finally get across. >> no biting! >> we wanted to make a show that made you participate. made you pay attention. and i think that worked pretty well. >> and the winner is -- >> "hill street blues." >> 21 nominations. and we went on to win eight emmys. it put us on the map, literally. that's when people finally checked us out. >> programming chief of one of the networks used to say to me about shows like "hill street" and "st. elsewhere," what the american public wants is a cheeseburger and what you're trying to give them is a french delicacy. and he said, your job is to keep shoving it down their throat until after a while, they'll say, that's doesn't taste bad. and maybe they'll even order it themselves when they go to the restaurant. >> nice of you to join us, dr. morrison. >> the success of "hill street blues" is a critical phenomenon, influenced everything that came after. and then of course you saw shows like "st. elsewhere." >> do you know what people call