Transcripts For CNN The Inventor Out for Blood in Silicon Valley 20240706

Mm hmm. Great opportunity and asking so many people so many questions about things ranging from the future to kind of advice, and we thought wed ask a few questions that run a little bit of a gamut really quickly. Were also gonna be looking to the letter we thought would be addressing to ask you in the year 2025. Whats the thing . Youre most certain about . More people will have access to their own health information. What do you dream for something in 2025. The less people have to say goodbye to soon to people they love. Thats great. Um, can you tell us a secret . I dont have many secrets. Are you a scientist or a technologist . Or an entrepreneur coming entrepreneur. I was trained as an engineer. But now my time is spent on doing whatever it takes to realize this mission. Their nose is the integration of the words therapy. And diagnosis. And if we can shift toward a model in which were determining the onset of disease in time for therapy to be effective, we will change outcomes. You founded this company 12 years ago, right . Tell him how old you were. I was 19. It was never sort of a plan to drop out of stanford. But i found what i loved. I found what i wanted to spend my life doing. Elizabeth has raised more than 400 million. The company is valued at 9 billion you own over 50 of it, right. Congratulations on that. Youve got an Incredible Opportunity to try to hold a legacy and Silicon Valley or changing the world and we like to think about it as a movie, and you can begin to see that story in a better way. We see a world in which every person has access. Actionable health information. At the time it matters. A world in which no one ever has to say. If only id known sooner. A world in which no one ever has to say goodbye. Too soon. This future. Is beginning now. Nestled in the foothills above Silicon Valley. There is a 700 acre plot of land called the Stanford Research park. According to the website. Its a community of and for people who seek to invent the future. From here came elements of the microwave to the Mainframe Computer and the International Space station. Steve jobs spent time here. So did Mark Zuckerberg and elon musk. Elizabeth holmes saw herself in their company. So in the fall of 2014, she moved her Biotech Startup Theranos to the research park. The company employed 800 people and was valued at nearly 10 billion. Four years later, it was worth less than zero. To understand what happened. It pays to look past the price of the stock to the value of the story. This compelling tale of Dividing Hundreds of diseases from a drop of blood was a testament to the imagination of the inventor. In the deserted property she designed. You can almost hear the echoes of her ambition. And see how glass walls promising transparency could become elaborate of mirrors. Was elizabeth lost in a landscape between what she could make real and the world of make believe. For me. This was a story of how people get trapped over time with trading off human values, and then the way that they traded off those values change them, as is people and things go down, so part of it was trying to understand. Um and i think this is part of the story is the journey of elizabeth. Some people take a path trying to do positive things for the world, right . Theres no Nobody Questions that her motives were positive, but end up being something, but how do we react to this . You can look at her at the end. And say, how could she do this . But i think that would miss the point. If you dont understand the journey. If you look at her from the beginning, it will be a cautionary tale about all of us. I grew up Spending Summers and the holidays. With my uncle. I remember how much he loved the beach. Remember how much i loved him. He was diagnosed one day with skin cancer. Which all of a sudden was brain cancer. And in his bonds. He didnt live to see his son grow up. And i never got to say goodbye. The rate to protect the health and well being. Of every person. Of those we love. Is a basic human right . Over the course of the last 11 years weve made it possible. To run comprehensive Laboratory Tests from a few drops of blood. They could be taken. From a finger. And weve made it possible. To eliminate the tubes and tubes of blood. That traditionally have to be drawn from an arm. And replaced it. With the nana tainer. And if i had one wish standing here with all of you. It would be that no one has to go through the pain. Of traditional sabata me. I was always absolutely terrified of giving blood. The only thing in my life ive ever been scared of. If we were to sit here and dream up torture experiments psychologically, the concept of sticking large needles. Over and over into someone and draining out so much blood while theyre watching this blood being sucked out of them. That you basically completely debilitated them. That qualifies as a pretty good torture experiment in my book. I find it quite disturbing. This technician is preparing the Blood Samples for a white cell count. She dilutes the blood with a special fluid. And put the measured amount into a pipette. Since really the clinical Lab Infrastructure began to develop. Weve had this highly centralized, very big analytical instruments, which require that much blood and therefore people have had to take tubes and tubes every time they do a blood drop. So Laboratory Testing hasnt changed since the 19 fifties. Its the closest thing to Mainframe Computers versus its not even pcs versus Mobile Phones that that ive ever seen right . So the timing is very ripe to change this paradigm. Theres no shortcut to really hard work. And we learned so much more from our failures than we did from our successes. We code named our product the edison because we assumed wed have to fail 10,000 times to get it to work, 10,000 and first and we did. What does it mean to invent something . It could be an act of creation. Or an act of deception. The worlds greatest inventor, did both think of Thomas Edison as the inventor of the phonograph, the Electric Light Bulb and the way we look at the world. Innocence company made one of the first Motion Picture cameras and the very first commercial movie blacksmithing scene. His company produced over 1200 films, Documentaries And Fiction Films , including the first screen kiss. Edisons greatest invention may have been himself first celebrity businessman edisons secret was knowing how to tell a good story in which he cast himself as the main character. The wizard of menlo park, a man who could conjure anything in his laboratory. He had his name on over 2000 patents from telegraphs to vacuum pumps to electric cars. But he often promised far more than he could deliver. In 18 78 , the new york sun printed claimed by edison that he had solved the mystery of the incandescent light bulb. But it wasnt true. His filaments kept melting when reporters and investors asked for demonstrations. He fixed them. To keep journalists sympathetic. He gave them stock in his company. For four years. He pretended his invention was good to go, even while he scrambled to make it work, then just before his money and credit ran out. He solved the problem of how to keep the lights on. He was the first to practice the Silicon Valley art. Fake it till you make it. More than 100 years after edisons first movies. Elizabeth holmes modeled her own ambitious career after the Great American inventor. With a Magical Machine named after the man himself. It was obviously such a incredible story, the 19 year old dropout, a woman creating this 9 billion innovative company. And went out there for four days, three interviewing her and one interviewing some other people working on when she was talking about some subject other than diagnostic testing. She was very unprepossessing, very ingenuous when she began to talk about the mission, or they, you know her business. Then there was a shift and she became very, very focused, very intense, firm control of all the facts. No question. Surprised her, um very impressive and very idealistic. We were the first to put on the cover and write a major story about this amazing woman. Next to me, this ceo is out for blood. This is elizabeth, second public. Live interview fortunate invited her to the most powerful womens conference, even though she wasnt the head of a fortune 500 company. And she was saying to us. Im the only one of these people that founded a company. You know, theyre ceo s. Yeah but i founded this company. I invented what this company is about. I deserve to be here. Ill talk with people. Sometimes theyll say, oh, you know, i want to start a business and my question is always why . Because theres got to be a mission. I had heard about theranos and Elizabeth Holmes, Woman Executive in the male dominated Silicon Valley, where were starting a company with some real potential social good lot about disruption. And theranos was aimed to be a disruptor of the established ways of doing things the established inefficient and expensive ways of doing things and she was going to herald a revolution in medical treatment in this country. Yeah. The lab industry needed disrupting it was dominated by two companies quest and labcorp. Between them, they control almost 80 of the market. Blood test prices were always high and never transparent. They were sued for overcharging medicaid and medicare for billions of dollars , but the size of their operations, including the ability to do over 1000 different blood tests made them difficult to challenge. Until Elizabeth Holmes and edison. She had built a staff of 700 people. I went out to look at the newark , california facility, which was extraordinary. You know her stories so compelling. I mean, if you think about it, you go in and you see this woman lives in a department. Basically she called her apartment a mattress. The only thing the refrigerator was bottled water at all the meals at the office. She slept four hours a day. She worked in the office till midnight or thereabouts. Yes. Do you date . I dont. I dont. Im married to theranos. That was, thats literally her words. What she said to me, and i believed it. You were black outfits a lot. Why because in line with the designing my life to be able to give every bit of energy i have to this closet that has a very large number of the exact same set of clothes and every single day with the same thing on and i dont have to think about it. Jab used to say that too. Steward jeans. She was, obviously you know, steve jobs was her hero, and i just felt oh, well, shes a young person, you know, ill give them their little hero worship thing, you know . Im a tremendous admirer of what jobs did. I think he was a genius. I do have to disclose that ive been in black turtlenecks since i was seven. Mm hmm. Chasing Business Premier card is made for people like sam who make everyday products design smarter, like a smart coffee grinder. Fresh beans for you, genius for more breakthroughs like that Breakthrough Card like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5000, or more unlimited 2 cash back on all other purchases and with greater Spending Potential, making smart ideas, brilliant reality. Business card from Chase For Business make more of whats yours. Dinner. What is like this may start at age nine vaccination, a type of Cancer Prevention against certain hpv related cancers can start then to most people. Hpv clears on its own, but for others, it can cause certain cancers later in life. Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next starting at age nine. Talk to your childs doctor about hpv vaccination. 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This wont do well at auction, but at a t and t its worth a brand new Samsung Galaxy s 23. Really what about this deal is bad. Everyone gets a free new Samsung Galaxy s 23 with the galaxy phone training any year, any condition . Introducing pro allergy now available without a prescription was the first and only 24 hours. Steroid free. Sprint phones takes hours starts working in 30 minutes so you can go. Closed captioning is brought to you by skechers max cushioning. With skechers max. Cushioning you get more includes maximum Ultra Go Cushioning and skechers air cooled Yoga Mat Insoles get more with the skechers, max cushion and collection. I want to talk for just a minute about what it means to be in this company right now. I was sitting yesterday with the president of brazil for lunch, and this woman had invited me and eric smith from google and Mark Zuckerberg and the airbnb guys and the uber guys and a bunch of other people, and she sits down at the table with all these people. And we all have the headphones on translators. And she says the strategic priority of brazil is to get access to low cost diagnostics that can facilitate Early Detection and prevention. And were all kind of sitting there and you can see like all the other ceos faces being like no wanting to be the ones in the spotlight. And she kept on doing this for, like an hour and a half. And so, of course im trying to be humble, but, um, when i first met her, i thought she was really interesting. It was. It was hard to really get a sense of who she was. But in a in a way, i felt i idolized her in so many ways based on like the little that i had read your husband. For being a woman in the sciences being a woman in tech. The fact that she started her own company that really got me excited. You know, she was a really good idle to have so much in a sense, i was super naive and like almost drank the kool aid like a little too quickly. And was just more enthusiastic to be a part of the team. You all are part of something that is a revolution and youre part of something that is going to change our world. What what higher purpose is there in life than to be able to be doing that . When i went down and interview elizabeth was there and i was a little surprised, considering i would be the low man on the totem pole. I found out later there was no one that got past her in order to get hired. Um i know this sounds odd, but my First Impression was that she didnt blink. And so i always wanted to make sure that i kept great eye contact because i didnt want to be the one that look over, right . Uh, so she was very intense. Comparing it to the other interviews that i had with other Tech Companies in the bay area. It was different. You know, they didnt tell me nearly as much about what they were doing. She never blanked during the interview. She did tell me about just the one drop of blood and you know, its medical testing company. Um they didnt say anything about how it worked, or you know what the technology was. They just said, you know, youll be working with consumables, which was kind of vague. How did they describe the project . They didnt. You know what youre signing on for . I had a very vague idea. I didnt thats actually not that untypical in startup environments. They want to keep what theyre doing secret. The response of the major Lab Companies was to say, well, we dont know how theyre doing with and its so great. Why dont they show . Theres too much secrecy is what they say thats exactly what they said. And you know, our position on that is first of all. We dont think that we need to explain ourselves to competitive companies. What were working to do is to invent an integrated solution where every person gets access to this wealth of information. From tiny droplets of blood and then see how they change over time. She talked some about currently you get a blood test, maybe once a year, and so you get a snapshot of whats going on if you were to start doing it every month, say you would get a movie. You have multiple frames from them. And you can begin to see the context of projecting where someone youre seeing changes in Laboratory Data over time and understand. The clinical significance of that data can be used in a more meaningful way. It was personalized medicine. Maybe you could catch something very early. You know, you can catch an early cancer or you could get. You know when there was still time. This was sort of the vast patient. So the idea with the addison was to stick the lab inside the box. Because it incorporates so many different disciplines. Its hard to pull this off. Theres always different components that go into the machine. Theres a center fuse. Theres a, um a little thing the samples go into theres a wave, too. Prick the blood. All these things were prototypes, right . The first thing i did. The first thing is you look at what the chemists are doing right . Because youre automating what somebody is already doing. Youre not inventing something totally new. Im going to have to have a kind of dance. Lets say right, you have to have this thing go to the place. Pick up something drop off something makes something etcetera. The idea was the pipette poked holes into these little plastic containers with three agents in them. It mixes some of the re agents with blood. My group is responsible for developing about 60 different tests and trying to get those to work. The edisons trick was how do you make it dependable . And how do you incorporate it into a bigger process that involves is 50 millimeters samples . It was a complex device. You know a lot of moving parts and complicated system. Its not easy to do all this stuff, so it was i figured wed get there. We felt we were on the path to be able to make machines that could do this. Elizabeth no ones on the record unless you tell me not let me begin. When you think about yourself as a child, multiple interviews with her, but one of them was to go to a Chinese Restaurant in palo alto, and it was really good food. I have the blessing of being able to figure out what i think you wanted to do. You really think that i was very interested in the concept of creating things must have been like seven and i had no point is it complete design for a time machine . He was a very detailed, drying all the functionality in terms of the interface. I got really interested in the idea of creating and building something, but ultimately it became clear to me that the vehicle of the business provides the greatest tool for being able to affect change. I was very studious. I never really watched tv. Is i went through school and went through high school. My best friends were were books. I got into moby dick and nearly had the odyssey at a pretty young age. Understanding how great people and great leaders led groups of people. So much changes in our society technologically, but as humans. We dont change a lot, you know . This is a high tech atmosphere around stanford. Internet startups to biotech and medicine. I started on the faculty here in 1984. Im currently a tenured professor. And i was on boards of companies, many private and public companies, and i started a couple of companies, so i tend to be sought out by kids who have an interest in business and people have made fortunes, students, young people. Turn into multimillionaires makes for an odd morality. When i was at stanford, i started to spend all my time thinking about how you can build something that would change. What we know in terms of Early Detection and prevention. I failed my first patents. One day elizabeth came to me, and she described her idea. She wanted to incorporate Micro Phonetics and nanotechnology into a patch. Where you can sample the blood. And detect an infection. And then in that point, deliver antibiotics to it. Well, you cant do that. Its impossible. Physically antibiotics are not potent. You cannot do that. The reason you have a big i v bag. Okay, so i said i elizabeth. Thats fun, but i dont think thats going to work. She was a 19 year old. She never thought she had any limits. She was going to conquer the world. She came back twice, i think and i just really try to help students, but i just felt like i cant help you. Youre not listening, but ill help you find someone else to talk to. This used to be my advisors office. We got in. The very first time i met her. It was very clear she was unusual. Ive taught thousands of students, probably Tens Of Thousands of students at stanford. And i knew right away. But i was dealing with something very, very different. Chani robinson, the head of the Science Department at stanford, leaves his Tenure Position to work for her. Just thought that this woman was something special, you know, gazing into her eyes and realizing that he was. Talking to the next steve jobs or bill gaines. There were some other names mentioned during the course of our conversation like archimedes. Actually originally did not intend to drop out of stanford, but i wasnt going to any classes and so then, logistically it just seemed like a wisdom money. The question was as an 18 year old. How do you go about the process of convincing people that you know what youre doing, and that you can pull it off . I think the first pieces realizing that its not necessarily about age, and im people like steve jobs and bill gates and the google guys, and michael dell and Larry Ellison and others have demonstrated that do you have to have the conviction in yourself to be able to make something happen . Because ultimately its up to you. You know, i dont think i would want to create a society where people were not overconfident. In what they could achieve, like, you know who would open the restaurant . If that was, if that was the case, or who would who would do a startup . But i think this is really the issue is to say, how do you become a person of vision . On one hand. And how do you sell that vision . On the other hand, but you also want to stay. Not realistic, but you know, a little closer to realistic. When the task needs it by your own. Most knows the first step to motivation. Inspiration so weve got new everything. New flooring new paint new patio sets. New pillows can keep going. If you want me to. You got this. We got you. Okay everyone. Our mission is complete. Balanced nutrition together, we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle bone and heart health, 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 g of protein. Meet the future chef, a designer and engineer, all learning to save and spend their money with chase chefs cooking up first with her new debit card, huh . 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Cant argue with that. Analysis try subways tasting menu upgrade yet . Good morning, everyone we do begin get the permanent solution to hair loss protected by the bosley guarantee. Im Phil Mattingly at the white house, and this is cnn. Incorporate the company before what happened in the intervening nine years work during that period of time was for Pharmaceutical Companies and for developing applications for the military. But that model is going to evolve now because were added another Inflection Point in our life cycle, thinking that might be oh, word. But we really believe that theres value in being a private company. Its allowed us to not have to talk about you know what were doing until its done and introduce you know, incredible innovation without using just her story as the blueprint for Success Homes would convince private investors to put up hundreds of millions of dollars without ever looking at audited financial statements. We like to think that investing is a rational equation. Careful Balance Sheet of risk and reward. But in fact investors, particularly ones who come in early, are often guided by their gut. Instead of relying on facts. Early investing can be more like a wing and a prayer. The word credit comes from the latin word credo. Which means i believe some of the early believers included a former head of software at apple evita bainian. Oracle founder Larry Ellison and a founding investor of oracle. Don lucas. They conferred respectability on elizabeth, even though they had no record to go on. Just a vague belief that business and medicine were in her blood. I think she probably was 21 years old had no background in business, but her great grandfather was an entrepreneur. So thats entrepreneurs side, but she was in the medical site turns out later the hospital in there where they lived his named after her great uncle who was involved mezza, so she came by both of these the two things are necessary. One medicine and the other entrepreneur. Pipe naturally. I remember the day elizabeth came in. Full of vim and vigor and said, im dropping out of stanford and i knew her parents and i knew her and her brother as they were growing up. She was a good friend of my daughters. I said, do your parents know youre dropping out of stanford . She said, yes. Yes and they agree, and its a great thing, and i learned at stanford how this whole Healthcare Thing is working, and its just not and then she said, im going to change healthcare as we know it. I was all over it. I thought that was a great opportunity. I mean, elizabeth was a family friend. Youve known her since she was a little girl did that go into your thinking in terms of your initial investment . No, weve been ive been in the vent Venture Business a long time. It was the First Investor in tesla First Investor in skype, First Investor in baidu, First Investor in hotmail. I always invest early invest when i see the vision. I see the opportunity and i see the person who i think can make it there. I mean, we invest in, you know. A girl and a dog or two guys and a cat with we just say, is this person going to dedicate their life and make something extraordinary happened . And yes , in that case, she was that person. So the reality is that data just doesnt sit in our mind. As much as stories do. Its almost like glue, the glue that takes all of the data. And even more important stories have emotions. That data doesnt and emotions get people to do all kinds of things good, good and bad. And if you think about the people who invested in her with very little amount of data. Its about having an emotional appeal about having trust and believing the story and being moved by this and being able to tell themselves the story. For 10 years. We did this work. We didnt have a website. We never put out a Press Release. It was completely heads down. When we got to a point in which we realized that what we were doing could serve individuals. I wanted to find the people who were just strategically brilliant. General mattis, who was former sandakan commander is one of our Board Members. Dick of a ceviche, who was the former ceo of wells fargo is another. Sam nunn has done some incredible work on Nuclear Threats as well as bio threats. Bill perry, former Secretary Of Defense henry kissinger, former secretary of state and george schultz. Who is secretary of state and labor and the secretary treasury. About three years ago, i looked at her and i said, well, about to have a meeting with a friend of my granddaughter. As soon as she started talking. I did a double take. I first met elizabeth and my grandfathers living room, so he had called me up and said that he was going to have some brilliant woman over to have a discussion. He thought that i would be interested in coming, so i went to his house is me. My grandfather elizabeth and Dianne Feinstein was there as well. Elizabeth kind of pitched her dream of changing the way diagnostics is done. Really revolutionizing the field . Yeah, i was totally gung ho about theranos. I was really excited about what she was talking about. I really wanted to know what the technology was. Um and i actually asked her in that meeting. If i could intern there over the summer, i said, do you do you guys take interns like i want to work on this . This sounds amazing. We think that theres going to be a revolution in preventive medicine. I mean, he had a really close relationship with elizabeth. She was almost like becoming part of the family. You know she was coming to her Birthday Parties and christmas is we think this is one of the most optimistic things out there about the Health Care System and its cost. Thats problems. Elizabeth talked to George Shultz. Hes a very impressive man. And i was impressed that he adopted her like a daughter really believed in her outside. Or youre thinking is wow, what a board right i mean, its just impressive and they were really and i talked to most of them. They were impressed with really impressed with her. General mattis. I assume were on the record unless you tell me not shut up the recorder, but okay, when you think of elizabeth, what are the first words that come to your mind . First as integrity, competence. And competences, both technical scientific but also focus on human rights and the most classical sense of what human rights are about. And all of a sudden you have the ability to know if someone is ill or not, i mean, literally within minutes of taken, you know, a drop of blood. I mean, she is really a revolutionary in the truest sense. It was quite amazing to spend time with these people. They were talking about her as if she were beethoven. As if she was as rare creature that maybe one in a century or two in a century. Come along. Who really can change the world. I remember when i interviewed henry kissinger. I didnt trust him a medical stuff not to mention on cambodia, but but when i asked him about her, he described let me see, but i can put this on speakerphone. Then be view for me, okay . Yeah but i dont know how to do that. You put it on. How about it now . I hear you loud and clear. You okay . Perfect impression of how she runs the board. You have to remember. She has just sort of merial call, is it its like a member of the monastic order. Im told. You once said that these Board Meetings which go on all day to this location, Board Meetings, human rights violators. You know, whatever you think of henry kissinger. Hes met a lot of leaders. Hes met a lot of world leaders. He let a lot of corporate leaders. I thought he might be a judge. But the truth is that none of these people were really in a position. To know what judge no shouldnt really want scientific input from what i could determine. Engineering bit more because she was inventing it and engineering device, but not madison. She aligned herself with very powerful older men who seem to succumb to a certain charm. And those powerful men could influence people and the government. Influence the department of defense. When i asked her was this all about getting Government Contracts . She danced around my questions about that. Everything that were doing may go into certain work we do for the military, which we really couldnt put on the record off the record. We were doing some work for the military, which we can talk about off the record. Is that where would that be off . Generally, our philosophy on these things is talk about it if theres a purpose to talking about it, and theyre just so could you say anything about the military contracts you have. I mean, know what when you have, im gonna make you feel guilty. At some point you already have at it. In conversations, elizabeth suggested that she had contracts with the military in a mock up of marketing materials. Theranos invented a quote from General Mattis about a battle plan to use medicines on Wounded Soldiers in combat zones. But this never happened. Before permitting theranos to use the machines on soldiers. Pentagon officials wanted to run their own tests. But elizabeth declined. She had a policy of controlling demonstrations and tightly guarding access to the edison prototypes. I press them repeatedly, and i wasnt allowed them. Finally i kept my persisted in asking. I need to see the machine and she said to me i will let you see the machine. But you have to agree not to describe the machine. It was downstairs. Very you couldnt see from all the glass offices. The lab is a Large Library of fee in place, bustling with chemists and technicians and housing rows of machines each easy for a Single Person to lift in which the container of blood is placed. What exactly happens in the machine is treated as a state secret and holmess description of the process was comically vague. A chemistry is performed. A Chemical Reaction occurs and generates a signal. From that Chemical Interaction with the sample. Which is then translated into a result, which is then reviewed by Certified Laboratory personnel. And quote. She added that thanks to quote. And associated automation that were able to. Handle these. Tiny samples. 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For more breakthroughs like that Breakthrough Card like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5000, or more limited to percent cash back on all other purchases and with greater Spending Potential making smart ideas, brilliant reality. Business premier card from Chase For Business make more of whats yours. Im going to make history as the first president to live tweet. There we go start a career building Certificate Program today on coursera for free at coursera dot org. Coursera learn without limits. The whole story with Anderson Cooper tomorrow at eight on cnn. Alright, so comments sunny. So i just want to expand a little bit. On comment. Elizabeth made you know, we are very conservative company because we think that you should get things done before you talk about them. Right and thats the culture we have created. So i just want all of you to remember that when we come to work every day that we carry the sense of mission in your hearts every single day because he was very successful in the late nineties with a tech company that sold for a lot of money, kind of like mark cuban character, potentially to me in some ways where he was at the right place at the right time made out of money. His expertise was software and it is doing is it really, really difficult because were going against an entire system that doesnt believe that prevention is possible . I always felt like sonny was making a deal, you know . He knew the technology but just enough to sell it. To him. This was another home run that he was going to hit. He was 49. She was 30. But she was a dominant figure in that relationship, and when he talker in a very deferential way that she was kind of a genius about elizabeth. He was really reverential. Elizabeth is the most important inventor of our times. I think sunny saw her as this iconic figure that you know he could never be. And so he, i think found this vehicle for him to advance himself in her and you know she was on board for it, too. She lived with him at some condo in palo alto. I thought that there was definitely something going on behind the scenes there. They certainly would leave together and they come in a similar time. Theyre always talking to each other, Offline Online in meetings outside of meetings, they were very close. It wasnt uncommon for elizabeth and sunny to go to the Silicon Valley airport. You know, go after some meeting. They were gonna go sell this thing. Go make a deal. Without disclosing their romantic relationship to investors. Elizabeth and sunny flew off together to corporate presentations touting the potential of the edison prototypes. Because one company walgreens love the pitch. In this 2010 power point showcased an early version of edison. Portable Blood Testing Machine that could be deployed in pharmacies all over the world. Theranos boasted the device could eliminate the need for a lab. By doing up to 200 tests in minutes from a Fingerprint Drop of capillary blood. It wasnt true. Then once walgreens signed a contract to struggle to make a true constantly changing the machines, color shape and mechanics strangely, walgreens never look inside any version of the magic box. To see if it could deliver with theranos promised. There is a great Martin Luther king quote. Take the first step in faith. You dont have to see the whole staircase. Just take the first step right . And this is this is the first step um so talk to me a little bit about the edison machine. How would you say it was working in terms of the vision versus the reality . Ah poorly. We couldnt regulate temperature very well. We couldnt reproducible transfer fluids. We had all sorts of design changes constantly that we were trying to fight against. So it was a Comedy Of Errors in a lot of ways. The Original Concept was to make a machine that at least in the chemist could work on to further develop chemistry. Over time. We were able to run a sequence and we were able to get results now getting results means you know, i get a signal proportional to what im putting in. It doesnt mean its ready for primetime, right . Youre handling a lot of fluid in the machine. Things got blood spilled all over them and got. Some of the donors that we had were, you know, just people off the street to need money. And i imagine that you know, there probably was a fair amount of hepatitis and things like that the device would freeze up in the middle of running a test and then i would have to reach in there with my hands. There are needles within the device that could puncture skin and theres three agents and blood and everything spilling all over the place. Blood thats just sitting there in the bottom of the vessel evaporating into the air in the room. It was a mess inside. Pieces of the device would literally fall off in the middle of Testing Centrifuges exploding inside of it and things like that. Obviously they didnt want anybody to actually see what was going on in there. So when we had demos, they would bring investors executives from some company to a room which would have different styles of edison. They were prototyping. They would do a finger. Stick on the executive. Take a Finger Stick Blood. They will put the blood into the cartridge. And then they put the cartridge into this medicine. Hmm then executives out of the room to go give them a tour to go have a meeting or go have lunch or whatever, and immediately afterwards an engineer would run in. Grab the cartridge and bring it out to the lab where my team would do the essays at the bench. Were on call so this could be done in an hour. We got reasonable data every time and then we would get those results. Engineer run into the room with the results, and these guys will come back in and they say, well, heres your results from running our tests. We have listed on the webpage like 200 different assays that we had no more than half of those actually validated to be working. Even in the lab. At that point, let alone all the edisons. Because its trying to do multiple analysis. You need so much hardware inside the machine. It was totally impractical. They were very adamant about the machine being this big. Its got to be this big. And i said we cant do that. Like the Laws Of Physics just are not going to permit us to cram all the stuff that weve decided needs to go in there into this little box in the box be bigger, you know, and a common response. Their nose was something on the lines that well, maybe youre not a maybe youre not a Silicon Valley person. You should go to work for some other company. If you dont you dont believe in the vision of the product. And what would start off as a very serious Brainstorming Meeting would turn into a two hour conversation about the name of the cloud thats going to process the information. Its like time out. How big does this box need to be to abide by the laws of thermodynamics and actually function and save peoples lives . Maybe thats more important than the name of the cloud. The processes information which i think ended up being yoda or something. Was it yoga . So whats your favorite sound from the Movie Star Wars . Yoda. What is it would sound like. Youre the sounds like do or do not. There is no try. You cant just kind of bend your way around the Laws Of Physics. Yeah you cant just have a great Marketing Campaign and then get around these things. Signing an elizabeth. They didnt care that we figure out whats not working or make sure that we can actually solve these problems in a real way. They always seem to think that everything could happen very fast. And if you said no. Then they just went around to find the next person who would say yes. And generally , they tended to start become younger and less experienced. Right were going to disrupt. We dont want people who are stuck in the old ways of actually validating experiments and you know, doing things properly with documentation. One of those people who wanted things done properly in gibbons. The first experienced scientists hired by theranos. He was an expert in Blood Testing and had done much of the work on the companys key patterns to which elizabeth had attached her name. Ian was a cambridge, phd. He knew things the rest of us didnt know. He would work with some of the younger chemists and scientists and help them with their experiments, something the design their experiments happen to analyze their data interpret their data, etcetera. He was just a wealth of knowledge and it was you know, at the time it kind of evolved. You know him for two years and my kind of opinion of him evolved only just to be better because he was just trying to make the best of the situation like you know what . I got to see that i got to see how marginalized he was. Its not about 2012. Ian didnt have an office anymore. I think he felt slighted by that. He wasnt involved with decision making. He would look at data and he said things were not working. Ian really got into bad shape with sonny, both sunny and elizabeth, because theres so many things wrong with that technology. And isnt that the point of someone like that being there to tell him . Why it wasnt gonna work in early 2013 theranos tried to prevent ian from having to testify in a patent lawsuit. If he were to give evidence that elizabeth wasnt the inventor. She claimed to be some of the companys patents might be invalidated. Is the date of his deposition approached heavily and fell into a deep depression, afraid that honesty might cost him his job. Sometime in 2013. He wasnt in work anymore. Elizabeth told him to stay at home because i guess he was saying things arent working. That was what the story i was told announced me if he thought he was going to be fired, and i told him, he asked unfortunately, and that was the night he killed himself. He was so distraught over this stupid, um inner this. Patent case misappropriation case and. Not knowing where what he was going to do with the rest of his life, and thats why he committed suicide. What was the reaction of the company after you and commit suicide . Um i dont know , because they never communicated with me. Except just asked me to send back his confidential. Stop. I brought back his documents that he had at home. And left him at the front desk. Did you ever hear from Elizabeth Holmes again . No. If today were my last day on this earth and i could say that the people have gone through hell in being able to just get the test done that they need to get care now. Dont ive done something in this world that has made it a little bit of a better place, right . Protected by patent and all of that we do have something to worry about. Obviously competitive business is always concerned about you know the Ideas Incorporated into products. You have to be on version 10 by the time anybody elses on version one, and thats thats what our whole business is about. So paranoid and you have to be, yeah. I want to be the most paranoid people on the planet. Absolutely. Starting a new chapter can be the most thrilling thing in the world. Theres an abundance of reasons to get started. How far we take an idea. Is a question of willpower. Because progress is a matter of character. After advil back to work. What about your neck . Get to go before advil. Advil dual action fights paying two ways. 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And thats what makes it matter the most when they find it. The exact thing that can change the world. Some say its what they were born to do. Its what they live to do. Trinet serves small and medium sized businesses. So they can do more of what matters. Benefits. Payroll. Compliance. Trinet. People matter. Pick a cleaner and enjoy a spotless house for 19. Good morning, everyone we do begin with Breaking News this morning. Closed captioning brought to you by invent help. Call 1 807 1. Oh oh oh, two. Oh, you have an invention idea, but dont know what to do. Next call invent help today they can help you get started with your idea. Call now. 807 100020. For last two years year and a half become under attack from outside, and its usually quest diagnostics. Their entire product strategies lies, build around getting people sick and then living off of their diseases, and we are trying to change that right. So its really important that you all understand that what we are doing here is so disruptive that we will always be attacked. The paranoia seems to come from the belief that like someones gonna beat us to it or someones gonna steal our ideas or were not going to get the whole market. Theres a healthy degree of paranoia and secrecy, but this was well beyond that. There was security. He couldnt go walk up into her office. That just doesnt happen. She had pulled her class on their exterior windows, bodyguards waiting outside. You know a couple of guys at the front lobby. And that increased more and more later on. Yeah her and sunny walking at the same time. Every morning eagle one eagle two on their way. And as soon as they start pulling in, okay, be ready. Have the doors open. Tuesday. Eagle one sunny was eagle two. Sunny supposedly tracked all the key card entries and exits so you would be identified each time you went into any area. We would send emails, not cc, sunny or elizabeth. And we would get a response back from sunny and i remember that was a very big Turning Point for me, whereas like you were being monitored. You are being watched. I found out that i was being keystroke. That means that anything that i typed was being watched internally. It seems kind of extreme for receptionist, doesnt it . Did that happen to you anywhere else . No. And, of course, Nondisclosure Agreements had to be signed giant stack of paperwork, saying you cant speak poorly about the company. Youre legally liable for any detriment caused to the company. Its like whos writing these contracts. And what are they trying to hide . Supposed to tell our families what we did . We werent supposed to talk about anything that went on inside of theranos. Then after a while, people became paranoid of one another, we became much more siloed walking down the hallway would say hi, and person would look at the ceiling or floor or anything to avoid contact and not acknowledge you back and then the next person the next person and you notice to behold groups that just wouldnt you were you were invisible to them. It was very hard to communicate information sometimes because there were so many blockades and silos and this emphasis on secrecy if the people from the Chemistry Team could talk about what was coming next from the engineering team. They were said. Well, thats not going to solve the problem. But since everyone was working on it separately. They could all keep working forever without actually solving anything. The mantra in Silicon Valley is like, move fast break things, and that is really dangerous when peoples lives are in the balance. Silicon valley is really good at making a web based email clients. Really great at making a chat app with emojis on it when you think about what this all in that but Silicon Valley is trying to do things where peoples lives are on the line trying to make Autonomous Vehicles are trying to make medical devices trying to do these things that if you dont do it, right. Quite frankly, people can die. You need to approach it with a different lens. The problem is that when youre developing the future, you dont know what the impact is going to be, because no one has seen this before. And the Testing Ground is often just the general public. In 2013 theranos went live testing real patients in arizona as part of a partnership with walgreens. It was a risky move. The Edison Machines had problems , and they were approved by regulators for in store testing. But theranos was running out of money and needed the walgreens feel to attract new investors. So elizabeth sold walgreens and a stopgap plan to launch the Wellness Centers without the edisons. Instead of Testing Blood on site. Patient samples will be sent to palo alto, where theranos had hastily constructed a clinical lab. Many of the technicians were an experienced when one lab director quit. Fairness replaced him with a dermatologist. Due in part to the walgreens launch was able to raise over 400 million from new Investors Family betsy devos, the owner of the new england patriots, and rupert murdoch, who put up 125 million. To investors in patients. It seemed like the system was working as advertised. The plan was launched in arizona as if its a nationwide campaign. And then take key markets and roll it out across the country. I wasnt an engineer wasnt a scientist. I wasnt in r and d. I was there to create consumer brand. We came up with three adjectives to describe your theranos simple human and optimistic. Because there are so many barriers to getting your blood drawn. Whether its fear of needles fear of finding out the results. Living far away. Cant afford it. Theres just a lot of barriers. You know people that have this fear or this gangster dont like it. Lets convert him so hired errol morris. Carol worked with apple did a lot of great work with album. And elizabeth was taken by that this could be potentially the apple of healthcare. Im a fan. Likewise. We did casting real people that have all these issues. We did also reach out to existing theranos customers and had several of them come and tell the real story and their experience with their. I thank you for coming in. Hey, mark. So as usual, i have no idea what questions to ask or where to start. I think well figure it out so many people that dont have insurance and cant afford insurance. Out of pocket. If youre trying to live a life, it gets in the way of it. And if i could receive this information without having to spend all this money along the way, that would be amazing 100 for a series of blood tests can be pretty stressful. Its expensive. Its ridiculous. Once they went live in arizona. Real patients supposed to an r and d. Thats right. Yes, then you begin to wonder like is it . I think here heres my context for this is back to jobs for a minute and all the people that said no to him, and he refused. No and did it anyway and proved everyone wrong. So my measure of success at that level visionary. His own company and creating products to change the world. He did not give up or give in ever. So that was my measure of success now on patients. Thats a whole other thing. In many states, patients arent allowed to order their own lab tests without a Prescription Doctors are supposed to provide guidance and oversight, but elizabeth lobbied the state of arizona to pass a law allowing patients to order lab tests without consulting doctors. Giving people the right to obtain a Laboratory Test will by definition. Begin the process of enabling them to engage in their health. His homes you are magnificent. And there isnt a question any of us could ever ask that you havent answered 20 or 30 times before. This law would allow you to order your own blood work and you get the results. This is what torontos puts out. Its a menu. You kind of order ala carte. But there are some cautions raised from the medical community. You cant just look at a lab. You have to look at the whole patient. The whole person. We cant write a prescription for somebody that we havent done a physical exam or have seen um so it kind of was like, how are we going to deal with this . Low cost was very interesting to the patients but then also being able to order their own labs, and they really like that. What made me concerned was as a physician. You can call the lab and ask simple questions. And these are questions that we would ask any lab but there are knows they werent very transparent. We tried to tell patients that listen, were not getting a lot of information about how they do their testing, and so were kind of unsure of them. But then there are no started giving out vouchers or gift cards to get labs free labs done there. And so it just kind of exploded. Mom we really are an apartment part of our family because. We really , um love you so much. Your health is really important to us. The kids i adore you. Its w there are no skiff cards because nothing is more important than the health of those you love. Good good, good feeling. Gotta shake it out. Im going harder than before. Let me run around the whole world from the bottom to the top of it and knock it out. Talk of the town. Youre feeling it now. Come on and move to the center. Keep it going. Keep it going. I got a good good, good Feeling Transitions under control. Because your lives are forever entwined with you over and over again. Love and twined exclusively at k. 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Learn more by visiting your local xfinity store or xfinitymobile. Com today. The freshest nuts dried fruits, snacks and sweets to families all around the country. Nuts. Com. Enjoy Free Shipping on your first order, whos talking to Chris Wallace . Season starts friday night at 10 on cnn. Because of my extensive background in flat bottom, e. They offered me the trainer job. Basically i was training the walgreens technicians and the pharmacist to do the finger stick process because no one at walgreens had ever handled blood or bodily fluids. So talking about what do you do in case of an exposure and how do you handle adolescents . Um this, you know, just everything. What do you do if someone faints . Our goal is to be within five miles of every persons home through the walgreens nationally. Our success will be in being able to make it possible for no one to ever have to go through the process of being stabbed by a big needle to get blood anymore and be able to begin to get access to this lab. And as i was doing my research they had about 90 tests, and by the time i was ready to publish the head over 200 i wondered at the time how exactly where she miniaturizing 200 different tests. And how exactly were you going to get all of this done in a small analyzers . And she was charging so much less than the others. So all of that. Strained. Produce city. I just didnt think that this very sincere. Ernest idealistic young woman was deceiving, not just me. But Walgreens Corporation and investors to the tune of more than 400 million at that point. To be able to give people the tools to change. Their life is an incredible blessing. Its a privilege every single day. Im just so grateful for the way in which this is unfolding. Its a gift from god. We have to understand that this is all about wanting the world to be a certain way and basically being able to rationalize their actions to try and make it true. You have to want a certain thing. And then you should be able to kind of bend reality or rationalize things to allow you to do that. But the other thing is that what about reasons for good. And ill tell you about the study. We did. And the experiment works like this. We give people a di, a six sided die and said, why dont you throw the dime . And will pay. Whatever it comes up comes in six youll get 6. 55 dollars four and so on until one but you can get paid based on the top side or the bottom side. Top bottom, you decide, but dont tell us so i give you the diet. Say, dont dont tell me think. Top to bottom. You have it. You know which one now toss the die. And lets say that that comes with 500 bottom and two on the top. Now i say, alex, and what did you pick . Now, if you pick bottom, you say bottom. You get 5 you picked up what do you say . You say the truth top or do you change your mind . You say bottom and get 5. Experiment people do this 20 times, and every time they think that the bottom committed to memory toss the die in the right five and two, i choose five and so on. And when you do it 20 times, youll find that people are extra lucky right . And luck has this really nice feature of focusing on the sixth one diagnosis, right . The extra lucky on the sixth one. Titus is not so much on the 34. Thats the basic experiment. Now heres the thing. I wont tell you. We do the same experiment. But we connect people to a lie detector. And we asked the question of whether the lie detector can detect it. And the answer is yes. The lie detector can detect lies not all the time but can detect in another version of the experiment, we do the same thing. But people pikachu charity and all the money that theyre going to make today goes to the charity right for a good cause. What do you think happened, people treat more or less. People cheat tomorrow and the lie detector stops working. Why . Because what does the lie detector detects the lie detector detects attention. I want more money, but i think its wrong. I want more money, but i think its wrong. But if its not wrong, why . Why would you worry . If its for a good cause. You can still think of yourself as a good person, and thats how things start. And then it becomes a slippery slope. Chasing Business Premier card is made for people like sam who make everyday products design smarter, smart coffee grinder, fresh beans for you, genius for more breakthroughs like that Breakthrough Card like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5000, or more unlimited 2 cash back on all other purchases and with greater Spending Potential , making smart ideas, brilliant reality. 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The same tv bill every month. Price hikes no matter what for three years, three year Tv Price Guarantee only from dish to you. What will you do . Will you make Something Better . Create something new. Our Dell Technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise. You need to bring out the innovator in you. Okay everyone. Our mission is complete, balanced nutrition together, we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle bone and heart health, 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 g of protein. Closed captioning brought to you by meso book. Com. We proudly help veterans with mesothelioma. Call for a free book 1 808 220400 or go to meso book. Com. I was at the Wall Street Journal and the fifth floor of the journal newsroom and midtown manhattan. I had a couple of weeks prior finished a long series on medicare fraud. So i was looking for something new to sink my teeth into. And one afternoon i met my desk. My phone rings, i pick up and its the source of mind. He asked me whether id read this new yorker profile of Elizabeth Homes that have been published a couple of weeks prior and december of 2014. As it turns out, i had and there was a quote from Elizabeth Holmes that cannot let it described as comically vague. It sounded like the words of a High School Chemistry student, as opposed to a Sophisticated Laboratory scientists whod really admit to new science. But i might not have done anything about it. If it werent for the fact that my source was now coming to me with this tip he said. Theres Laboratory Director who had just left their nose on pretty bad terms because he had become increasingly concerned about the practices that he had witnessed there. My ears definitely picked up at that. And so i made contact. When i got him on the phone after trying him a few times he was terrified. He was being hounded by The Law Firm Of Famous Lawyer david boies. One of their noses. Strokes of genius was to hire david boies and also give him stock in the company. I mean, this is a lion of the legal industry, arguably the most well known lawyer in america who had represented al gore and the president ial recount in 2000 before that one case on behalf of the Justice Department against microsoft and had shred bill gates during 20 hours of deposition. And he would later become famous as legal muscle for Harvey Weinstein and his attempt to silence accusers. This was someone who struck fear in many people. The lab director said that boys was pressuring him and threatening him with litigation. So i had to agree to keep his identity confidential. He told me that the edison could only do a few tests. And that all the other tests on their noses menu and at that point were talking about 250 blood tests were done on commercially available Laboratory Machines that had been purchased from Companies Like siemens and diets or in and then they were also lying about the reliability in the accuracy of the blood tests. So i went to arizona to get myself tested. And so one morning i went to the walgreens that was closest to my hotel. I sat down and one of these little Wellness Centers and the phlebotomist. I heard her talking on the phone and typing on a computer for a few minutes, and then she turned around and she came at me with a tourniquet and a syringe. And i said, well, why not a finger stick . I thought this was all about, you know, Finger Stick Blood tests, she said. No. Your order actually includes tests that require venus draw. The truth is that before my story came out there had already been incidences of people going in to get their blood checked, and they wouldnt need to do a Vendor Puncture instead of finger stick of capillary blood. And so i asked about that a number of times and the answers were incredibly opaque. So my question is what percentage of your tests or needle rather than finger prick. I dont have a really good number for you because its changing and were really confident being able to say that were very close to 99 being on cavalleri. But when you try to pin poking a number talking about in the next five years, one year, two outs much less than a year. Without question. At the time. You didnt think that that was necessarily evidence of absolutely not. I actually believe her. Uh, i remember her saying it to me. And thats a lie period. So after a year or so, we started to see the finger stick collection window. And more vina puncture increase. What did they tell you about why they were switching to part finger stick and part vienna puncture. They just they didnt tell us it just happened. We were told we would need to say this blanket statement. Due to the test that your physician ordered. We have to perform vina puncture to make sure that we had enough sample to perform the testing. Would you like to proceed . Thats it. Yeah its supplies. It surprised a lot of the technicians. It surprised a lot of the patients or the customers that were coming in to some people. How express profanities like stormed out, demanded their money back then, during that whole transition to vienna, puncture we had this big, higher boom where i had to train 50 more employees because now we opened up our next 10 Wellness Centers. With the walgreens roll out the problems that theranos were magnified instead of shutting down until the edisons could perform all the tests on the theranos menu. Elizabeth and her team invented a workaround designed to create the illusion of a new technology for most tests, they were forced to use venus blood drawn with needles and by the same machines used by every other lab. But to keep elizabeths finger stick dream alive, theranos modified some of those machines so they would work with diluted capillary samples and for a handful of Patient Tests. The company used the old edison prototype. Elizabeth had pitched a walgreens. What weve worked to do is eliminate the error in variability thats associated with Human Processing of samples. When elizabeth says the whole process was automated from Start To Finish was, yeah, that was that was a stretch. It would sometimes take six hours just to set up the system before we could even run the patient samples. I was like filling up containers doing so many manual things with my hands. And the scary thing about the nano tenors was today could hop off your tray and they would be on the ground and you might not be able to spot them. They had to delete banana tanners to run it on the seamans machines, which was not how theyre supposed to be used. And so people who worked in the clinical lab were nervous about that because they were violating the operating standards for those devices, which you know are rigorous standards since theyre being used to test people for diseases. We were fudging results, rerunning Quality Control tests until they passed solution at some point was, you know if you just throw out that one data point and the other three look beautiful, and thats not the way you approach science thats going to be impacting peoples lives. There were people who had to run tests on devices that they knew werent working and give those results to patients. People were very upset crying. Some members of the clio ab would even have to call patients and tell them that they had to go to the Emergency Room because the lab test was, you know, so far off. What really hit home for me as we were starting to do more infectious disease. Hepatitis c, Prostate Cancer and even syphilis. I was running Precision Testing for syphilis, and there was a lot of variability in the test, but their nose said this is safe to use on real patients samples and i was kind of blown away. 100. People who had syphilis came and got tested on the thoroughness devices. We would only tell 65 of them that they had syphilis and we would tell the other 35. Youre healthy, no need for medical intervention. So if. People are testing themselves for syphilis using thoroughness. Theres gonna be a lot more syphilis in this world. Their downfall was when they started giving us results that were not matching up with other labs. We started seeing that at first with tsh s, which is the thyroid, stimulating hormone. Patients that have been coming to us for years to get their tsh done. They had gone to theranos and their labs were changing really drastically, so we started sending them to lab core just to verify and thats when we started seeing some pretty abnormal results. I understand how a patient would want to order their own labs. But then they get it and they dont know what to do with it, or they go on google and Google Everything Under The Sun and see that they have cancer. So when they dont read about how many tests were actually wrong, mhm concern you. It did because i had some of those tests performed on me and my children. I did so i immediately went back to the other big Lab Companies and got my test done the same test done and i compared them and there was a big difference. So yeah, it was scary. It was very scary. There are so many people who reach out to us and thank us one guy, he said. No thank god for their nose. And how many times you say that about companies . You buy a product . And do you ever say thank god for uber or maybe sometimes, but but you will say thank god for kernels every day. Because every time you need a lab test every time your family needs a test, i couldnt feel comfortable with running these tests one patients because at the end of the day, i wouldnt run them on myself. I wouldnt run them on my family members, and it just didnt make sense that internally we had so little faith. In these tests, but were still resulting them on patients. Transparency i finally decided enough is enough. I went into sonnys office, and i said, were not letting patients know when these results are false or when we make a mistake. And effectively. What he did is said what makes you think youre qualified to make that call . And you need to just sit down and do your job. Thank you. At that point, i knew its just unacceptable what this company is doing and i dont want to be a part of that. The kind of technologies that youre building. Practically or changing peoples lives every single day, and they couldnt understand how someone could continuously like really changed my perception of her that okay, this person you know, plays this role of, you know, wanting to make health care more accessible of really trying to leverage Innovative New technologies to solve this huge problem that we have in health care, but its all its all a show. I grew up. Spending summers and the holidays. With my uncle going nuts. Remember how much i loved him . I loved him so much fine. Diagnosed one day, normal skin skin cancer, and then actually was he has brain cancer, too much also knew it was great cancer and i ever got today. The goal is to give you some sanity context time when. Because of what we show access. One died and. When i think of theranos, i really feel like there were two entirely different worlds. There was the Carpeted World and there was the tiled world. In the Carpeted World was where elizabeth was a goddess. Everyone you know, almost worshiped the ground. She walked on. She can do no wrong. She was the next steve jobs. Their nose was changing the world and then you go into the tail side and nothing works on a sinking ship. Everything is alive. Reconciling the differences between those two worlds was really hard for me to do. I knew elizabeth personally from all these interactions through my family, um so i really trusted her. I believed in her i would leave the tiled world thinking, oh, man, sinking ship and i would go have one conversation with elizabeth was founded. The goal of reading actionable experience. You can begin to understand your body and i would be so motivated to go back and work and i felt like i was changing the world again and i would go back into the tile world go just what just happened. You want it to be true so badly, and even for me . I was working with these devices. Every single day, and she could still kind of convinced me. But i think back on those conversations. I just think like how how did she do that . You kind of start to believe that maybe youre the one whos crazy, right . Because everyone else thinks this womans great everyone else wants to throw money at her wants to be on board with this and wants to be a part of it. At the time. She was just like iconic figure. This woman in techo is revolutionizing everything is just like steve jobs invitation. Sometimes you have to think maybe youre rob. At the time, you wondered whether Elizabeth Connections were protecting her. It kind of caused a bit of a crisis of faith. And, you know, just the power of government. And how corrupt or not. They were for me. You know, i thought that their was going to get away with it. Charging historically low prices, which is small fraction. Of what is charged now. And while maintaining the highest standards with all her political connections, she was chummy with the obama administration. The bet that she made was that if she surrounded herself with powerful people, the regulators wouldnt get confrontational with her. The end game. I think it comes back to fake it until you make it. Elizabeth never gave up on her ultimate vision to get the device not only in stores but ultimately in the homes of patients. She wanted to be like apple and steve jabbed in the sense that apple devices are ubiquitous. She wanted edison devices in every home in america. The only thing is you need fda approval to make that happen. Diabetes can serve up a lot of questions like what is your glucose . And can you have more carbs before you decide . Freestyle libre two system no, your Glucose Level and where its headed. No finger sticks needed Manager Diabetes with more confidence and lower your a one c. The number one doctor prescribes. See gm freestyle right to try it for free at freestyle library dot us. How to grow more vibrant flowers. Step one. Feed them with miracle gro, shake and feed. Thats it. Miracle gro, you need to know to grow to grow delicious ubs step one use miracle gro potting mix. Thats it. Miracle gro, or you need to know to grow. This electric feels different. Because its powered by the most potent source of energy. There is you. This is the lexus variety of electrification. Inspired by created for and powered by you. Good good. Good feeling my bone. Gotta shake it out. Im going harder than before. Let me run around the whole world from the bottom to the top of it and get out. Im the talk of the town. I know youre feeling it now. Come on and move to the sound. Keep going, keep it going and turn it. I got a good good, good Feeling Transitions under control. Good morning, everyone control. Good morning, everyone we do begin with our customers dont do what they do for likes or followers. Their path isnt for the casually curious. And thats what makes it matter the most when they find it. The exact thing that can change the world. Some say its what they were born to do. Its what they live to do. Trinet serves small and medium sized businesses. So they can do more of what matters. Benefits. Payroll. Compliance. Trinet. People matter. Wide plus get Free Design Services dot com. Eva longoria searching for mexico tomorrow at nine on cnn. I did talk to the chief medical person at the fda, who expressed some skepticism, he said they have not provided enough information for the agency to clear or approve the test. Accurate. Is this something that you wanted to actually use in the article . Yes okay, so thats part of a challenge because there are legal team is concerned about this because theres a lot of context behind that a lot of problems for us. Thats why im asking for context. Give it to me. Im all ears. Okay let me let me talk to our legal team right now. They told me that i cant comment on this because elizabeth was tap dancing around her discussions with the fda. Rather than submit full applications. There are those flooded the fda with vague exploratory letters trying to stall for time until the edisons could do all the tests that theranos advertised and that could take years. In the meantime, the Theranos Operation In palo alto was being regulated by cms, the federal agency in charge of clinical labs. Theranos was also playing games with them. Even though some Patient Tests were performed on edisons theranos never reported. Those. The company only gave cms the data from third Party Machines decision was, lets send what was on the amulet and on the seamans ad via. Lets not send the Edison Results and that really freaked me out. Because that was suggesting that okay, we didnt trust the edison test and here we were able to make that discernment of what was the appropriate one to send but we werent doing that with patience. And when cms came in for the inspection, and elizabeth only showed them the lab with the seamans ad via the amulet. They never took them downstairs to the secondary lab , where we process all the finger sticks on the edisons strictly told us just stay at your desk. They didnt want any of us down there because they were scared if the Inspector Saw what was going on, that could have huge consequences. It just seemed scandalous to us. It was getting to the point where there was really no hope. You know, i pretty much decided that i was going to quit. Right after i resigned. I went to my grandfathers office at stanford. Actually showed him a lot of data. And the discrepancy between what i was seeing and what was being published and explanation for those differences. But he didnt really seem to believe what i was saying. And he said, like elizabeth has told me that their notes really can do all the things that it says it can do their noses, you know, more accurate going to change the world. Theyre trying to convince me that youre stupid. They cant convince me that youre stupid, but they can convince me that youre wrong. And i do think that youre wrong. So move on with your life. Few months afterwards. John kerry rule from the Wall Street Journal sent me a message on linkedin. I was definitely in a panic confidentiality agreements i had signed while i was out there knows, so i went and bought a burner phone with cash. I called in and in that phone call, i decided that i wanted to help him out. I said, you know, my grandfather made it through watergate and the iran contra scandal with his integrity completely intact. Once he becomes aware of the fraud thats happening. He will do everything he can to make things right. And i want to give him that opportunity. Because thank you is like 94 95 at the time. So i met with john in person, and then he sent their notes some prodding questions. And there is just one number in there 42. 9 that i had calculated for one of these tests. That was also in an email that i had sent to elizabeth. About a month. After that, i went to go have dinner with my parents. I walk in the door and my dad says, have you been speaking to a Wall Street Journal reporter . And i said yes. And he said, well, they know. After i leave their nose. I kind of want to be as far away from them as possible. I was working another job, and at this point i had talked to john carrier from the Wall Street Journal who was doing an investigative report. At work one day im working late and two of my colleagues are leaving and im going to be the only one in the building and they look outside and theyre like, hey, erica, like theres been this guy whos just been sitting in our parking lot for the whole day. And thats very unusual. So they walked me to my car. And then this guy comes up and it gives me this letter. Has the address of this temporary home that im staying at. So no one knows this address. And i open it, and its a letter from david boies. If you dont come forward with x y and z document or report these people, theres a potential that we could sue you. It was quite quite scary for me. Especially coming from a position of what i was 23 at that point, you know, i have hadnt not really any money to spend on lawyers or anything. I was really freaked out. Ive been asking for an interview with elizabeth for several months, and they were giving me the runaround. Finally in june, 2015. We agreed that wed have a meeting at the journal offices. This theranos delegation comes in. Its seven people, four of whom are lawyers, led by david boies, and one of the other lawyers is heather king. Heather has just joined us as our general counsel. Who had been a voice schiller partner, former Hillary Clinton aide. A couple of minutes into the meeting, heather king puts a little tape recorder down on the table. Another boy, schiller, turning, put a little tape recorder. On the other end of the conference table, and it was very clear that they were approaching this as a deposition in the legal proceeding. If they were going to record then i was going to record as well. You know, were here today to do our power to help educate you on what i at least believe are some you know, false premises upon which the questions are based, there very serious questions and theres some very serious allegations in those questions. Um, they also turned to david boies. David attends all the Board Meetings. We wouldnt be here. Spent all this time and effort. If the weve gotta technology, we discuss it more freely because its trade secret thats why because you wont sign an n d a. Is there really new technology . Listen is it really new technology . This is something no ones ever been able to do it before. Okay theranos is doing it. Um and unless its magic, you know what your new technology i knew that most of their blood tests were run on commercial analyzers made by third party companies. And so i said, how how can this even fall under the bucket of trade secrets if these arent even thoroughness machines, saying that the trade secrets also covers the way in which you run the blood sample on the seamans idea, i think i dont know the answer to that. But i can tell you that it could or could not just feels like you want us to give you the formula for coke in order to convince you that it doesnt contain arsenal has asked for the formula coke looking for a generic explanation. You know how they believe. I understand. Its curious. That sounds like it wasnt because we went around in circles. And the fact that they were stonewalling in such a strong way made me feel like we were on the right track. You know, it seems apparent to us that certainly one of your key sources as a young man named tyler schultz, because the concerns that you are raising precisely or concerns that he raised in a very brief time that he was at our company. I dont know. I dont remember his exact words, but he said, well, they know, they know. So i called my grandfather and he said, elizabeth tells me that youve been speaking that youve been giving trade secrets away to the Wall Street Journal. And you know if this story gets published that essentially your career will be ruined, but theres a one page confidentiality agreement you can sign to just make it all go away. Inside. Go to his house the next morning, he said. Okay, well, there are actually two fairness lawyers here right now. I was extremely nervous about what was going to happen very uncomfortable with the whole situation. They come in, and they give me a notice to appear in court and about 36 hours. Temporary restraining order. And a letter signed by david boies. They really made me feel like i was alone. I was the underdog. I was going to get crushed. Good morning, mr secretary. Good morning. Do you recall a time when tyler came to your home, and there were some attorneys from the boys schiller firm there . I wouldnt call him attorneys. The man with some sort of an animal. Wild animals. And he assaulted my grandson. Dumbest things ive ever observed. When do you say that . The man assaulted your grandson. Could you be a little more specifically went after him . But had ended. What it did. My wife is about to pick an iron out and i look at the fireplace and club room. My grandfather physically separates us and puts the fairness lawyers in the living room and im in the dining room, and hes going between the two rooms negotiating the secretary of state. Yeah secretary of state and my grandfather seemed like he had grown that his allegiance to elizabeth nanos had grown even stronger. Do you have a high opinion of miss holmes . Do you believe that ms holmes was truthful with you and all of your interactions with her . I think so. In any of her interactions with you. Did miss holmes ever do anything to give you reason to believe that she was trying to deceive, you know . Yeah, thats when lawyers became a really big part of my life. They were threatening to sue me for violating my nondisclosure agreement for giving up trade secrets many times i had written notices to appear in court, and at the last minute they would cancel it. Overall my parents spent between 405 100,000 in legal fees. It was getting to the point where we needed to find money somewhere, so they said that they would sell their house to keep fighting this legal battle. So i ended up talking to a lawyer, and they said, you know, theyre trying to scare you. And he said one of the options that you can do is you can whistle blow. You could be protected. If you talk to Regulatory Agency, and im like what Regulatory Agency like. How do you do that . Ive been nervous to send or even write this letter. Theranos takes confidentiality and secrecy to an extreme level has always always happen in a clinical lab. But what went on in thoroughness was complete negligence and honestly felt criminal. In many ways, upper Level Management constantly made excuses for their muskets continue to still process and aggressive samples using their finger stick together. I dont feel like its sort of a cold blooded scam, right . It just seems it started off as something small like one lie and snowballed into this really crazy situation. Most knows the first step to motivation. Inspiration got new. Everything new flooring, new paint new patio sets. New pillows can keep going. If you want me to. You got this. We got you. 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If i knew about up work, i would have hired actually talented people from all over the world instead of talent, less people from all over my house, grandpa. But you but. This is how we work now. He doesnt see ocean like theyre animals living underwater. The ocean warm . Yeah it, um, can be very warm. You were made to remember some days forever. We were made to help you find the best way there. Open condom star. Vetted fiduciy Financial Advisors to get started. Take the adviser. Match quiz now at smart asset. Com was this close . Its close story with Anderson Cooper tomorrow at eight on cnn. Cant touch this. So what do you guys think about the fda clearance . Around the fourth of july, 15. It was euphoria company it was, you know. Anything thats got like that. You know you dont this is very meaningful miles elizabeth. Inside me. It felt like a great victory at the time. It was a big celebration for a little victory. The fda had finally approved. One rarely used test for herpes to be run on an edison prototype. That was too little too late for walgreens, which put the brakes on opening new Wellness Centers. Theranos had boasted revenues of more than A Billion Dollars for 2015 the actual cash in the door. It was only a few 100,000. Elizabeth and sunny. Were not backing down. Were going to send a message question. Remember, these are the guys who are after us. And theyre attacking the work that you guys are doing. Are you ready . One. Two. Three. I saw the alert when i got up in the morning and i read it by my bed. It had this really understated headline. But the contents of the article where just devastating. When i got to work, i read it a couple more times. Suddenly all of the trade secret stuff made sense. I see. Its not a trade secret. Different kind of secret. And, um. And did not know that seamans were being used until after the article hit, and then that kind of explains why we were doing being a puncture, as opposed to the biggest collection. I then started every for every vamp in my resume. Im sorry, but i did. I was lucky when the Wall Street Journal actually ended up publishing their article because once that happened, efforts were focused elsewhere. We never went to court. We never had any sort of settlement just kind of died. And future of the company was at stake. So we gathered in our cafeteria. Elizabeth and sunny spoke to what was happening and that these allegations are not true. And then elizabeth made a comment about taking on the Wall Street Journal as a fight. I knew immediately when i woke up that day that the article was having impact because emails from readers and from colleagues were flowing into my inbox, and i was also getting asked to do various media interviews. Wall street journal story by john kerry ruth. Thanks for joining us, john the article was a wake up call for Silicon Valley. This sort of gold rush had been going on these unicorns had been created companies that have valuations of more than A Billion Dollars. They were staying private much longer than startups had in the dot com boom of the late nineties, and as a result, they were able to be less transparent than companies that have to report to investors every quarter. And i think suddenly there was a realization in Silicon Valley that this has allowed fraud to thrive. Obviously i called theranos and tried to speak to elizabeth and was told that she was going to be unavailable all day. She was being inducted into the Harvard Medical School board of fellows. And, um. I was just stunned. I was thinking in my mind, you know, the Wall Street Journal is just said. Hmm that youre a fraud and that your company is a fraud. And the company i put on the cover of magazine is a fraud. And youre going to spend the whole day. Hiding out. At this, uh. Get this, uh. Honorary. You know . You need to get out here. And go through this article. Paragraph by paragraph. Explaining what the going on at your at your company. Your article was pretty brutal. But hero made money. We know something we know that there are two sides to every single story coming to us this afternoon from boston, where she is attending a meeting of the board of fellows at Harvard Medical School. Give her a chance to answer the charges raised in the article. Miss homeless welcome back to make money. Its great to be here. Thank you. This is what happens when you work to change things. And first they think youre crazy. Then they fight you. And then all of a sudden you change the world and i have to say i personally was shocked to see that the journal would publish Something Like this every single one of the sources that we spoke with who the journal had contacted told us that the statements that were being attributed to them were false or misleading, and she decided to come out and address my story and rebut it. There are no issues a Press Release calling my reporting false and they were threatening us with litigation. Journalism here has been so bad they deserve to be sued, but lawsuits rarely resolve issues. Whats going to resolve this issue is the science, the marketplace. Um the company has been successful in arizona. Um doctors are happy. Patients are happy theyre getting patients were not happy. The fda was so worried about Patient Safety that it banned the use of the nanotech er. Putting an end to all finger stick test at walgreens. Cms conducted a surprise inspection of the theranos slab. And found the Blood Testing so inaccurate. Posed the threat to Patient Safety likely to cause serious injury, harm or death. Cms revoked the labs license to operate. The letter that prompted cms to act came from erica chung. You know, in the end for me, it was a bit of a mixed feeling. I was really excited because the truth finally got out. But then also a bit of sadness in the fact that um, you know, we all really wanted that project to succeed. Have you been able to when your argument with your grandfather in terms of persuading him with the problems that theranos he said that he had no idea how much deception there was and that he was proud of me. Yeah. Yeah, im glad he finally. Really gets it. There was a Journal Technology conference taking place in laguna beach in late october, 2015 and it so happened that more than a year. Prior headlined up. Elizabeth holmes is one of the speakers. Could you get specific on the key points today . And not only did she come . She came swinging tests that are offered or of the highest quality. We know what were doing, and were very proud of it, where theyre situations in which you had to dilute. Blood samples. What the journal described that we take a sample diluted and put it on a commercial analyzer is inaccurate, and thats not what we do. I watched it on the journal website, and i couldnt believe what she just said. There was no question that that was a huge lie because they were absolutely doing it. We dont actually use the technology thats being referred to as edison for anything and havent for a few years now. When we do finger stick every time we use technology that is not commercially available. We have never used commercially Available Lab equipment. Four finger stick based tests every finger stick test underestimated her willingness to bald faced lie in public on our turf. What i really want to know is do you feel now, in hindsight that maybe you went to market a little too quickly pressure to do that in any way the exact same company. Nothing has changed. Were working every single day try to get these tests and systems to meet the highest quality standards. A couple months after john kerry rose article, i wrote a new story. It was both a correction and maia copa. And i said that elizabeth had intentionally misled me. After i published the piece elizabeth called me and there was a long conversation. He was not apologetic. She said. I never would intentionally trying to mislead you. Why would we do that . She was trying to persuade me to take out that sentence. She said Something Like if youre not going to take that language out, were gonna have to do something about that language, which was a little menacing, but all that he then did was they wrote a letter. Toward the end. There was a weird paragraph something to the effect that elizabeth didnt even realize that fortune was doing a feature profile, let alone a cover. And it was so such a bizarre think because, uh , i was out there for days and i had called all these people at her behest, you know. Seven directors. The head of ucsf medical center, the head of blue cross blue shield, i call i spent an hour and a half with her parents. I met her brother. I asked her about the letter she wrote when she was nine. I asked her about the book her father gave her when she went away to school, which was meditations by marcus a real use. And then there was the photo shoot. It was a big name photographer and his assistance and the lighting equipment and taking a couple 100 photos and in different locations in different poses. That was a clue, you know. This was real lunacy. I realized that there was something wrong with her mind that you know, i dont know if shes uh, lying or if shes uh um theres an unconscious uh reconstruction, self protective reconstruction of reality thats going on. But when its coming out of her mouth is not mapping onto reality as you are. I know it, you know . From big cities. Two small towns and on main streets across the us, youll find pnc bank helping businesses both large and small communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. Were proud to call these places home to their where we put down roots and where together we work to help move everyones financial goals forward. Pnc bank. You so close. Marlon to me, catch you, darling will dance in the street. Nobodys watching. Its just doing me and the song celebrate every kiss. Get zero down special financing with the k jewelers credit card. I was stuck unresolved depression. 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Closed captioning is brought to you by Christian Faith publishing right for a higher purpose, published with us Christian Faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book called for your free author. Submission kit 804 551827. I wish i had could say to her, elizabeth, im gonna give you truth serum. And youre gonna tell me what was going through your mind . At that time. And the question becomes, do you do we believe that you would say i knowingly lied . I have a hard time. Imagining her, saying that. She was a zealot. And a zealot is such a believer, true believer and what theyre doing that theyre blind to the reality was happening. Not for a moment. Do i believe that she lies in bed at night . And thanks i was a swindler. I was a crook. I lied. So one day i get an email from somebody who works with elizabeth hongs yes, me if i would come and meet with their team and with elizabeth i said, sure. Positive my research is actually about human motivation , and she was very concerned about the motivation in the company because they couldnt tenuous stories around them were the motivating. My impression was that she truly believed in the mission. Of the company, and then she also believed that they are underway. To achieve something, and they just need the runway. Theres a lot of flying in Silicon Valley. And i remember when my first book on dishonesty came out and i did a book tour and i gave a few talks in Silicon Valley. Some entrepreneurs said. Oh, we are in Technology Technology doesnt lie. Right so in the basically said, like, you know, we are honest. Theres no opportunities and i didnt say anything but in two minutes, all kind of people from the start ups around them started talking about how they lied to investors. And they have all these graphs of growth, right . I mean, theyre predicting the future and theyre putting exact numbers on there. And my thought was that there is this idea. In Silicon Valley, where you um in a very brave way. Put the post. Somewhere really far. That you truly have no idea if you can get there. In my sense from the discussion with elizabeth was that she felt that she was basically doing the same thing that everybody else is doing. We have lots of people who overconfident and from time to time. Some of them work out and we get penicillin or they could listen lightbulb what we get. And if youre surrounded by companies who try very hard and dedicate their lives to achieve the impossible and then sometimes theyre successful in doing it. Why cant you . At the highest level. We didnt have the right leadership in the laboratory, and i didnt realize until the inspection that these types of issues were in place until the government told you that you are really out of compliance. You didnt know what was your reaction when you found out that you had all these violations in your lab was devastating. I dont blame anyone else. You have controlling shares in that company, Elizabeth Holmes, the buck stops there. People make mistakes, but you must always admit it. My husbands favorite phrase. Excuses are like. Everyone has one. Sorry you dont have to put that in there. One of the headlines was 9 billion company down to zero, and your investors and your Board Members are reading those same things. Its probably the most important question. I think anybody whos watching has about this. Does it work. Yes. Youre confident in that i am confident that without further ado, id like to welcome Elizabeth Holmes, founder and c e. Elizabeth did not give up. She fought back by taking center stage at a clinical Lab Conference in front of all her critics, she defiantly unveiled the machine she had been hiding for so long. Many lab is designed called it mini lab as if it were a new invention. This is an Inflection Point for our company, but inside theranos, it had another name. Edison four point oh, by 2017 theranos had spent virtually all of the 900 million it had raised nearly 300 million went to pay legal fees settle lawsuits from investors and to refund every patient in arizona for their blood tests. Henry kissinger, George Shultz and even david boyce resigned from the board. Elizabeth broke up with sonny and fired him from the company, but she never lost her faith in the power of invention. Its finding. What you love and finding what youre born to do. And when you find that whether its you know, writing or painting or science or whatever it is when you when you really give everything to that then. Then then you can realize great things and will fail 10,000 times if we have to, but well figure it out on the 10001st. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Cant touch this. Cant touch this. Touch this next time on the whole story. Just Electric Flight Climate Warriors Racing to save the planet. Youre part of the movement to basically build the oil industry and reverse carbon removal. Godzilla get mad and go kill that thing. Every molecule of fuel to that doesnt end in the atmosphere victory, searching for new ways to fix mistakes. The whole story with Anderson Cooper tomorrow at eight. Every sunday one whole story one whole hour. On cnn. Jalisco has always been at the forefront of mexicos national culture, every iconic image you know about mexico comes from this state. On oil fingers in the oil that is next level mexican cooking. Ill tell you that life is good with video. Oh my god. I could eat five of those place beautiful longoria searching for mexico tomorrow at nine on cnn. Welcome