Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120315 : comparem

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 March 15, 2012



>> our goal was to take out one-third of the delegates and possibly slightly better than that. i think we will exceed that goal. >> your goal wasn't to win one of these states? >> i don't think that anyone expected to win alabama or mississippi. as mitt said early on in the campaign, this was an away game for him and i think that is true. >> this is a delegate contest. like i said our goal was to come in, take a third of the delegates. >> keeping them honest on the claim that nobody expected him to win alabama or mississippi. at least one person did expect, mitt romney in mobile, alabama. >> we're going to win tomorrow. we need your help. >> that was the night before the primaries. not to single out governor romney, listen to newt gingrich spin the results. >> i want to tell you this. we will have throw or four days in the news miedia. these are the same people that said why isn't he dead. they raise this every few weeks. >> i don't know if you heard about him wanting to finish second. >> we came in second which isn't as much as we wanted. >> keeping them honest, mississippi and alabama two states that the gingrich campaign described as must win. last night gingrich spokeswoman, marcy hammond the man that used the words must win jokingly said this to reporters, whoever said that should be flocked. he said the campaign would go on because he didn't expect any of the contenders to win the delegates necessary to secure the nomination before the convention in tampa. each campaign, in fact, has its own scenario for getting to 1144 delegates or prevailing at the convention without the 1144 going in. the question is does newt gingrich have a path to the nomination? in a moment we will hear from a campaign adviser. but first john king runs the numbers. >> the path to the nomination, you mean clinching the answer is no. look at the state of play after last night. you see a lot of santorum purple. the gingrich campaign said it fwrent spartanburg to texas. rick santorum ruined that last night. they are on to plan c. two wins for gingrich. can he come back again? let's look at where we are after last night. need 1144 to clinch. romney is shy of 500. if you add up gingrich, santorum and paul. these are estimates so the campaign may say it is higher but others may say it is lower but about 140. speaker gingrich won south carolina and georgia. he was denied in alabama and mississippi. for the sake of a hypothetical what if he came back and won everything. everything from here on out. every single state. i'm going to do that for you and under this scenario, romney, santorum and ron paul are still in the place. i'm going to save you time and go to the end. that is a santorum strategy for you. watch this. watch this. we go back to today. this is gingrich wins them all. gingrich wins them all. winning texas in the middle. he would get, he would catch up almost to governor romney. not quite. the gingrich you campaign would say if he got to the convention they could go to the convention and make the case we came back late. i want to say for the sake of reality, though, you call it keeping them honest it is hard to see speaker gingrich if he comes back winning utah. you have to assume romney gets that. hard to see he would win rick santorum's home state of pennsylvania. let's turn it purple. i see a hard time seeing him win connecticut. i will give that to romney. new york i will give to romney. if gingrich wins most there are others i could be skeptical about. stronger in the midwest. his campaign would argue he has a better chance than speaker gingrich in wisconsin. i'll stop here. i switched a few of them back. and this scenario if i stop includes gingrich winning new jersey here, includes gingrich winning california here. i'm a bit skeptical about that. under this scenario, romney at 924, gingrich would be in second place. their point would be right, nobody would have clinched. gingrich would be in second. this is a dream scenario. most people watching at home would think who know the rules pretty implausible. >> john stay with us because i want to bring in randy evans, a senior adviser to the gingrich campaign. you heard what john king said. a lot of people are saying you're not winning. santorum is. mitt romney will face united conservative opposition. why is that wrong? >> we're not even to halftime yet. halftime is on april 24th, which is louisiana. after halftime we hit the third quarter. let me show you this little chart here which is helpful. there are three big dates to focus on. march 24th it will be halftime. may 22nd will be the beginning of the fourth quarter and june 26th will be overtime. and why are those dates really important? no candidate by the time we reach louisiana will have one-half of the number in order to secure the nomination. the reason that's true is because there are so few legally bound delegates. for example, john used pennsylvania. pennsylvania's 69 votes aren't legally bound. it's true for many other states. there are almost 500 not legally bound. this will go to overtime, this will be a july nomination. if you take what john just showed you, and i agree with him, that map saves a lot of time. the cnn map is the best map. it shows the numbers. it enables you to calculate your own numbers. if you took john king's map, add santorum's number and gingrich's number and tell me what you get, because that's what happens when you get to july if you don't have a nominee. you have conservatives, conservative delegates who have rejected governor romney making the decision about who the nominee will be and they come to a decision before they get to tampa. >> john, what about that argument? >> that is a possibility. i concede the point. if you can stop governor romney from getting to 1144, and i'll be very clear here, i have no horse in this race, it's hard to do that. it's hard to the that but not impossible. it's not impossible. so it's not impossible to stop him. this scenario stops him with speaker gingrich in second place and you're right, if you add up gingrich and santorum, that's not even enough to clinch there but it would be close and past governor romney. let me show you just for the sake of argument, i'll show you a different scenario. this is one the santorum campaign thinks is more likely. i'll skip the states in the middle and go to the end. the santorum campaign thinks speaker gingrich is effectively dead as a candidate. i know randy disagrees with that. let's look at another scenario. this is santorum. i'm being very generous. romney clinches in this scenario. if santorum or gingrich, let's assume i'm not giving these to any candidates. if you take away california and new jersey, the other two add up to roughly romney. sure, you can come up with a scenario, and i think the next ten days if romney stumbles some more will tell us whether or not it's a reasonable scenario to think about of getting to the convention denying him. then the conversation becomes is it speaker gingrich in second place, then he has leverage going in. is it santorum in second place? has this happened in any of our life times? no. >> what changed between last week when people in the gingrich campaign were saying alabama and mississippi are must win and today when speaker gingrich did not win them and people in the campaign are saying, okay, well, they were no longer must win? >> i don't know who said that last week. i know that i wrote a piece -- >> r.c. hammond said it. >> well, that's great. i know that i wrote a piece which was disseminated to the media and sent out to all of our volunteers that said we're in a situation -- we're in uncharted waters. this will be an historic nomination where no candidate will receive the legally bound number before the process ends. i think governor romney even conceded today that it would be a couple of months, which is effectively saying that it will be into june. at the end of the process we'll end up without a nominee. but the one thing that we do know is that two-thirds of the delegates don't want mitt romney. and so we know who it won't be. the only way governor romney can actually win is to force the nomination by securing the number, but mathematically that's now not possible. and john, i'll disagree with you on one point. i think the most important part of this process will be that may 22nd through june 5th time period. a three-week period where 500 plus delegates get picked. they begin with arkansas, kentucky. >> right. >> those can be away games for governor romney, but it doesn't get the trick. arkansas, kentucky leads into texas, 155 delegates. and then you go into june 5th where you have two winner take alls. why is winner take all so important? it's california and new jersey. why is that important? there is no second place, there is no third place, there is only first place. 500 delegates added to any one of those totals, any one of those totals changes the whole math. >> john, finally, do you believe speaker gingrich will go all the way to the convention? we're hearing his campaign is saying, yes, that's the plan. >> i take him at his word right now. i think he's a politician. i take him at his word and i also know he's a good, loyal republican. i think after every one of these he will sit down and talk to his wife and his team, including randy, and think about it. i want to make the point that randy is right, especially about the big prizes at the end. texas is moved back. new jersey is at the end. california is at the end. this is just what any other campaign would say. i applaud anybody who's loyal to a candidate who says my guy can still win. but what any other campaign would tell you and most republicans would tell you is looking at this map, why are we to believe that the guy who only has two wins now, when romney and santorum have so many is going to be the guy who's winning at the end. if speaker gingrich is going to have this end game that includes new jersey, texas and california, it's plausible. however, he needs to start however he needs to start winning in illinois, wisconsin and places in the middle to have any credible argue that he will have the guy closing strong at the end. >> john, i would just point out that after we leave louisiana, we go to the district of columbia, where senate santorum is not even on the ballot. >> that's true. >> so don't forget those kind of things, those operational issues early in the process take their toll when you don't fill slates or don't get on the ballot. >> randy evans, appreciate you being on. john king as well. we're on facebook, google plus, follow me on twitter, i'm tweeting tonight. up next, a 360 exclusive. you won't see this report anywhere else. another outrage in the pardons of these killers in mississippi. now, we're learning about preferential treatment that two of these killers got, even before they were set free by the then outgoing governor, haley barbour. what does the governor have to say about it? we're keeping them honest. later, a teenager shot dead in florida in a gated community. an african-american teen. new details coming to light about the neighborhood watch captain who shot him and questions about whether florida' self-defense law is a license to kill. first let's check in with isha. as the violence goes on we are getting a new window in to one of the worst episodes. new video taken during the brutal siege of homs. if you ever had any doubts about what the syrian people are up against, you won't when you see our exclusive report. that and much more when 360 continues. we want to protect the house. right. but... home security systems can be really expensive. to save money, we actually just adopted a rescue panther. i think i'm goin-... shhh! we find that we don't need to sleep that much. there's an easier way to save. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. 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[whoosh, clang] you need lifelock, the only identity theft protection company that now monitors bank accounts for takeover fraud. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. we're talking about mississippi governor haley barbour's decision to pardon about 200 criminals as he was leaving office, including these convicted killers who worked as servants at the governor's mansion. tonight some stunning new details about the favors that two of these killers received from state officials before they were even set free. as one state lawmaker put it, treating killers like kings. we've been telling you about the governor's factually challenged defense of why he let these men go. his refusal to answer questions about it, his broken promise to talk once the state supreme court ruled, which it did last thursday. we haven't stopped digging, though, because as you'll see in a moment there are victims and families living in fear right now because of his decision, a decision the former governor is now ducking accountability for. here's how he defended it in a statement put out by his office on the day of the supreme court ruling. quote, these were decisions based on repentance, rehabilitation and redemption leading to forgiveness and the right defined and given by the state constitution to the governor to offer such people a second chance. now, in the single appearance he did make on cnn weeks ago on john king's show before this turned toxic for him, he also tried to make the case that these killers were somehow uniquely safe to set free. listen. >> for decades, our governor's mansion has been served primarily by inmates from the state penal system. almost all murderers because the experts say people who committed one crime of passion in their life, after they have served 20 years, and these have served on average 20 years, are the least likely to ever commit another crime. >> keeping him honest. as the experts who came on our program pointed out repeatedly, people kill on impulse who commit so-called crimes of passion in the heat of the moment, they are no less likely to kill again than anyone else. in any case, you would be hard pressed to describe what some of these killers did as crimes of passion as all. for instance, joseph, this man, stuck up a convenience store. he shot the clerk three times on the way in the door and then twice more before leaving the scene. it wasn't a crime of passion. after arguing with his wife, anthony mccray, this man, left the scene. then later returned with a gun and shot her in the back. not exactly heat of the moment. neither is this, david gatlin. he stalked his estranged wife tammy ellis gatlin for weeks before striking he shot and killed her while she held her baby in her arms. their baby. he badly wounded her friend, randy walker. ever since we began bringing these facts to light, we've been asking the governor to come on the program and speak to the issue. our correspondents have sought him out for comment. here's how that worked out. >> how are you doing? >> can we talk to you real quick? >> let me get my instructions first. >> governor haley barbour who has refused a request to come on the program. we would love for you to answer some questions. >> governor, can you talk to us about the pardons? >> i've got business right here. >> we'll wait for you. >> again, an open invitation stands for the governor to come to this program. >> can you talk to us for a second? >> despite repeated requests he will not come on the program. we've tried multiple, multiple times. >> can we get a few minutes to talk about the pardons with you? >> when the supreme court rules, it will be the time to talk. i'm not so presumptuous as to predict what the supreme court is going to do. but when they rule, then we can talk. >> well, and as we said, once again today, the former governor's office declined our invitation to come on the program saying he'll be traveling for at least the rest of the month. with or without mr. barbour's help, ed lavandera has come up with striking new details you won't see anywhere else. >> reporter: just days before these two mississippi killers were pardoned by haley barbour, cnn has learned david gatlin and charles hooker were issued brand new driver's licenses, even though they were technically incarcerated working as trustees at the governor's mansion, which begs the question, how do two inmates get driver's licenses while they're still in custody of the prison system? well, haley barbour's chief security officer says he drove them to the driver's license office himself. he knew both would be pardoned and he hoped having licenses would help them find jobs. we asked him if he thought this was unusually favorable treatment for an inmate to get and he told us it probably would be. he said that governor barbour did not direct him to do this and it's also legal. mississippi department of public safety says the inmates can acquire and renew licenses while still in prison. >> it angers me. >> reporter: randy walker was shot in the head by pardoned prison trustee david gatlin. walker is furious the man who shot him would get so much preferential treatment. >> that's just mind blowing. where is enough, enough? it should be enough they gave a convicted killer his life back. >> reporter: barbour's security chief suggests the licenses would help them find jobs, but why else would either of these men need a driver's license? to drive their newly purchased cars, of course. cnn has obtained these investigator' reports from the mississippi attorney general's office which detail how gatlin and hooker also had cars ready for them the day they were pardoned. according to the report, haley barbour's wife called a salesman at this car dealership. it says marsha barbour contacted him regarding the purchase of vehicles for hooker and gatlin. he told investigators that the inmates had been brought to the dealership on january 6, 2012, in a black ford crown victoria to complete paperwork for the sale. january 6 is the very day their pardons were signed but two days before the men were officially released. the salesman also stated that he delivered both vehicles to the governor's mansion. we asked governor barbour about it and he refused to answer directly, but the governor's spokeswoman told cnn in an e-mail that our questions regarding the driver's licenses, the purchase of the cars and the role of his wife were, quote, based on assumptions of fact which simply are not true. the mississippi department of public safety tells cnn to our knowledge no policies were broken, but a democratic state representative who oversees the department of public safety calls the preferential treatment appalling. >> not only just to turn these folks loose, but to give them -- treat them like kings essentially. and i think it's -- you know, it's just -- it's way out of bounds. it's outside the bounds of common decency and what we expect of our government. >> reporter: so who paid for the cars? the short answer, no one is saying. according to the report, hooker told investigators his son helped him buy the car and made the first three payments on his 2007 ford focus. david gatlin got a 2009 chevy hhr. according to the in

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