave a very powerful remarks in israel and in poland. those are very important. i'm not just saying it's perception, it's reality. it's just images. i'm saying to the extend electorate, those who are undecided, are paying attention at this point in time, they're seeing these great images. their speeches were solid as well. they will over time play out. it doesn't matter what he says. when the growth and numbers we got last week were 1.5%. this economy gets worse and worse. and obama does worse and worse. so this is a mandatory part for romney to do what he did and he did a fine job. >> james, i want -- >> running for president is like flying an airplane. if you do 99 smart things and 1 stupid thing, it's the 1 stupid thing people remember. it's the way it works. it's always been that way. >> i want to ask you something about harry reid said today. he's claiming a bain investor told him romney didn't pay any taxes for a decade. to publicly make that claim based on a single source, is he out of line there? >> in "the new york times" today, speculating all over the place that romney used these off shore accounts in the bahamas or switzerland or whatever it is to avoid paying civic taxes on some of his retirement accounts. something like that. there's a way that romney can show harry reid's not telling the truth. >> mary? >> anderson, it's one thing for a campaign hack to call ridiculously call the nominee for the republican ticket a felon. it's quite another for the sitting senate majority leader. romney has put out his taxes. the years that he put it out for, he paid $6 million in taxes and he made $7 million in charitable contributions. if he puts out, as cheney said, somewhere today, he put out two, they want four. you put out four, they want six. this is a distraction. people do not care what romney's doing with his money. he paid every legal tax. they care what obama's doing with their money. that's what this campaign is going to be about. >> do you think this drumbeat by reporters and others on the taxes, do you think it is having an impact? >> sure. it's already had one. you've got a republican expert, tax expert, speculating. when people don't know, they speculate. you know, you want to run for president, you got to do some things. and romney wants everything on his terms. he wants to pontificate and render his opinion on everything in the world. but yet he says he doesn't want to do this. he should have known this before he ran. what did he think he was going to do? he goes over to britain. he says something stupid. the same thing. makes some insensitive remark in the middle east. 20% of the people who live in israel are palestinian. he insulted a good 20% of the population there. he wants to get mad at reporters for it. he's got to game up here. he's playing in the bigs here. >> can we just clarify that mitt romney said nothing to the reporters. an aide said something to the reporters. and i think that the media's held in lower esteem than the congress. if you want that jim acosta piece, which i've now seen four times, i don't know who the reporter was. it was unfortunate. her juxtaposition with the microphone. that looked like screeching. the aide looked calm and said what he said. that is not going to affect one person's vote. and i t

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