opposite side of the table from japanese, from american commanders, and he would often feel as if there was a sense of power dynamic between the people in uniform, the members of the military leadership and civilians, and frankly particularly democrats. he felt that he would often find himself in the position of being pushed around by generals, and it bothered him. he thought they pushed barack obama around and he didn't like that idea that they were able in a sense to prevail in those debates because they were the people in the room with military experience, so it's been a long time coming, jake. in a way this is the thing that he's wanted to do for a long time is to assert that civilian leadership. he's in a position to make an independent judgment. couldn't do it ultimately as vice president. he could do it as president. >> i've heard it described that biden and trump like in terms of their different views of their responsibilities, both of them view the presidency as being about primarily america and americans and it less so about