Transcripts For CNN The Arrest and Arraignment of Donald Tru

, the venue for an american 1st 100 center street in downtown manhattan, playing host to a new chapter in u. s history. today the arrest and arraignment of donald trump. former president trump is back in the city that made him famous. but this time to face a new reality, the first ever former president to face criminal charges. good afternoon to our viewers around the world. i'm anderson cooper, new york and i'm jake tapper in washington, d c. we're just hours away from the opening gavel. of the people of the state of new york versus donald j. trump this is the scene, the manhattan criminal courts complex for mr trump. will surrender. we're told and then where prosecutors will drop and indictment spelling out multiple charges against him at this very moment, we still do not know exactly what those charges are and how many there are connected to mr trump's alleged scheme to buy the silence of adult film actress and director stormy, daniels said a pivotal 2016 campaign moment. as we come on air. we are told that the former president remains inside trump tower in manhattan. we're told that he will soon leave his namesake new york high rise for a trek to the 15th floor courtroom. a journey that required days of negotiation and planning with officials, every single police officer in new york city some 35,000 has been told to be ready for well. or anything. our reporting team will be inside the courtroom to bring you all the information about the arraignment will see photographs of the former president in court, but the actual court proceedings will not be on camera. cnn's team of reporters is embedded at every step of this unprecedented moment in u. s history. cnn's katelyn polantz outside court right now, and caitlin. that mr trump plans to speak briefly before going into the building. yeah jake for president has been itching to talk about this looming indictment ever since he arrived here in new york yesterday. of course, he is going to become the first ever ex president to face criminal charges when he enters the manhattan criminal court building behind me. that is what he is expected to do just shortly, and he's in wanting to talk publicly about this. he has not done so yet, but he will soon and one thing that his own team is worried about is what he will say because they are hoping he does not come before cameras before he enters that courtroom and says something that could further inflame the situation or potentially hurt his case, which , as of right now, we even though they have yet to see the indictment, either, jake they do believe is one that will ultimately benefit them and fall in their favor. in the end, of course, that is far from certain at this point, and at this stage of where we are at, as he is about to turn himself into the authorities, but trump has been wanting to speak publicly, and he did not want to wait. until he returned. mar-a-lago tonight, where he is still scheduled to give an address around 8:15 p.m. in front of surrogates and supporters. he wanted to talk about it here in new york. initially they had planned for maybe him to deliver a speech outside of the courthouse after he left. now he's expected to do so when there is a camera outside of the courtroom before he goes before the judge that he has been trashing, of course, the district attorney that he has also been criticizing to his own team. isn't quite sure what he's going to say they are hoping that he will stick to their talking points about how they believe this is a political prosecution jake, but certainly a historic day as the president has been on the phone with aides and advisers all morning. paul reed is also in new york for us and paula donald trump is already out there publicly questioning whether he can get a fair trial in heavily democratic manhattan. tell us more about that. that's exactly right. but at this point is more of a political argument one the former president is making on social media. one is advisors will pushing over the weekend, but i've spoken with his legal team and they told me look, we're going to wait until we see this indictment before we decide which motions we are going to file, but i would jake eventually expect that they will likely file a motion to change venue just so they can preserve all of their possible options on appeal. they have to be able to convince the judge if there is potentially a conviction here, that they tried everything they could for a different outcome, so i think eventually we will see a motion for a change of venue but have spoken with a source familiar with the trump legal teams thinking and they believe that he can possibly get a fair trial in manhattan because they believe now without seeing the indictment, they believe that there are a lot of highly educated people on juries here in manhattan that will see through this. and see it for what they believe it is, which is a political prosecution now once they see the indictment or circle back, and still if that, see if that is still the thinking, but as of now, the lawyers are not working on any attempt to move this case to staten island. all right, paula reid and katelyn polantz. thanks so much. anderson jake. thanks very much. john miller first, um , actually joining the team, let's just start with john. what are you expecting? well we're going to have a move from trump tower. it's not what president trump is used to. this is an 11 car motorcade, but without the phalanx of, you know, 25 motorcycles, leading it and the entire route frozen along the way and a lot of specialized vehicles. this will be, uh, police escort front and back and basically his secret service detail and some staff cars, so a lot less pomp, but for very different circumstance in that he's in a situation where they are balancing the need to deal with security needs to protect a former president while making an effort to treat him throughout this process as close as they can to any other criminal defendant. they're not going to come that close, but they're trying to split the difference. also joining us is former chief assistant district attorney under the former manhattan d. a cy vance, karen friedman, magnifico karen, welcome to cnn. you you know this courtroom? you know this judge, you know this process. what are you looking at this morning? so everybody is, of course, waiting to see what the charges are. and we want to see the indictment and exactly what it looks like what he's charged with and what the theory under which many of the case the charges are being brought. looking to see what the judge does. is the judge going to try to restrict anything, it's unlikely that there's been talking about some sort of a gag order that seems highly unlikely. gorder is unlikely given the first amendment constraints. that being said this judge, judge marshawn is somebody who's going to going to keep a tight control of his courtroom. he's not going to think about politics. he's going to think about this case. from now on. he is defendant donald trump. he's not presidential candidate donald trump, and so you have to protect the integrity of the jury process and the trial process. so i think he's going to make sure that these these threats and these comments that that defendant trump will has been making all morning about about the judge about the prosecutor. has to rein that in and this judge will not allow him. to in any way make it so that the integrity of the process or you think it's possible he may caution the former president. i think at a minimum, he will caution him and tell him he has to stop. it's clear donald trump is trying to somehow get the judge off the case, or the d, a off the case to get the case moved to another venue that he thinks is more friendly to him, and this judge is not going to allow him to do anything to cause that to happen, and to somehow you know, make this this prosecution be less than exactly the way it should be, which is fair and for him to get a fair trial. do you also have a sense of when the president with the former president and his attorneys will actually get the indictment when they will actually know the charges because they'll know obviously, before the judge reads them out loud in court to the defendant would expect around the time that that he gets that mr trump gets processed arrest process with the way john miller was saying. i would expect that at that point, that's normally when the lawyers would would receive the charges that being said in this case, mr trump has been talking about speaking before he goes into court, so there may be some consideration about whether he should be permitted to speak about it before the judge is speaks about it to him. and to me. the biggest moment of today will be when we see that indictment that will be our first meaningful, substantive look. at the prosecution's case here, and there's a couple of things i'm looking for. first of all. how much detail do they put in the indictment is, karen knows prosecutors have completely white indictments are written by prosecutors. some indictments are very bare bones could be that's if it's 34 accounts. there's a chance this could be 12 pages, however, sometimes especially in high profile occasions. prosecutors put much more detail in there, so that's number one, and the second big question is what are the charges? dividing into sort of two lanes here. is it all based on the stormy daniels hush money payments, or is there something else? how many different fronts? is donald trump going to have to defend himself on here? i we have some signals there, which is 34 counts could be 12 pages or it could be 50 pages. but the signals are that the district attorney has called a press conference for this afternoon after the indictment is unsealed . what does that tell you? what it tells you is district attorney's generally can find themselves to only what's on the printed page of the indictment in their comments, and if the indictment is only the essential charges without the story behind them. that will be a very difficult press conference to call and get through with any substance, so it's a tell hint at best that there's more to it and that this will be his first opportunity to not just released the document after the judge unseals it, but explain what it means also said that it's important to look at what's not in the indictment. what's there and what's not there? yes so there's been so much speculation about what this indictment could be. as john said, perhaps there could be a conspiracy charge and that would tell a whole story about election interference. not just about this one, this one scenario of hush money payments to stormy daniels. if the theory could be here that this has been a conspiracy to influence elections, the 2016 election by the various catch and kill stories the with with david pecker, who was this ceo of american karen macdougal prior to this exactly with karen macdougal and perhaps others, other situations where they agreed to do things to influence the election. so will they confine this to just the false business records, which which we think it will be, or will they make this a bigger sweeping case about election interference, and donald trump sitting in the oval office as sitting president writing these checks 11 checks as president of the united states and right now he's going through this as the gop frontrunner. right so we're in this moment, where typically kind of post term immunity was a kind of legal courtesy extended to former presidents culturally , the us kind of said, especially with gerald ford pardoning nixon that look, we're not going to do this. we want to back away from the brink when it comes to these kinds of prosecutions and the fact that we're here now and the fact that it might have been unavoidable, given that there are what two other investigations going on. that could also have implications is pretty straight and there could be frankly, more indictments. sure jack smith is watching. i'm sure that fani willis and fulton county georgia is watching. i'm sure they're both glad they're not going first. but in a way, it's almost unavoidable. remember the roots of this come out of the mueller investigation where they kind of unearthed this idea about the payments? and here we are all this time later, the ripple effects of this listen, if it's just a it's just the stormy and i don't mean to minimize it, but it just the stormy daniels things that we know about, right? i think this is gonna be really bad for this district attorney and bad for america that this is the first prosecution brought against former president and it's something that's deemed to be. i'm not trying to minimize again . but being to be minor right? not not expansive. i think it's going to be really, really destructive documents people would say, oh, it's just documents. i think with every case, minimize that i'm saying none of the cases would be considered the same. well if this is the only pebble gets thrown at donald trump. after all, he's done. i agree with david, but this could be the first pebble in avalanche. and then we're going to get very differently right now. donald trump is preparing to go to manhattan criminal court to turn himself in next to new move from district attorney brag in the wake of repeated personal attacks from the former president. special live coverage continues right after a quick break. my most important kitchen tool, my brarain choose new area plus, , unlike some others, plps is a multitaskerer supporting sx key indicators of brain health. keep me sharp, areva bigr your business will save over 1000 bucks. what are you going t do with i i could use a new sign. with t mobile for business save more than 1000 bucks versus verizon and witour price lock guaranteed will never raise your rate plan ever. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if your 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midtown and the manhattan criminal courts building in the southern tip of manhattan island, where donald trump will soon turn himself and you're watching cnn's special coverage , the arrest and arraignment of donald trump. soon we're going to find out which laws manhattan prosecutors claim trump broke when he allegedly orchestrated a hush money scheme. in 2016. let's go to cnn's kara scannell, who's in new york, and care what signs are we seeing today of the heightened security measures were we were told about from the manhattan district attorney's office. well jake. i mean, as you can see behind me, the crowd of reporters and photographers has really grown. that's because the manhattan district attorney's offices directly over my shoulder and that is where we expect trump's motorcade to drop him off. sources tell our colleagues that they're going to have some kind of white curtain or draping as an additional security measures when trump exits the motorcade in his car, he will go right into the district attorney's office and that is when he will be under arrest and the processing will begin. expect that to be expedited, and then he'll go into the courtroom, enter his not guilty plea and then exit. but one other thing that we've noticed today is that on the manhattan district attorney's website, they have a section that says, meet your team, where it identifies the top prosecutors in the office that appears to be taken down. it says the page is not working. and you know, this comes as the former president has called for protests. we've seen some flags here. we've seen some trump 2020 flags here, a small crowd, but it's a growing crowd. and there have been threats against bragg's office. we didn't remember there was an envelope delivered here with some nonhazardous, white powder and trump also saying, you know that's verbally attacking, brags , so we're seeing some protections at the office is taking to try to minimize who their prosecutors are given the increased threats and that real security risks at play here, jake, that's right. donald trump going after the district attorney brag with real, really harsh infective. now let's go over to cnn's jeff zeleny. trump tower where, eight years ago this june, donald trump came down that escalator and changed the world forever. jeff you are getting new information from the inner circle of mr trump. what do you do, telling you? jake i am told that former president donald trump has spent the majority of the morning talking with his political advisors and his legal advisers. and that is significant because both of these two very distinctive teams suzy wiles and campaign manager from florida blanche, a criminal defense attorney from here in new york, they all now have the same client if you will that has donald j. trump. what they want to know. overall first and foremost is what charges are in this indictment. what are the political challenges going forward and without knowing what is in the indictment? they cannot fully assess that. but once the indictment is unsealed , they do plan to assess what is next from here. of course, he has been inside trump tower for about 20 hours now. of course, this is the building that made him famous from the apprentice boardroom that took him to the oval office. as you said eight years ago when he first announced in june, but once he leaves trump tower, the confines of the comforts of trump tower shortly after lunchtime here within the hour, we believe he will also be leaving some control that he has long had as he's been going through legal battles. tabloid scandals business dealings here in his native new york city once he heads to lower manhattan inside the courtroom, jake donald trump, no longer simply a former president. he's also a criminal defendant. criminal defendant, jeff zeleny outside trump tower . thanks so much. let's talk with my panel here. so dan, and about an hour or so we expect trump's gonna walk down the hallway, go to the courtrooms, and we expect he's going to say something before he goes into the building. what do you think he's going to say? he's going to try to put forward a sort of veneer of a fighter of somebody who, according this is, according to a source i spoke with this morning who has been in constant touch with him. team captain team leader team being, of course team trump. he sees it as team trump team republican and, most importantly, whether he says it today in the hallway or tonight when he speaks at mar-a-lago today, it's me tomorrow. it could be you the same kind of message. with a different variation that he has been giving since that. escalator moment in june of 2015 that what you're seeing now play out is a different version of what is happening to you in your lives. trump supporters. american people. american voters understand that that is part of the republican playbook these days to talk about how democrats weaponized the government. but this is not a particularly relatable crime. there aren't a lot of americans out there who were about to be indicted for falsifying records because they helped pay off a porn star correct in. some legal experts have been skeptical about these charges. and but i want to say this we have talked a lot about how easy it is to get an indictment. alvin bragg knows what's at stake here. he didn't do this just to get an indictment. he wants to get a conviction. and so i think it's worth saying over and over again . not only don't we know what's going to be in this indictment. we don't know what the evidence is going to be, and we have heard from multiple sources. documents that things are going to be corroborated witnesses. we know members of trump's campaign staff were witnesses at the grand jury, so i just want to end with two words under arrest . donald trump is going to be under arrest in a couple of hours. philip one of the things we hear we and we hear a lot of defenses coming from republicans on capitol hill. and on right wing media. one of the things you don't hear is there's no way donald trump paid off a porn star. yeah i mean, pretty much everybody is conceding to some degree that they can't argue on the substance of what he's being accused of. they're just saying that it shouldn't be prosecuted that maybe it doesn't rise to the level and we'll see. we actually don't know whether that's true or not, it could very well be, but but i think that when you look at the poll numbers in the cnn poll this week, it's overwhelming that americans by far think that it was either illegal or unethical , and that's amazing because you can't get 90% of americans to agree on basically anything. but generally speaking, they agree on that and one other point to what you were saying about how this is not a relatable crime. i mean, we've seen this from trump from the very beginning, he has said. it's almost a campaign slogan. at this point. they are trying to get to you and i am standing in their way. that's that's what he tells his supporters at rallies. but the reality is that that's an argument has been using since the mueller investigation and the american people rejected it in 2020, and when you look at the numbers, general be speaking. uh the partisans are in their camps, but the independents are open minded about what this could mean. and so that's why the substance of what we will learn today is really critically important. it's not baked in politically the way that the trump team would imagine that that it was that it is. i think that i think that points critical. this chapter begins today. people have spent five days since we learned of the indictment saying what they think today we find out what prosecutors at least some of what prosecutors know. so hit the reset button and start today. we've also seen though in the last five days, the trump effect on american politics, which is your chairman of house committees on the republican side of the house, attacking a judge criticizing an indictment criticizing a process they know nothing about. they know nothing about attacking the rules attacking the norms attacking the system. that is trump's playbook. so that's the trump effect. but today we'll start to learn the details of what effect this might actually have on trump going forward. yes, he's the frontrunner today. yes. this will help him. it has helped him in the polling today and tomorrow next week. nobody votes for 10 or 11 months. we have a lot long way to go and kerry just as the legal experts on this panel it seems from what we know and again, we'll see what the actual facts are in a few minutes, but it seems pretty open and shut case in terms of the misdemeanor offenses here. the misdemeanor seems very clear . um from what we've heard about what everyone thinks will be in the indictment. it's that, um, falsification of business records. we know simply from the things that we've heard, michael cohen say publicly after his testimony in front of the grand jury and others that these payments were made to him and obviously disguised as legal. a as payment for legal fees, and there was a reference to a legal , um, retention agreement. none of that existed. it was all a fraud in that respect, so that side of the case seems very clear. and so the question is. you know what? what actually are the charge is going to be what is this all about? is it just going to be about misdemeanors? i mean, are we going through this entire risk to security costs of all of the secret service and the nypd and the court security and all of the attention that's being paid to it for just misdemeanors, or are they going be felonies charges. well is it going to pertain to one set of facts that exist or are there going to be multiple fat patterns that are part of the charges and these are all the things that you know we're wondering because what? there are substantial risks. there are risks that people will get hurt if there is some sort of altercation. following all of this, there are risks. if it's just misdemeanors that that harms the credibility of the justice system that all of this was due to just something small, so we'll have to see. the theory being obviously, as you know that that misdemeanor business fraud committed in the name of concealing a different crime can be a jumped up to make it a felony, but we'll see. we don't know what's in there yet, as mr trump is about to leave trump tower, tensions are running high as kerry was just alluding to the challenge of securing such a historic arraignment. that's next. you're doing businesess in an app driven multlti cloud wor. that's why you chohoose vm ware wiwith flexible multi cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control helps you keep your cloud options open. wha do you get from the morgan stanley more than talking. and aning. personalized plan to guide you through a changing world. yes. packing and shipping stores. two sided printing store where everything your small 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honeymoon. get started today with rex md dot com. cnn news central tomorrow at nine eastern. we're waiting for donald trump to leave trump tower for the manhattan criminal court building and his raymond. but first we have some breaking news just into cnn, a critical court loss for donald trump in the mar-a-lago documents case. cnn's katelyn polantz has details. what have you learned anderson? it's loss after loss after loss when donald trump has tried to block testimony of his advisors in federal court when they're called to the grand jury, especially in the january 6th criminal investigation, and again we just got word that a federal appeal heels court. has denied this emergency attempt of donald trump to try and wall off some of the testimony of his top advisers. top advisers, including people like his former white house chief of staff, mark meadows, that means now that the appeals court court has says no, we're not going to give you any emergency help here. donald trump. we now know that that means the justice department could try and get some of these top advisers into a grand jury. asking them questions and forcing them to answer about their conversations directly with donald trump during the presidency, just a reminder that this is another thing happening in criminal investigations at the same time separately from this new york case, so is it. just mark meadows? no actually, this this decision we believe from our sources would apply to any of the advisors that are close to him. there's a whole list of them where he was trying to block their answers people like the national security advisor. ken cuccinelli at the time, who was the department of homeland security secretary and other advisers stephen miller, dan scavino, it could apply to all of them if they have declined to answer questions with the grand jury. alright katelyn polantz news back to new york on the streets outside the new york courthouse and cnn, sherman procure says this is a obviously very complex security operation this morning. no it certainly is anderson, and there are indications that this could be happening at any moment. now we're seeing it. certainly uptake and police presidents. there are more officers here than i have seen the past several days. i want to show you anderson exactly what's going on now? outside the courthouse. there are court officers lining the entire street here at the front of the courthouse on center. on center street and then this just continues here down into this area, and when you look down, hogan place where as you know, i've been the past couple of nights. this is where the motorcade will wind up. this is the street where the former president will ultimately surrender where he will walk in and turned himself in and be arrested. by the manhattan district attorney's office. and as you can see, there are several law enforcement officials, high ranking officials all now waiting for the former president to arrive here. he will walk into the building, greeted by staff from the district attorney's office. he's going to be walked in by the secret service, taking up to the seventh floor. where they will process him. and then that is when his attorneys will learn what the indictment is what the charges are, and then we go from there, anderson uh, ramon prohibits. appreciate it. we'll check back with you shortly. i'm joined by former deputy commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism for the nypd john miller and former secret service agent jonathan wackrow. both cnn contributors. jonathan john, does he ever does somebody ever say to him? you are under arrest. when is he technically under arrest? does he get fingerprinted does there is there a mug shot, so he's going to meet a district attorney's investigator? not in new york city police detective. this is a civilian investigator who works for the d a s office who has law enforcement powers carries a badge and a gun. often they're retired police officers and that somebody who is going to be the arresting officer. first in american history for a former president of the united states. and think of the bizarre moment that you've just set up, which is someone has to say. mr president, you're under arrest, and you know, then they have to take his prints to the processing. wait for the prince to come back. the rest is kind of a routine process. just nothing routine about it for former president but routine. do we know about a mug shot? do we know for a fact there will be fingerprints, so there will be fingerprints. that's how you get into the system with the new york state department of criminal justice services, and the records will get what we call a nice number in new york state id numbers showing he's been arrested. charged with a felony. so all that's going to happen. the mug shot is the nuanced piece. it's part of the normal procedure. but in this case there are some arguments that a everybody knows what he looks like. we don't need his picture and be there's a high risk. it's going to leak out, which could be prejudicial to the case and against new york state law if there is not a legitimate law enforcement purpose handcuffs no handcuffs, and i'm going to pass to jonathan. that's the secret service decision, which is if you have to protect the handcuffs are a complication. jonathan this is a strange role for the secret service. explain what their job is here. well, their job is not as a coordinating entity that we typically see the secret service takes charge here. there they are not in charge. the nypd working with the new york state court officers, they're in charge of the protective structure, not only at the courthouse and around the courthouse but at the city at large. the secret service is primarily focused on protection . they're getting down to their core remit, making sure that getting the former president from point a to point b safely, allowing him to do the business in front of the court, and then returning is done as efficiently as possible, but as safely as possible. so when we talk about the processing of the former president, the fingerprinting the moment that he has actually taken into custody and under arrest that is going to be done under the watchful eye of the secret service, but they are not going to interjected all they've asked for no special accommodations. now we get to handcuffing. the secret service prefers never to have a protected in handcuffs should they need to take an immediate emergency action. some from the trump camp had said last week that the reason he didn't come up immediately to turn himself in. was the secret service wanted time is that is that accurate? do you know it's not? it's not accurate whatsoever. it's nonsensical, and i said it was nonsensical. here's why the secret service, you know their their mission is protection. they can take any protected to any location of world at any time. don't start, you know, dragging the secret service as an organization into the political back and forth. all right, jonathan wackrow appreciate it. what does donald trump thinking as he gets ready to surrender coming up next, a former trump insider weighs in. sunday night. we're trying something a little different. one wholole story. one e whole r . world's best journalists dig deeper into the stories. they can't ignore the whole story with anderson cooper premieres sunday, april 16th at eight on cnn. double check that that's pretty good. yes crying. are you taking that? wait? what was that ? that? no don't worry about that. here we go. question can greatly impact your future qualified to do this. what specially when it comes to your finances. do you have a question? are you a certified financial planner? yes i am a cfp professional committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's got to be a cfb . find your cfp professional and let's make a plan .org brush could lead to worse over time. time helps stop the clock on gum disease now. toothpaste is three 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publishing world to make it easy for you call 805 630741. said live pictures from outside trump tower. sometimes soon donald trump will turn himself in at a new york city courthouse, becoming the first former president to ever face criminal charges, one of his advisers, describing his mood ahead of today's arraignment, as quote, defiant and focused, joining us now someone very familiar with donald trump, former acting white house chief of staff mulvaney good to see you, sir. what what do you make of it all your former boss, president trump former president trump heading to the manhattan criminal courthouse today to be arraigned. yeah jake, i think the fines and focused has probably consistent with what i would expect. my guess is there was a short period of anger and frustration and shock after the entertainment was originally handled down, handed down, and then the team led by mr trump himself immediately switched into pr control, which is okay. if we're going to go to new york. we're going to make it look good for us. we're going to turn this into a pr event for donald trump. it doesn't surprise me that he's proposing to speaking of national address tonight, um he's really good at this. he's really good. he's a great showman. so my guess is he's trying to take this but can only be perceived as a negative and i'm sure he perceives it as a negative as well. he doesn't like being charged in the crime, but to make it a positive, both from a pr perspective and a political perspective. we hear a lot of republicans defending donald trump criticizing the district attorney and on and on one thing you don't really hear is any of his defenders saying that he didn't do this that he didn't pay hush money to stormy daniels or have hush money paid . he didn't have business records falsified. that argument is seldom really made. yeah well, of course not that many of his political folks, including myself, have any indication as to how the books were handled at the trump organization, so that that's not unusual. but, yeah, a lot of republicans are silent on that a lot of democrats. jake have been silent. look, a lot of my democrat friends are very privately concerned that you know this is a situation where a deer a ran for office saying, if you elect me, i will indict somebody. um where is the next state a g and texas or oklahoma or south carolina going to run for office saying, look, if you if you elect me i will indict this democrat leader, so it's a it's a very unusual time. it doesn't surprise me that folks are coming to the president's aid, but not really speaking to some of the other issues. do you expect whatever political boost this this creates for donald trump within republican circles? do you expect it to last long term, especially given that there are potentially going to be other charges and other cases. cnn just reported that trump's team lost and appealed to shield some of his closest aides from testifying in the special counsel's probe into his involvement in january six. yeah i think the boost that he's going to get in the short term, even the midterm for within the republican primaries is undeniable. i think that's there. the sympathy is there. you're seeing that in the polling data, you're seeing that in the money that he's raised, and in the new donors he has added to his cause. and just the last couple of days. the better question i think goes to the november 2024 election. i still think it's uphill battle for him. but i guess you could sort of theorized a circumstance where the trial on this particular charges a month or so before november, 2024 if he's found not guilty, being able to turn that him being able to turn that into something positive politically, to make himself out to be a victim of a political vendetta, so it's really hard to predict politics in general in this country right now, other than divisiveness, but it's especially hard to predict donald trump. alright former acting what i asked you for staff muk baldini. thanks so much joining us now, former white house deputy press secretary sarah mathews along with olivia troy, who served as an adviser to former vice president mike pence. sarah trump spent last night huddled with his lawyers at trump tower, one lawyer said this morning. the president is resilient, upbeat and is as determined as ever to fight off drivers of injustice. i'm not sure if i completely by that he's resilient and upbeat. but in any case, the former president has also been on an all caps, truth social social media tear, as in one post. he attacks former attorney general bill barr his own attorney general saying, quote. why does fox keep putting on bill barr? he said he did investigate the 2020 election, but he didn't have the guts to properly do so. and on and on. what do you think is going through donald trump's head right now. i think it's truth social is revealing of where his mindset actually is, which is he's panicking. they're going to try to spin this into a win the trump team, they're going to try to say that you know, this is a good thing for him in the sense of their fundraising that his supporters are rallying around behind him, but the truth is that we know this isn't a good day for him, um donald trump is feeling the walls closing in. he's finally being held accountable for, um, you know, potential crime he may have committed. and so this certainly isn't a good positive day for them, but he's probably going to go out there and try to put on a fake bravado and try to rally up his supporters when he gives an address whether that's later today around eight p.m. eastern time or if he does end up making remarks before after the arraignment, so we'll just have to see how he handles it. but there's no way that this is a good day for him or his team. olivia as sarah noted, the walls are closing, and this is just the first wall of potentially many. there are special counsel jack smith has two investigations into donald trump when it comes to classified documents when it comes to january, 6th down in atlanta, georgia, the fulton county district attorney is looking to trump trying to steal that state during the election, not to mention of course, civil cases going on. how do you? how do you do you think this is just the first domino of many? what do you think i do? i think this is the first step finally towards accountability. and i think for many of us who have been out here speaking the truth calling things out. very honestly, i think you know we're all sitting here saying it's about time. i mean, michael cohen. he's sacrificed a lot. he has been out there telling the truth for years now, and i think you know this is someone who went to jail. he paid his time so to americans out there, and i was watching a pole with republican voters who are saying this is all politically driven all of this because their parenting the talking points that are republican leaders are out there saying time and time over and over again, without even really waiting for the facts to play out on this. i would say if you had broken the law, and you had gone to jail for this you would and somebody else had broken that same law and you had carried that out breaking that law at their request. you would want that person to be held accountable. and that is why this first case matters to me. i think that that that is all part of what this country is based on its based on rule of law and our principles and saying that no one is above the law and they should be held accountable. alright olivia and sarah, thanks so much. we're just seconds away from from history and former president trump leaving for 100 center seat center street where he is said to surrender to authorities. but the manhattan hush money case is not the only thing on the president's mind. we have more cnn special live coverage. we're going to squeeze in this quick break. stay with us. tomorrow history in the making beginning today, we'r're bringing you the 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different kind of history. any minute the former president of united states heads for his motorcade and for the manhattan criminal courts building. we're just now seeing a flurry of activity around trump tower. police motorcade, drivers getting in position to make the drive up 56 street. i'm anderson cooper, you're watching special live cnn coverage, the arrest and arraignment of donald trump's and i'm jake tapper in washington, d c. soon donald trump will be shepherded by u. s secret service agents as well as nypd officers away from his new york. home to 100 centers street in the southern tip of manhattan . when he gets there, he will surrender. he will be booked. he will be fingerprinted. he will appear before a judge. he will enter a plea of not guilty. he will do that personally, according to his trial team, not through a lawyer, he will likely then be released on his own recognizance. and then mr trump will step outside and we'll get a reminder. as to how he is no ordinary defendant. he will then head to his mar-a-lago compound in florida for a planned primetime speech. cnn's jeff zeleny is at trump tower for us and jeff donald trump due to leave any moment. tell us what the scene is like there. jake there definitely is a sense that movement is imminent. i will turn to you and show you he'll be coming out the side door of trump tower there that is the entrance to the residents of trump tower on 56th street will be making his way up 50 strict street to madison avenue and then heading down to lower manhattan. so there is a sense of anticipation that his movement is coming. he spent the day i'm told up in his office on the 26th floor. of trump tower huddled with again his political and legal advisors. but i'm also told the former president has been thinking about the other cases that are pending potentially before him. not just the one here in manhattan that georgia case a couple of cases in washington, and how all of it will sort of play into his 2024 presidential campaign from scheduling purposes from scheduling rallies to, you know, just simply appearing at this case here and if there are others in the future, but one advisor told me that these cases will be a constant rallying cry. for him. so, jake, that underscores the point here that his court cases his legal cases will be a soundtrack of his presidential campaign. as we turn here again, he'll be he's expected to be coming out of those doors shortly. his aides say he's been working on two speeches one he is going to essentially give a one line speech. at least that's what his advisers are sort of telegraphing to us at the courthouse. then he's going to be giving a full throated defense tonight at mar-a-lago. okay? alright we're told that donald trump is at the elevator door and about to come outside. i believe one of his top aides, jason miller has been sighted. cnn's paula reid is outside the manhattan criminal courts building and paula, you'll forgive me if i interrupt when mr trump appears, but tell us more about the trump legal team with whom you've been texting all morning. what have they been saying to you about the pending indictment? legal team is expanding yesterday, they added todd blanche, a very experienced defense attorney to the team of questions, though, about what this means. is this some sort of shake up, but it appears jake to just be the logical next step. this has gone from being an investigation to being a full blown criminal prosecution. the former president is going to need all the help he can get. also some questions about what this edition meant for joe tacopina, who has been the most forward facing member of the defense team tells me he is still on the team. he expects to be the lead counsel at today's hearing, which could make sense because it has only been on the case for about 24 hours. but amid all these questions about who is the lead, i will note that it's the other lawyer, susan nicholas has been the one who has been filing motions to the judge. in this case, so look , there's plenty of work for everyone on this team. the former president has historically had lawyers who defend them in court and then also lawyers who defend him on tv. tacopina was someone who can do both. todd blanche is a necklace or fantastic attorneys who can help the former president as he moves through this case, possibly even successfully. but once they say this indictment later today, they may even potentially at additional people. once they know what exactly this case is all about. all right, paula reed. thank you so much. this reporting just in from kristen holmes. dana bash, it says well, it's unclear if trump will have his mug shot taken the campaign. remember he's already declared he's running for president. 2024 is already discussing creating trump merchandise using either the actual mug shot taken or a digitally created version. i mean, that is how otherworldly. this entire thing is whether or not he gets a mug shot. they're going they're they're talking about. maybe we should stage a mug shot, i think otherworldly is the perfect way to put it, jake because i was just thinking that it maybe it's a good time to put this in the context. of american history and, frankly of human history. this is normally a time when somebody would feel shame would feel fear would feel trepidation. and maybe he is feeling that on the inside. but the political thing to do for most normal politicians. and this has happened throughout history in a time like this. would be to be more apologetic to have less bravado to be more contrite. and because this is donald trump. who has made an entire lifetime not just in politics, but in business before that, out of doing the opposite. bleeding into his problems. we are seeing something very different, um, to say that that is not normal, never in mind. the whole notion of an indictment and arrest of the former president isn't normal is important context. shortsightedness of it all. i think that really stands out to me with the trump campaign. this is often the case. they look at what is right in front of them, not what is coming around the corner. and in this case, this manhattan district attorney a case against trump is really just the beginning of this story . and when we think about the historical impact of it all, uh i from my perspective. that we cannot divorce this from the big picture here. which is that trump? yes the first american president to be indicted the first american president to actually face charges. but he would also be the first american president to face the prospect of many other charges as well. and that is really what the long term issue is for the trump campaign and putting out merch might get them likes on twitter, but it doesn't help them deal with that broader problems. also the point. i want to make about the otherworldliness of the situation, and that is the trump. supporters the mega base the congresswoman marjorie taylor, greens of the world who are just right or died, no matter what, donald trump does there, there behind it, and she just said to a conservative tv host, we will stand in support of our very incredible amazing best president in history of my lifetime and innocent innocent. and i mean, think about gosh, think about this. president trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history being arrested today. nelson mandela was arrested, served time in prison. jesus jesus was arrested and murdered by the roman government. this is no doubt representative of a certain part of the trump base. john kane. yes but is there any truth when you pull back the curtain right, comparing donald trump to jesus or nelson mandela? i'll leave the common sense of the american people to deal with that one. i'll keep my mouth shut on that one. but the idea, marjorie taylor greene says. let's protest in favor of donald trump in manhattan. outside this courthouse, she showed up. she stayed for 10 minutes and she left. she got the pictures she needs for her social media and to be on fox and newsmax and i, and then she left. why would she stay there for the day with the real people who may be out there for whatever reason supporting donald trump. they have every right to do so, but back back to the earlier conversation here, look, you know jason miller, boris epstein, donald trump. he is presumed innocent, and he deserves that from everybody here, everybody that is the rule of law that he constantly ignores, but that is the bedrock of our society. but jason miller, boris epstein, this is a liar surrounded by liars. sorry but that's what we have seen. if you judge a man by the company he keeps he has surrounded by liars. they have repeatedly lied. you can't lie in court. you can't lie in court. he enters a new face today where they prosecutors has a very high bar. this this prosecutor is indicting a former president, united states. he better well, prove it when they released that indictment today, but in court, you can't lie. you can't lie in politics. you can lie on cable television. it's hard to lie in court, especially if the documents prove you wrong. that's been something trump has never understood and never appreciated that the court is a different ball game for him. and he tries to play the outside game in public and wants to take it into the courtroom and his lawyers are like no, that doesn't work here. abby's point , though about other cases coming, it could very well be that by the fall, he is charged in three different jurisdictions . in four cases. we have georgia we have this special counsel in the federal cases. that said. we should not forget that other than former arkansas governor asa hutchinson and a couple of others, the republican party is still not only standing with him. just out there over and over again supporting him now, if these charges keep coming in these cases. what will the long term effect be? we've seen donald trump go up in popular votes. we have seen him defy the odds. will this will the forever trumpers stick with him? yes will gop voters who support him? but i have had enough going in another direction. i think that's the question we're going to look at in the year and logistical matter as these criminal actions begin to stack up if he's indicted in these other investigations, the drag on his time on his attention and on his resources cannot be overstated. to defend yourself in manhattan criminal court on this case is one thing and he can go through today is the only thing he has to deal with his orchestrating and kind of stage managing this whole event that is going to become overwhelming when he may be facing indictment in federal court in d. c. may be facing indictment in state court in georgia, um the legal team will keep growing demands on his time to review evidence to prepare for testimony to moderate his statements, which could be conflicting and caused him all sorts of problems and print venues. um this is not a trifling matter, and it could very easily overtake him as the months and years. go on. well it's this is a long process. i mean, i think to a point that was made earlier is this is the beginning of a really, really long process. if we just take this one particular case, which we still need to see what the actual charges are. there's going to be emotions practice. he's going to make motions to dismiss the case, which i think will have some credible arguments in them, depending on how they actually charge the case and whether there's felonies and underlying crimes that are implicated in the actual case, he's going to make motions there that motions practice can continue. and so all of these things are going to be running concurrently at the same time, and even though as a practical matter, we think, oh, well. the other prosecutors are probably watching this case and paying attention. actually i tend to think that each of these investigations is being conducted independently. that's the way it should work and, uh, and the federal cases on its own timeline and this local cases, obviously going to be anything. andy almost made me laugh when you said that. his lawyers are going to be trying to, um sort of regulate his comments. i was talking to one of his close allies this morning who literally laughed and use language that i can't use on, um , family friendly television saying, you know, good luck with that. when it comes to donald trump. nobody can get him to do that. but one thing also is about his connection to the litigious nature of you know what's going on here? he has. during his time in business, particularly in new york. for decades, he has become incredibly familiar with the legal system because he has tried to use it to his benefit, and he has been on the defendant side of it. i mean, it hasn't gotten this far, but he is incredibly familiar with the legal system because of his but that his background very different systems. you know the system of being a defendant or a plaintiff in a civil trial is very much more at your and your attorneys, you know that you have a lot more cards to play in terms of timing in terms of the agenda, the sort of motions that you file only in criminal court. it is literally your freedom that is at stake. um and you you really have no choice but to respond to what the prosecution is doing and try to manage the judges. best thing just that you were bringing up that. i think, uh, people should be prepared for here is that this could take a long time to actually resolve and in the meantime, we may not know the outcome of this case. while at the same time he could be facing other indictments, and so the stacking of the donald trump right there. i'm sorry, but we just saw donald trump walk out of trump tower and into a waiting limo and there we see him getting into his car from the helicopter shot from wcbs. tv in new york city, and he is on his way. it's about four miles from midtown, where he is at trump tower down to the manhattan court building, which is in the southern part of manhattan island. i'm sure we'll bring that. tape back again to show it to people. go ahead, abby. i'm sorry i interrupted, you know, just just just to point out that this could be a stacking of indictments against him. it could be a stacking of allegations against him, and they may not be a resident. think one of the arguments politically that his aides make is that, uh, you know if alvin bragg is humiliated in this case , it really undermines the other cases. well, we may not know for a little while and those other cases are going to proceed because those prosecutors have to make their own charging decisions about how this goes forward. right and again, donald trump on his way to court. jamie said it best earlier, he will be under arrest in an hour or so. that's not a good thing. i'm sorry. maybe donald trump knows no shame. you mentioned that earlier. maybe donald trump is incapable of shame. but in terms of defiant, resilient, upbeat, we keep reading these words. i'm sorry. i'm sorry. even if he's 100% innocent, you are not upbeat when you are going to court to be fingerprinted and charged whether your john doe or donald trump whether you're mine worker or the former president of the united states. it is not a good thing to have to go into a courthouse and face a judge. and again, he's been attacking the judge attacking the prosecutor attacking the prosecutor's wife. you can do that in the court of public opinion. you can't do it inside the walls of a courtroom. you cannot sustain that case, no question and what i meant by knows, no shame was more about, um, the political forward facing . plan and the entire strategy which is that, you know, go back in time in throughout history, for the most part, certainly in this country when somebody is facing what we are looking at on our screen right now what we will hear in a court of law. it is a big political negative. any sense of the word absolutely for him because of who he is because of how he is running because of how he has run and the supporters he has built up. he is turning it into something different. we should note also that this is not donald trump's first brush with the law. the justice department sued him and his father in 1973 for refusing to rent to african americans that ended with the trumps, uh, agreeing to join a consent decree. he did not admit guilt, but he did. they did change their practice the trump team, anderson has said that they are not going to negotiate. he is not going to plead down. ah that there will be very different this time. anderson it is an extraordinary scene. we were watching john miller, you have covered citizen donald trump as a young reporter in new york city. this is a very different new york city that donald trump is driving through the streets of it is and you know, this is obviously a faithful and historic journey. you're seeing a motorcade, which is, um, being led by nypd highway patrol. then built largely out of the secret service. um but you're also seeing a route that is not a frozen route that other traffic that you're seeing in other places. um not the not the phalanx of motorcycles that were used to, um, not the size of the motorcade that he's used to, um , in his in his prior trips to new york. and he's also he's also destination he had in mind traveling through a city, which he is no longer the popular figure he once was in well being in and he is leaving a building that bears his name passing other buildings that bear his name. um and on the way to court , literally to be arrested by a district attorney's investigator and charged with serious crimes. and 100 center street, karen. i mean, this is it's a building, you know? well, this is where guilty and the innocent go to face to face justice. and that is what is happening to this defendant today explain a little bit about what will happen when he gets there, so when he arrives, he will be first processed arrest process by the da's office, the law enforcement arm of the da's office, which are these retired police officers, who are d, a investigators, and so he's not under arrest. now he's under arrest when he enters that building. yes when he enters that building, he will be considered in their custody. he'll be arrested. the paperwork will will be done if it if it hasn't already been done. i mean, this is a very quick normally, arrest processing takes several hours. so if the arraignment is scheduled for 2 15, i think that they have already streamlined much of it, and then they will take him to court where he will be told what the charges are by the judge, and he will be arraigned on those charges and that he will enter a plea of not guilty. the prosecution may or may not. file a statement of facts here. sometimes they do so that we can know more about what's what's going on. it will be adjourned for not only motion practice but discovery. so in new york within 15 days of arraignment or complicated case, it's 30. more days of arraignment, which this is, you have to turn over all paperwork that's in your possession. the prosecution does so he will have the entirety of the prosecution's file in very short order, and that's something we should look at. is he going to release that or parts of it so that that he can try to have the defense attorneys of the world pick it apart and again, try to try this case in public, and that could be something. that a judge imposes a gag order on maybe not on his words, but perhaps they could impose some kind of order limiting his ability to release the discovery that will be certainly given to him in short order for griffin. i mean, you've spent so much time with him as director of communications in the white house. it just starting to see these images him driving through this city, which he knows so well has driven down the fdr drive, which he's driving down right now, looking at buildings probably scoping them out. what do you think is going through his mind today? can't imagine to john's point. i've written in a motorcade with him more times than i can count. and this is a much smaller motorcade than the former president is used to. he's not in the beast he's not wearing in a car with the presidential seal, and i'm sitting here as a former staffer thinking. glad to not be in the car with him. i just as much as we've all speculated on his mood and how he feels about this. i know him well enough to say he's not happy about this. this is a man that despite his actions does care about legacy, and now his legacy will be regardless of where this goes to be the first former president to have been indicted, and that's got to be weighing on him as he's driving in a motorcade through his him his hometown. that doesn't mean his team is not going to be looking for every way to spin this to their advantage. they have reportedly raised $8 million. you know, he's going to give his speech tonight. he may make remarks at the courthouse. but this has got to be sobering moment for donald extraordinary. there's no fans lining the sides of the roads. there's no supporters cheering him on saying, you know, we support you . this is an average day in new york city, where life of the city goes on. he's just it's just a couple of cars on the road driving down the fdr drive, and everyone else is going about their business. that's that's our system. in a way he's going to court. and a lot of people got up this morning and went to court. um if you're around the world trying to make sense of this, this is america. nobody's above the law. nobody's beneath its protections. it's not russia . it's not iran when he gets there like you said, he's going to get all the treatment all the fair process. he's going to get the entire file handed to him and he will have a chance to defend himself. but people go to court every day in this country and they face prosecutors. i think sometimes are too tough and too mean and they do the best they can. and that's what's happening here, and it's a it's a sobering moment. i'm sure for his family. i'm sure people who have worked for him and for the whole world, but this is this is someone who has played at the edges of lawlessness, his whole career and the ice in this case has broken under him. his wife is not with him. he's alone in this, ellie, what are your thoughts as you see this motorcade? well, this is a new chapter in donald trump's life, and it will be a long and painful chapter. that's just the reality here. cases like this will last months, if not years, and this could be the first of up to four of these cases that are happening at the same time. there's just no way out of this. you have to go through this process. he's not going to plead guilty. i think that's safe. his lawyers have said that he's not the pleading guilty type and so forth, talking about trials in one or more case this is the new reality. he's going to be going into courthouses. he's going to be going through security. he's going to be sitting at defendants tables. for the foreseeable future. but what i think what i think is important here. we'll find out shortly is when we actually see the indictment as everyone's been alluding to in talking about what's contained in the indictment, if it's if it's if it's the four corners of the document. we think it's going to be based on the stormy daniels. it's going to be a different outcome this afternoon. then if it's more expansive, if it's going to be something that maybe get dismissed in a preliminary motion. what how is that going to be different than if it's tried out and, you know, impounded for months and years, you're talking about months and years. this could be over in a matter of months and a few motions. and then what does that do to donald trump to be clear? if he wins the motions based on the stormy daniels campaign finance, there still will be the misdemeanor charge for falsifying business records. but those are legally safe, but but my point out what is it? how different will it be right if i agreed that right politically huge if he wins here, karen yes . so just in addition to the four cases that everybody is talking about in three weeks, he will be on trial down the street in manhattan for rape for civil , but it's make no mistake about it. that is a rape case with a defamation peace afterwards, but but he will be on trial for rape in three weeks time. so judges are going to have to schedule deal with each other's schedules with that, then come october 2nd . he also has another trial where the attorney general of the state of new york, tisha james, she has brought this sweeping $250 million case regarding the valuation of assets. the one that was and is an open investigation criminally in the manhattan d. a s office as well. that case, the civil part of that cases going to trial october 2nd. he's going to be very busy, not just in the criminal cases, but i think also in the civil matters that he has to be involved in. he is literally minutes away now from the office of the manhattan district attorney it's interesting when we talk about history where he's going, this is the most vaunted, highly regarded local district attorney's office, perhaps in the nation. it is the place that where thomas dewey served as the d a before he went on to become governor as a mob busting prosecutor before he ran for president. it is the place where one of his proteges hogan, for which hogan place the street that donald trump is being brought to was named. was district attorney for 32 years, bringing mob cases. corruption cases, cases against high profile defendants. the place where bob morganthal assert for another 30 years, um, and a place that is next to the federal prosecutors, the most sophisticated, um, prosecutor's office in the country for things like racketeering, complex white collar crimes and. impressive cases with big name defendants with a reputation for impartiality. what you have here is, um, an interesting set of prosecutors, uh, based on alvin bragg, and that has made him a target for donald trump. but it's the office where where karin agness philo spent most of her professional career. and it is remarkable. i mean, i commented on this a moment ago, but he the many times he's come to new york as president. you know, you would expect to see dozens of police vehicles escorting the motorcade a motorcade pi three or four times this size and also, traffic on the sides of him stopped and i just knowing the man i have to imagine it's a bit jarring for him to be seeing. it's only been back to new york a handful times in his post presidency. um kind of seeing the world has moved on. the country has moved on. he's no longer president. and now he's going to a courthouse as a former president without the pomp and circumstance of the presidency struck just by the life of the city continuing around him. he's just a guy in a suv with a couple of other suvs heading to court, as van said, as many people are today in various parts of the country, shimon proxy pies is standing by. outside the building where the former president is heading shimon, explain. what we are about to see. this two minutes any minute now, anderson we expect to see motorcade pull up . donald trump's out of the suv and enter the manhattan da's office, where he will be placed under arrest. you will be considered in custody. you can see the secret service agents here on the ground and the nypd officers all up. across here, just waiting for the motorcade to arrive. we can hear some helicopters now in the air over us, but it's at any minute now that we expect for the motorcade to arrive here and for the former president to be taken into custody and placed under arrest. it's just an incredible scene out here. anderson there are hundreds and hundreds of cameras just pointed at that door, where they expect the former president to walk in trying to get that shot of him walking into this building, and we now see one of the first officers arriving and now the suvs here, pulling up anderson. and they are pulling up here now to the door. can you guys stand back and we see several of the suvs here? anderson pulling up. to the corner, and the former president donald trump is about to step out of this suv and enter the manhattan d a s office , where he will be placed under arrest. and here it is, from what we can see. side couple of the secret service agents now getting out of their cars. here down the street on hogan place in front of order. manhattan th always there he is. into the crowd. there he is, we can see him here, anderson. in his back to us, and we could see him slowly walk over the head shot that we're looking at now of the former president, walking down with several of his secret service officers walking into the building. karen you're saying as soon as he enters that building, he is technically under arrest, who will be in the custody of the d a. s office investigators, obviously with his secret service guard as well and he will be told he is under arrest, and he is in their custody at this time at this moment at 1:24 p.m. eastern time. donald j. trump is under arrest. yes, he is. is going several floors up in this building to a district attorney's office. where the detective squad is there's a room there, where the electronic machine that captures fingerprints electronically is there against one of the walls. there's a small cell. uh he will not be handcuffed. he will not be placed in the cell. capture the prints. and take the former president and his legal team. to a room to wait where they may be able to read that indictment the cell. he will he will. he will see the cell in the room where they do the print capture. if they use the room, they're planning to and as extraordinary as this all is and as much as this is a spectacle. this is the same process that hundreds if not thousands of people go through every week in this very office. this is how our criminal justice system works, and you can see one of the challenges throughout this case for the d a . for the cops for the courts is to is going to be how to treat this as close to any normal case. as humanly possible. we've seen some unusual, but i think reasonable accommodations with the potentially decision not to take a mug shot and with the decision, potentially not to handcuff him, but beyond that, it's a challenge for our legal system. how do we treat this? like any other state of new york versus defendant so let's just go through the details on the process the finger traditionally the process fingerprinting and mug shot. um what? what will happen? what won't happen here? so you'll have the fingerprinting. um the mug shot, not actual fingerprinting with ink, not fingerprinting with ink. it's an electronic capture . you put your fingers down on it. it reads the prints, and it sends them electronically to albany. the purpose of that is to make sure that your prints are captured and that they run them in all the make sure you're not wanted in new york or somewhere else for another crime. that's a bit of a moot point here. but as as ali said, they're trying to go as close to buy the book as you can. given the circumstances here now, that's difficult because you generates a rap sheet. that's right. so generates a rap sheet that has been arrested. charged with a crime is assigned a nice and number new york state id number that he is and arrested felon at this point, karen, you said when he walked in that building, and that's when he is technically under arrest. who is it? who says to him? i don't know if they say mr president or mr trump, you are under arrest. well the definition of arrest is you're in custody, right? somebody's custody. and so in the moment that he walks in, he's in the custody of them what they invented. d a investigator will say the words you're under arrest, and these are the charges against you and ask, ask him certain pedigree information unless that's already been pre filled out or prearranged pedigree. information. what do you mean name address? mhm birth. so, george, i didn't. i didn't know i couldn't see what does this look like secret services walking in his lawyers accompany him in there. how many people get to go in that room with him that one lawyer tool as it looks like there's a bunch of service members there, but i didn't see any. so you've got looking staff got secret service, one member of the new york police department. one um, court officer, and they will stay with him through the da's office. i'll defer to karen on where the attorneys can go, attorneys. you usually you leave your client with with law enforcement and then you meet them again in court. so that's how it's normally done. and just to, to ellie's point that the manhattan d a s office handles about 50,000 cases per year, and many of them are felonies. and so and this this surrendering and turn yourself in after indictment is often done in long term investigations. so this process is not unusual. this is something that the manhattan d. a s office knows how to do. they have this investigative staff that's about 80 law enforcers. women who worked there and they do this type of work they investigate and they are well equipped and know how to how to process, saying his attorneys are likely not with him at this time during this process, that is correct. yes very lonely feeling. well i was going to say, i mean, alyssa, how often has this man. been a without political advisors without you know, some sort of inner circle acolytes around him virtually never, and i have to imagine that he's noticing that feeling right now because even a minor event in his presidency and immediate post presidency will travel with as many as a dozen people around him from press staffers to you, nobody men to lawyers and so on. and we were noticing, at least from our vantage point. we didn't see what looked like traditional staff, whether campaign or otherwise get out. so that's got to be a jarring and lonely feeling. it's been a long time since donald trump has been in a public place without a core group around. you agree with that. that's what i was listening. we're talking about that. i watched when the van when the door when he walked out of the car, you got out of truck. it looked like the service went with him, and then i didn't see anybody else getting out of the vans or trucks and lessen our kind of guessing who was along for the ride. who might have been with the trip, and it's hard to tell who had accompanied him. or if you don't even want to go. if the lawyers say no, you're not coming. you're not allowed to come. um you know, so seriously, who's gonna be in the courtroom? yeah i just think at a human level those of us who spent a lot of time ah, with families, you know with folks, you know. you never feel more helpless. then in that situation, the government is bigger than you. the state is bigger than you. you you you don't have power and control. you're looking at people who can control your life. and it's a very bad feeling, and i think that there's really nothing to celebrate here, even those of us who are opponents of his politics and his policies. um you know this is a is a sobering moment. i think for him and there's a lot of pain that comes as as you go through this process. there's pain for your painting this marriage. there's pain for your kids. he's a grandfather was a lot of human stuff that the cameras can capture. but i can tell you having spent time with defendants. this is one of the worst moment of anybody's life. think think about this. we went through two impeachments. this president went through. two impeachments and i would venture to say nothing he experiences like when you just experience when he walked in that door, just want to show the image of him leaving trump tower. that's the image we have just now seeing for the first time. well in that car ride was something like 20 minutes over. we don't i don't know if we know whether anyone was riding with him. if anything, i would think it would be an attorney, but that's a very long and lonely car ride i've i've traveled with with the former president, whether on marine one or in the motorcade before where if he's in a mood, he's going to want someone to talk to. if he's upset about something, he's going to want somebody to bounce ideas on how to respond to it, and i think that was probably a time that it was sinking in for him. what exactly he was walking. i would just say, look, this is a president who is normally got a smile on his face his upbeat right he's he's he's kind of indignant, very sober, sober picture. donald trump right there. even you know, he's kind of got his fist up and he was waving to the crowd. um you know, it was a list of just said he's he's. it's a it's got to be. it had to be a tough, tough wondering what you see. when you see that picture. he looks sad. yeah, he looks sad. he looks like, um ah, the weight of its hitting him. and you know. just as a human being. i don't i don't take don't take joy. i don't like the prison system. i don't like what it does to people. i don't like this process. i don't take any celebration and seeing him looking that way he looks at now doesn't mean that he accountability is not code. we don't know what he's going to be charged with. there's a lot more buck, but at that moment that is not a conqueror. ah that is a granddad having a very bad day and in terms of what what is going on right now with the former president, and before we get this if we can get the video of him leaving his vehicle, leaving his suv entering the building just for that overhead shot if we can cue up again, what do you how long is this process? john miller that you were talking about the fingerprinting. the what would have been a mug shot, though unlikely to happen here karen was saying is, you know, a lot of this could have been done in advance. the forms could be filled out. everything is ready, albany. to be standing by the expedite the prince. in this case, it might not be that long. but they have booked time for it. um you know the idea of getting there at 1 34 to 30 or 2 15 arrangement? um you know, meant there was going to be time given to filling out the forms, taking the prints moving through the courthouse. um it's interesting. i'm picking up of what van was talking about. a unique experience because. karen used the term he is in custody. what that means in legal terms is he is not free to go. there's no throwing my arms up and say, that's it. i'm not doing this. i'm walking out of here. he's under arrest, and he won't be free to go today until a judge says so by setting either whatever conditions or no conditions at all to release him on his own recognizance. let's just look at that. that image again the video of him arriving at the courthouse. um. try to get the overhead shot or whatever image we actually karen karen. well while we're trying to get that image, um, karen, we're talking about when his attorneys would get the actual account to actually get the indictments. they would probably receive it at some point before they actually reconnect with the former president. if he's going through this processing, you said, it's very possible they will not connect with him again until they are in the courtroom . i expect that the attorneys spoke to him at length before this told him what to expect and told him do not talk, right. anything you say can and be well used against you in a court of law. so he is in custody. he should not talk other than to answer basic questions. he helpfully isn't feeling chatty or or anything else, and because law enforcement will write down every word, he says. and we this may even be recorded for all we know this entire arrest processing so we wanted the his attorneys are saying, do not talk. do not say anything. don't make any speeches. don't disparage the prosecutor or the judge that sort of thing. technical questions. let me just go to cnn's katelyn polantz. she's on the phone from inside the courthouse, she's on the 15th floor and 100 center street explained where you are, what the scene is. yeah, anderson is a small group of reporters that were allowed into the 15th floor were right now. still photographers dropped behind the barricade in a part of the play on the floor. this is before that trump is going to come to next whenever he goes into the actual room when he is before the judge when he issues that plea of not guilty. we are expecting him based on what his attorney said earlier, come to the cameras and make a brief statement. he has not done so. obviously we're still we just got here. we're just waiting on him to come up here. i will say is we're talking about the processing here. looks like i was told before this that as they were discussing the logistics of the actual choreography and visit, trump had expressed some interest in actually having his mug shot taken. obviously they have been chewing a lot of this through the lens of, um what it would look like when it comes to the 2024 campaign. how to use it their advantage when it comes to fundraising, and they believe having that mug shot taken could actually be beneficial to them, so we don't know that that's happen. opening obviously, but that is part of the mindset into how they're looking not just from a legal perspective. but also from a campaign and political protection. we'll see what it is, he says before cameras, his attorneys, his legal team and his aides have been obviously concerned that it could be something that could maybe not help this case in this situation. yeah kaitlin's tuned. we are moments away from history . donald trump appearing before judge is a criminal defendant is going through processing right now more cnn's special coverage right after a quick break. hey, man, you could save hundreds for safe driving 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sentiment that we've heard that he's feeling and let's take a look at this, he says. heading to lower manhattan, the all caps. wow, they're going to arrest me. the former president writes, can't believe this is happening in america. marga of course, maga is his make america great again. movement really the anthem, the rallying cry for his candidacy, but as we know from covering him for all these many years, these social message postings often offer the best insight into what he is actually thinking. and there is, you know, for all the bravado. for all the trumpeting how much money they've raised. there was a real sense of apprehension for him, leaving the comforts and security of trump tower to walking into the arrested and alone and we're getting a first glimpse of this. this could be the message he also delivered when he is at least expected to speak very, very briefly at the courthouse before again delivering a full throated response. a defense of these charges tonight in mar-a-lago, jake, former candidate who ran for president amidst crowds yelling for the locking up of his then democratic opponent, hillary clinton has been arrested himself joining us now . adam kaufman, a former prosecutor in the manhattan district attorney's office. thanks so much for joining us, adam appreciate it. um i would think that district attorney alvin bragg knows that this better be a clear cut case given the unprecedented nature of such an arrest and arraignment, what's your take on the case that he will likely present? i agree with you, jake. and thanks for having me on today. um you know, this is an unprecedented exercise of prosecutorial authority over a former president, and you really have to hope that, um it's a case with some substance to it some heft to it, and i think we're all waiting for the arrangement so we can see the indictment and analyze. um what it says. and what the charges are. i think back to the incident that you just mentioned of rudy giuliani on stage leading chants of lock her up about hillary clinton. and i remember arguing with friends and saying, you know you don't you don't lock up. she may have broken the law. but you don't you don't lock up a presidential candidate for a sort of technical violation for something where there's not really a criminal intent or or a direct harm. and so i'm very eager to see what this indictment says, and whether it speaks to some sort of substantial fraud. substantial attempt to subvert an election process or something that is, um i hope more than some entries in the books and records of the trump organization and, you know , new york supreme court judge juan merchant who was presiding over this case. what can you tell us about him? you know, i don't know, juan very well. i have not appeared in front of him. we started together in the da's office back in the mid nineties. we were classmates, um , as a colleague, juan was always very. he was a good colleague. he's a thoughtful prosecutor. he did a good job on his cases. you could count on him to cover a court part or an assignment for you if you needed it. um as a judge, he was in charge of the mental health court, which are cases that present their own sort of challenges, you know, and i think he showed himself during the trump organization. why silberg? well the trump organization trial to be a thoughtful judge who listened to both sides gave everyone a fair chance to express themselves and then acted deliberately to make rulings on the law. right now. individuals watching cnn right now. we'll see. um they're looking inside the manhattan courthouse. and tell us adam kaufman, former prosecutor with the district attorney's office. what exactly is going on right now? do you expect um, well as as the other panelists have mentioned, you know, there's a whole arrest processing booking process that has to occur, so mr trump was taken into custody, which, of course, formally placed under arrest. he has to be printed paperwork has to go to albany. um paperwork has to get to the court part. so there is a there's a fair amount of processing and administrative work that's going on. his lawyers are waiting. he's waiting with the d a investigators and from there they will bring him to the courthouse to be arraigned. um you know, it is in a way it is really surreal, and it's something where i've been on both sides. i've been the prosecutor waiting for a case to be arraigned and i've walked in clients to be arraigned. and you know the clients. all of them have that feeling of this is surreal. there's a process that they're going into that they do not control and the process sort of takes over for those who know the criminal justice system. it all makes sense for someone who's coming. who's never been involved in it, which is most criminal defendants. it is. it's just surreal, and you sort of get plugged into the system, and it just it just goes and you have no control. you just sort of float along with it. you have a you do have the t v screen. in the room where you are, i'm not sure if you can see these images that we're seeing if you can tell us what what hallway? this is specifically, um well, i can't say i heard earlier. the 15th floor. i don't i think the judge marshawn is on the 15th floor. i can't remember. but that could be a shot of anyone of a dozen floors in the criminal court building. they all look more or less identical. sort of this old 19 twenties marble with big, ornate doors a little bit run down. that's that's the new york criminal court building. all right. adam kaufman, former prosecutor with the da's office. thank you so much for your time. anderson thanks jake collins is on the 15th floor. word you're looking at is the 15th floor, caitlin, where you are, what we are seeing. looks like there's some detectives are secret service there in the background. it looks like i'm mixing both anderson. obviously this is as they are bracing for trump to come in. i should know that we went through two levels of security to get here ourselves and you can see there are officers lining the hallway, several barricades as well. and they've got us in a barricade pushed against the wall. we are told trump will come over through that door that you can see there the black door with the aluminum on it or aluminum lining around it. we are told that at the door trump is going to become through and then going into that courtroom before. the judge. obviously the judge that he has been attacking. we have not seen before president make it to the 15th store. yet our belief is he is still on the seventh floor right now. um but he is expected to be appear any moment now, and we are told anderson he is going to come before the cameras to deliver a brief statement. that is, according to one of his attorneys, chris kai's he has been wanting to speak to the media about his indictment. ever since he arrived here in new york yesterday. he's not actually done so he went straight to trump tower are. tony wants to talk to the cameras. we'll see if he does make his way over here when he arrived on the floor of the criminal court, building the blacked outdoors. where did they go? is that where the program and where is the courtroom that the former president will be going to so it's not exactly clear. right. it's not exactly clear which door is the courtroom in which doors leading trump entered. he's going to come into one of those on that the hallway, though, so in those two double doors into the courtroom, that is where he is going to be arraigned before the judge got it moments, caitlin and by here with john miller and karen agness, philo also elie honig. explain that the 15th floor came in saying he is on the seventh floor right now, johnny, you bridge the question of his miranda rights. karen, is he given his miranda rights? he probably will be just to remind him not to say anything not to blurt anything out and just in case he does say anything the prosecutors will want to use that potentially at trial. they would want to have made sure that his miranda warnings are red because it's miranda. warnings are triggered not just from an arrest, but if you're in custody and you're being interrogated and being asked questions, so they want to be very technical and by the book that's going to be an extraordinary moment for former president united states to have a court officer former detective or current detectives working for the d a s office, reading his miranda rights to him. it's gotta be kind of an out of body experience for the investigator to say, mr president, you have the right to remain silent. you have the right to an attorney. the legal complication here is there's a couple of rules and laws in play here. he is represented by counsel. the da's office understands that and they're not allowed to question him. but karen raises the point . if he starts talking, has donald trump is sometimes want to do and making spontaneous statements. if one of them is relevant is that is that usable ? this happens all the time. people make statements during booking to get used against him at trial constantly, and this is another moment. if he has been read his miranda rights, you have the right to remain silent. that is another reality hit. that is another sobering moment . the other thing i should add is right about now is the time when the defense lawyers would be given the indictment because they need to go through it in advance because what will happen in the actual courtroom is the judge will ask the defendant and the defense lawyers. have you had a chance to go through this indictment because they have to know what's in it before they can plead. and then the judge will say, would you like me to read it to you publicly or do you waive the public reading? do you give up the public reading 90% of the time? maybe more. than that, the defendant says. we waive it. we don't need you to read it out loud publicly. we've got reportedly 30 plus counts here. i imagine they will waive it. maybe they want to stand on ceremony and have every single one of those 30 plus counts read, but right about now it should be in their hands. the court it was supposed to be 2 15 correct. yes it's possibly to 15 now is that something they would move up depending on how fast the processing goes or is 2 15 the time the court courts take a break for lunch every day. a from one o'clock 2 to 15. that is one of those things that is just so you think lunch break right now? because these guys didn't get to eat if that's true , but i think the other thing is this is there is nothing normal final indignity that they're that they're on lunch break if that's the case securities, but this this is a day that we're nothing is the same. so the courthouse was basically closed down. as of one o'clock, everybody had to be out. so if there was a trial going on anything else, they're running a couple of arrangement parts downstairs, but you know again, there's two sets of magnetometers one for everybody who comes into the building and then again for anybody who's on the 15th floor. um former president trump would be taken from the seventh floor district attorney's office through the judges elevator to a floor that crosses over to the courthouse and then through a warrant of back hallways, where he would enter this hallway and come into the courtroom. the processing, though ah! which probably started when he not long after he arrived and some of which might have been done in advance. um it's going to take a bit, so i mean if everything goes smoothly, he should be produced in this hallway within 15 minutes. um it's the judge's call as to when he is ready. they have a room reserved. um we've been told a conference room or an empty courtroom on this floor for the attorneys and aids to gather. as ali pointed out, that's probably where there leafing through what could be a 50 page indictment to learn it. adam kopelman, former prosecutor. min the manhattan district attorney's office is also joining us as well in the current conversation. adam what are your thoughts as you as we wait to get site of the former president about what are you going to be listening for in the indictment once they are read out what's in them and whatnot in them? i think, um, it's really interesting to think about how this indictment might be framed. and you know, we think about the false business records. i wonder if any of the valuation issues the financial fraud type of issues that were part of the prior investigation and prior special grand jury and feature a large part in the in the civil case filed by the attorney general, i wonder if any of that will be in it. um you know an indictment like this , if you can you want to make it you want to have a conspiracy count? you'd want to be able to make it what we call a speaking indictment. meaning you tell a story? you have a conspiracy count that lets you give a narrative that describes the evidence that the grand jury heard and voted on which is very different than a dry 30 counts of falsifying business records, which is the same paragraph repeated 30 times and so i'm wondering if there is yeah, let me ask you why. why does a conspiracy count allow you to then have a narrative? i understand the idea of a narrative in the indictment that tells a story rather than just a dry recitation of facts. but why does it conspiracy count give you that? so it conspiracy count lets the prosecution frame the conspiracy and described the evidence that the grand jury heard if generally speaking, if you're talking about, for example, falsifying business records, the boilerplate language is just a dry recitation of the facts that defending on such and such a date with fraudulent intent caused false entries in the records of a business. with intent to conceal the commission of another crime. um, you can add a little bit to it, but it doesn't lend itself to really telling a narrative or a story. conspiracy is more of a story. and so that's what i would hope to see. but on the other hand, you have to have a crime, which was the object of the consent has to be a conspiracy to do something that would happen. so that's a great question. um conspiracy is nothing more than an agreement between two people to commit a crime. and you can describe what the agreement was and what the conspiracy hope to accomplish. and so that really gives the prosecution a strong ability to craft this sort of narrative, much more common in federal practice than in state practice, but it's a great opportunity for the prosecution to make a public statement within the four corners of the indictment. given them. michael cohen has served time for his involvement in this, and there was an unindicted co conspirator in the federal case. does that lead you to believe that there would be a conspiracy count? the problem. is that the crime that michael cohen pledged to involving mr trump? was this or involved in in may should say, involving coconspirator number one involved this federal campaign or election law violation. the manhattan da's office cannot prosecute that crime. it's a federal offense, so they couldn't articulate that as a conspiracy to commit that crime because it's not a state crime. and so it makes you wonder. is there another financial crime, for example, they could do this through a scheme to defraud. that would be a typical sort of state level fraudulent scheme that would allow them to described the type of crime in the type of narrative that i'm referencing karen you wanted so it can just picking up on what adam said a conspiracy charge. it could also be an agreement with david pecker, for example, it doesn't necessarily only have to be conspiracy with michael cohen, and it's going to be for a period of time. so from our about a period of time to on or about a period of time, and it allows much more evidence to come in that a judge might otherwise hold out, because it's saying it's not related to these . did you make this business record entry and conspiracies also required that you plead the overt acts that are in further into this conspiracy? so what are the actions that were taken? that are in furtherance of this conspiracy. and i think that again, you could have so much more in there that are overt acts that aren't necessarily crimes in and of themselves, like did they pay other people off? did they get together to agree to pay hush money payments? did they? how are they going to influence the election ? things that aren't necessarily elements of a crime or a crime? obviously. doors opened a number of people. it's the d a s staff. that's the d a staff. what does that tell you about? sue? half injure peter pope were there. i couldn't see everyone. but i see some financial crimes analysts going in. um so it looks like it's the team that worked on this indictment. so where are they coming from, and where they're going to going to the courtroom going in the courtroom? so the corporate so that's the door that the president karen that's the door of the president and former president is likely to come through in the courtroom is immediately to the left. there are many doors into the courtroom, and it's not just this one door. there are side doors, and there's a backdoor just speaking metaphorically there. there are many doors in the courtroom and many hallways that lead to each door, depending on where someone's coming from a judge comes in a different door. a jury comes in even another door. a defendant who is incarcerated comes in a different door. the public comes in the main door, so there are many doors to choose from, depending on for security reasons, which way they decided , mr trump should go. i was gonna say, anderson, just this 11 thing i just thinking about right here is the irony of the situation. all those all those rallies where they maga crowd chanted lock her up! lock her up! lock her up. and donald trump is now locked up right now, at this point in time, so it's a it's completely ironic and sad at the same time. another interesting point is a in a criminal case. unlike a civil case that mr trump will have to make the court appearances each one so he will have to keep coming back to this court to face this judge. for every motion practice for every time that the case gets adjourned whether it's for a hearing or for status conference or for a trial, so he this is this is a doors he will be walking through more multiple times in all the people in this hallway at this point, i mean, these are all court officers, police officers, maybe some secret servers. this looks like security that we can see here and potentially some press. but this this looks mostly like security, as as adam said, and there were the d, a staff that went into the courtroom and they're going to go sit at the district attorney table in the well, which is where the courtroom where the where the judge sits and where the lawyers sit and where the jury boxes and where witnesses sit. there's a there's a bar that then separates that from the public in the well, which is what that area is called. there will be at least two tables, one for the prosecutors and their staff and then one for mr trump and his lawyers. there will also be room for the secret service and the court officers and the court clerks will be there will be a court clerk who will be sitting behind a desk. and that is the person who will arraign mr trump , and he will. he will be given an indictment number so they will say calling docket. i'm sorry. indictment number 12345, which will be calendar number one today on the calendar. the people of the state of new york versus donald j. trump and the clerk will read him. the indictment charges he will arraign him on the charges and ask him, mr trump. how do you plead? and he'll say guilty or not guilty? he said he will plead not guilty. and the next thing that happens is the judge asks the prosecutor, whether they have any anything they want to file with the defendant and serve on the court. those could be oral oral notifications that they file or written. filings that they can do and is there any other? is there any other information that the prosecution wants to give? they also give it to the defense attorney, and then they pick a date for, you know for motion practice and the case gets adjourned for motions and motions are the time when his lawyers would would make the arguments raised the arguments of things like the statute of limitations has passed. or as adam kaufman was just saying that the federal charges that bump this from a misdemeanor falsifying business records to a felony aren't the appropriate charges to be relied upon or also in the state. you can challenge the grand jury minutes, which is something federally isn't typically done. so there are several motions that his lawyers might choose to make, and adam kaufman would the former president's attorneys would they already be in the courtroom and given that it's 203 and the court is supposed to begin at 2 15? is it likely that the former president's attorneys already have accounts in front of them that they already know what the indictments the former president is facing art. i think that that is likely i would imagine they've received a copy of the indictment from the prosecutors. they're probably going over it probably more than anything to think about what public statements they might make on the record at arraignment to sort of voice almost politically for the on behalf of mr trump their their opposition or what they perceive as the weaknesses in the case, just to get something on the record to counter the show. that is really the da's show of having this arrangement occur and the negative that that sort of is for mr trump katelyn polantz. you are in the hallway. assume next to or near where our camera is. talk about what you're seeing what you're hearing. you know, we have not seen the former president's attorneys yet. anderson obviously we're looking for a new faces that added to that team. todd blanche. she knows this place 12 he worked in the southern district of new york. it's a little bit chaotic and loud behind me, anderson because i'm standing in a scrum of still photographers, there is only one tv camera should note that is allowed in this hallway of the 15th four to capture the former president's arrival. we are expecting it to come through those double. black dorothy. you see ahead of you, but there has been a lot of movement of some of the officers who were on here. they do seem to be lining up. it does seem to be finalizing. we were just tried to police chief. stay here coming in one second. karen i'm sorry. karen who's that? so those are d a staff? that is the district attorney's, uh, security. the gentleman that we just saw who just went back in. so one question i have is will the district attorney alvin bragg? actually appear in court himself. we saw his the attorneys who are handling the case. susan hoffinger, peter pope and others who are assistant district attorneys. everyone who works in the da's office is an assistant district attorney. they there's only one district attorney and that's alvin bragg. and so one question is will be a brag, actually attend the arraignment. he this is a d. a who actually does go to court proceedings. he watches people on trial, not just high profile cases is a very supportive district attorney. so that's a d. that's that's the gentleman who typically just quickly go back to katelyn polantz. no, we're wondering which doors exactly he's going to come through. we did see trump's body man behind those double block doors that you're looking at there that karen was just referencing where you were seeing d a staff comes in and out of if he goes straight to the courtroom. he would come through those doors and take an immediate left his left. of course, we were told he will come to the cameras. we will see that happens, but we did see a trump staffer behind those doors. so we do expect the president is in that direction. katelyn polantz karen? yes, such as that gentleman that you see closest to the door in a suit right there. he works for the district attorney's office, and he one of his one of the things actually, he works for the new york he works for the nypd. he is the detail, but that's the d a squad. there's an actual precinct police precinct that the nypd has in the district attorney's office. it's called the d, a squad where they have detectives and one of the roles that they play is they are the detail that provides security to the district attorney himself. and obviously, that detail has been beat up just given what the threats that are being made and have been made encouraged by her. the um the arguments the former president has been making about the district attorney ideas, mr morganthal, mr vance and d a brag they all have police protection and a police detail. so it's. it's not unusual. it'll be an interesting decision by the d a. does he physically appear in court? on the one hand, it's the biggest case he will ever handle, and he wants to give the imprimatur of his entire office. on the other hand again, there's this challenge of treating this like any other case, and it would be very rare. but you know, far fewer than 1% of all cases that the actual d a makes an actual in person appearance. this district attorney does from time to time go to court this week, he was in a courtroom for sex crimes case that you know he wanted to show the district attorney had an interest in so appearing in in this courtroom, would certainly as as ellie says , there would be a logic to it. he is the name the voice the face of the office. and he is the reason this case went forward. there would also be political calculations, both for him and for the former president's team. the former president has been obviously very critical of this district attorney so him appearing in the court might play into that in some some respects. that's right . but i as as we had mentioned earlier today for those of us who are just joining he has a press conference planned essentially for immediately after this arrangement where he can for the first time because the grand jury investigation was secret talk about the details of this prosecution. so it appears more people are going into the courtroom. when we see the when we see the former president just to let viewers know we're not going to be speaking. we want to let you hear what is happening in that hallway at that time, so as soon as we see the former president, we will just let the natural sound. uh yeah. we got half the whole we anticipate we are about six minutes away from when the court is supposed to start. how likely is it that it would be on time? that is a million dollar question on a normal day. this is not a normal day, so assuming that the processing went on time, and that the judge is expecting a former president in his courtroom at a specific time. i think we have a better chance than normal today. i think this is highly choreographed and arranged for security reasons more than anything. exactly what's happening at what time the former president. where would he be at this stage now? he would. alvin bragg, bragg right there, anderson and i should say i worked with him for years as a federal prosecutor. across the street. he ran for this office. he's been in office for about a year, he beat a very crowded democratic primary here in manhattan very narrowly. in order to win this job. he is a deeply experienced prosecutor. i've known him to be nothing but a straight shooter and honest prosecutor, a man of integrity. he's a trailblazer. he's the first african american man or person to the d a of this county of manhattan, and so he's already carved out of place in history. this will, of course, be another part of alvin brags legacy, and i think it is not surprising that he's making an appearance in this courtroom. i think it would be an astonishing omission. if he did not. this is the most important case he will ever be. part of and by going into the courtroom here. he's making a statement. he has to stand behind this. he is the person who the citizens of manhattan elected to this office. he's the one who's name is on the door. he's the one who's name will be on the indictment, and this will be the biggest part of his legacy. adam kaufman is also with us. adam will would d a brag be speaking during this court proceeding. do you think i doubt it to me. i think he would probably have the team that is going to prosecute the case. stand up and do the arrangement. i think there's a fine line between sort of being the face of the office and showing up to support and letting it be known that you're the guy behind the prosecution and maybe speaking and taking over the arraignment would be a step too far and could be construed as sort of showboating. so my money would be that he is present and supporting, but not not taking an active role. alternatively he could also say, look, donald trump attacks anyone who who does anything with respect to him. he goes after people's wives. he goes after people, spouses, families, and i could also see alvin bragg saying, i don't want to put my assistants who aren't politicians who are elected who who who bring these cases without fear or favor. and bring no politics into this whatsoever. i could see him wanting to shield them from that as well. but i agree with adam is it is typically not done. but in this particular instance, at least will have been discussed whether or not to do that again, just to draw that away from from his assistant d. a s one of the challenges that he faces here is protecting his office. protecting the integrity of his office, the independence of his office. the people who work for him in that office. we've already seen him start to do that, in his statement in response to the threats that have come through from donald trump and in response to congress, which is trying to intervene in this and interfere in this, and alvin bragg has sent a letter back to them, essentially saying, but out, you have no jurisdiction over us. and so that will be another challenge, in addition to actually prosecuting this case, he has to make sure to protect his people protect his office, protect their integrity and independence. and i mean the fallout from the verbal criticisms that are the written criticisms that donald trump has made. the verbal criticisms is he's made whether on social media or to the press. um has been there's about 66 0 threats to district attorney brag his first assistant and the judge in this case, and i have read through. some of those threats that include um, extraordinary promises of violence and threats of violence and suggestions of violence. so i think showing up in this courtroom, um, is very important to alvin bragg to say i am not. i am not hiding from anything or anyone and i am behind my staff here just two minutes now from when court is supposed to come into session. we don't know if it will start on time or not. let's just talk a little bit about how things will start once. the judge has has hit that gavel in court is in session, karen yes, so once that happens, the clerk will call the case into the calendar. the clerk sits in the well behind the desk off to the side and the clerk will call the case into into the to the record. there will be a court reporter sitting there taking down all the words that are said typing into a stenographer starts sonography machine. and the clerk will call the case into the record the case we'll have an indictment number and they'll say, calling indictment number x y z a certain interrupt question . i should have asked you before , if the president's attorney, assuming the former president's attorneys have the indictments in front of them, um have they already? do you think they've already are they able to be in communication with the former president of the former president? have his phone like does he have his phone taken away from him or anything? that's a really mean ordinary defendant. normal arrest. they would have, what? everything their phone keys, whatever taken from them to have had a chance to actually sit down with donald trump and go through the indictment with him because he's going to enter a plea and so in order to enter a plea, he has to know what he's pleading to. in fact, the judge typically will ask. have you had a chance to review this indictment with your attorneys before the judge takes the plate? they may well be meeting in one of the back rooms behind those double doors right now. i mean, there's conference rooms, and there's you know, there are places for the council to meet with with their clients , so that that could be what's going on now for all for all we know so that that would explain why we may not with why we have not seen the former president's attorneys entering the quartet. we've now seen the prosecution team we've seen the district attorney make opening through those double doors and turning left going into the courtroom. we have not seen obviously the former president or his legal team at this point entering the courtroom. that's right, interested and it could take awhile if there are 30 plus counts of this indictment. as we've reported, a lawyer would want to go through all of them with donald trump, and that could take time and he may be angry. he may have questions. he may want to talk it through. and so what? we're already a little bit past 2 15, but that can take some time and so, you know. we'll have to wait and see how much longer it takes. but a 30 plus count indictment is a long indictment. plus if there is that conspiracy charge that adam kaufman was talking about earlier that could be pages and pages long. that is the speaking indictment. adam was talking about which will have a lot of language from a long period of time and lots of elements to it and acts that may not that wouldn't be there. in the other 30 plus charges of falsifying business records so they would want to go through all the facts because it will also give an indication of what was the evidence that was presented to the grand jury because any facts that are in the indictment are facts that were given to the 23 grand jurors who sat and listened to this case since january, and they were all voted on by those 23. the grand jurors. so the copy of this indictment that we will see all of the elements in there? you will see that the that is the evidence that was presented to the grand jury, and they voted on each and every one of those. would the former president see the evidence that is behind those charges. go ahead. at this moment, he would see the actual indictment. but within that, 45 or so day period, prosecutors would have to turn over what we call discovery, which is essentially their entire file, and it's important understand this in criminal practice prosecutors, state and federal across this country have an affirmative obligation to turn over all of their evidence, including evidence. especially evidence which may be helpful to the defendant, which may suggest that the defendant is innocent. people sometimes call that brady evidence, buthais an important part of the job of being a prosecutor. he is owed that evidence as part of discovery, which will be within 45 days or so, typically under the state system, and adam, it would a normal defendant. be given as much time as they needed in order to confer with their attorneys to go over the charges against them if the court was supposed to start at 2 15 normally normally moves pretty quickly and you're sort of on the judge's schedule and you move when the case is called. you're ready to go, you know, again, unusual circumstance. we don't know how long mr trump has been possibly meeting with his counsel to go over the indictment. um, you know, in state in state court, there's just a lot of cases to be called so things sort of move a lot more quickly than they tend to move in federal court. uh, arrangements are quicker. everything tends to move a lot more quickly and a lot more volume in state court. but you know one thing that wondering sorry. what are you thinking about? karen was speaking to that. that sort of idea of a conspiracy and speaking indictment. i really i'm trying to think i'm sort of racking my brain trying to think what the what the conspiracy would be a conspiracy to do. what because, you know, unless it's a financial crime. there's really no state conspiracy to violate a federal election law. and so it will be interesting again. i think we're all in the same position of waiting to see. but whether that that 30 count indictment is again 30 counts of falsifying business records or something more interesting. anderson this indictment could have an awful lot of narrative detail that is in the prosecutor's prerogative. prosecutors write their own indictments, and i assure you, alvin bragg understands just how much attention will be on this case. and this is the debut. this is when we in the public get and scrutinize their case. and so if i'm in that position, i'm putting in as much evidence and as much detail as i can, and another thing i'm doing is trying to refer to specific pieces of evidence, for example , if there are important quotes in text in emails and documents , i would put that in that indictment so that we in the public and the media can see that and so again. this could be quite a lengthy document. we elissa knows donald trump better than any of us. i mean, if he's being read page upon page of accusation against him, i'm not sure he's the type of guy who would just sit there and nod and say, let's get this over with, he may have something to say to his lawyers. i think the other reason you would put it. it in as well is so that it you get to introduce that evidence at trial. you don't if it's not in there, the defense attorney could make the argument that this is this is a prior bad act . this is an uncharged, bad act, and so it's overly its probative value is outweighed by its prejudicial effect. and so you want to put it in there to make sure that you can get that evidence in at trial. if there if adam's right and there is no conspiracy, because there's no object crime, there's no crime. that they agreed to commit that counts, although i think there is if adam's right i think that the district attorney will also file a statement of facts in this case. so that the d a s office, unlike donald trump is really bound by what they can talk about all your all your speaking should be done in court, and it has to be about things that have been done. on the record. it's actually inappropriate for them. two and it could be an ethical violation to talk about a case and to talk about something that is not in the court record. and so i think the da's office will want to put as much as possible into the record so that it can be. they can talk about it publicly. and so i think if we don't have a speaking indictment per se, with the conspiracy charge, we will at least have a statement of fact. filed with this indictment . is it clear to you, karen? at what point we and our viewers will learn what the counts are. i mean, is it when they come out of the judges? mouth? is it something that's released? moments before, so there's different ways you can receive it. it'll be. i'm sure that the district attorney's office will send it out publicly. the minute it's unsealed, and it'll be available gets unsealed. what when the judge speaks or yes, at the arrangement is when it is unsealed, and this is this is done by statute, so if there if somebody is just arrested and then the case is presented to the grand jury, which is actually what mostly happens in new york city with most felonies in manhattan. to proceed with with these cases, typically, you make an arrest and then an indictment but in long term investigations where you're in the grand jury, and the indictment comes first, the law actually makes has that indictments called an indictment or a no arrest. just indictment. and the law provides that that indictment is sealed until the arraignment and until it's on or unsealed by a judge. so so that's why this particular indictment is unsealed. but others might not be before the supreme court arraignment and supreme court, by the way is the lower trial court in new york state. it's the lowest level trial court. it's not an appellate court. so this is where they are right now. they are in the manhattan criminal court building. it's the name of the building and in the criminal court building, you hear both felonies and misdemeanors and felonies are heard in manhattan supreme court and that's where they are right now. and this is presumably the first time that the former president is, you know, reading the indictment and actually seeing what the grand jury had voted on, and i have to imagine having briefed him previously whether it was, you know, news outlets reporting allegations or legal documents that we've received. he's somebody who's going to want to go through all of it. he's somebody who's going to want to push back and explain to his lawyers how he wants to respond to it, even though that's not part of this specific process. so this could go on for an amount of time knowing that donald trump is going to want to go through each of these allegations and be prepped with his attorneys just say it's also be interesting. here come if he does come out and speak what he's gonna say. i mean, it's gonna be incredible that he will know what the indictments are against him. we won't have have had that opportunity to hear it. he'll be you know if it's if it's expansive. it's more than the four corners of the document. i wonder what he says. if it's if it's what do you expect? how does he read? how does he respond? the fact that alvin bragg has called a press conference for later today. i think it's 3 30 tells me that he's gonna put detail in this try to control the narrative before trump gets back tomorrow. largo it's one of the it's one of the many advantages the prosecutors have you get to go first you get to lodge the allegation. but when any prosecutor any d a or u. s attorney or attorney general stands in front of the microphones, it is universally observed that you cannot speak about anything that's not on the record. that's not in the indictment. that hasn't been said in court. prosecutors know how to do this. prosecutors are aware of that restriction, and so sometimes we will put more detail in an indictment for specifically this purpose, but i think that all indications are that there will be quite a bit of detail. in this document, and that's why to 15 is already not holding and it may be a bit i'm very curious to see how alvin bragg acquits himself he's been talked about. he's been frankly demonized. people have tried to make him the issue. um and i know i know you're you. you know who he is, but i'm i'm curious. you're you're a performer. let me give you this insight into alvin bragg. he is not a big ego. we sometimes assume, you know, think of prosecutors being loud and pounding the podium and especially someone who runs for office and an extremely challenging district like this. alvin bragg is a soft spoken person. he's very effective in court. i think we'll see he's very effective behind the podium . he's determined and he has a backbone. um but he does not fit the stereotype of the prosecutor . in a lot of ways. he is not a fire breather. he's careful. he's deliberate and he's modest . and i think we'll see that when he when he when he takes the podium in an hour, or maybe a little more than that. i mean, he's certainly different. he's certainly been controversial. he ran on a progressive platform of criminal justice reform. and on his first day in office after being elected, there was a controversial memo called day one, and it said, you know, from here on out the office policy is to not to prosecute these kinds of cases or those kinds of cases , basically many low level crimes unless certain conditions were meant. whether they were violent crimes not to seek bail in cases, um and bail reform law was on the books that was new at the same time, so he kind of made his entrance, saying not. here's all the things i'm going to go after. but here's all the things we're not going to do and by doing that. i think what he was saying was, um, i am going to be a leader in criminal justice reform in new york city. this put him on the bad side of many police officers, some other prosecutors a lot of politicians , so he stirred up a hornet's nest. this case is on the far other side of that. of that universe, which is it's a white collar crime. it's a crime that's politically controversial , and it's a crime that is singular in that it's defendant is who it is. let's see. there's todd blanche right there. that is, that is donald trump's new lawyer, pena pena. that's the trump defense team. obviously we're about to see the former president that tells me they were probably back there with him talking to him because he? i think he's back there. and anderson on the topic of alvin bragg again. i was colleagues with him for a long time. also important in his history. and we're looking out for the president here. i'll be quiet when let's just focus on what's about to occur. listen it's very possible. we don't know how much the former president, let's just watch. former president trump entering the courthouse to hear the indictments read against him an extraordinary moment in history, john yeah. and you know, there was some reporting that he would come through that door as we watch the replay and come to the cameras and say something and then going to court. clearly that is not in the plan anymore. the question is now and he's currently again technically in custody. so he he's he's going to follow instructions. but the question is now after he is released, which is anticipated from custody at the end of this hearing, will he come to these cameras and make a statement then katelyn polantz who's your in the hollow? i believe that was you yelling out of question . what did you see? from your vantage point? we were trying to summon him. obviously over here. we just give you a sense of what you can't see on camera will probably about 50 ft. away from that door, where more president trump entered. he took a left. he went into the same courtroom where you saw his attorneys go in. also visit aids. jason miller forest, obscene and his attorneys going in with him. we asked him in his another attorney, chris skies is that he would come to the camera and speak. he obviously did not do so. he went straight to the room. they were behind those doors for several minutes. anderson and the attorneys went in first. then boris abstain, then trump followed by jason miller. just give you a sense of the succession of who you saw walking in those doors. i also want to note one of the persons latest. here's walt and also that is the former white house valet to trump, who is now a personal aide to him down at mar-a-lago, who is actually a key witness in the documents investigation. he's also here accompanied trump on this trip. now he is in that room. he is being read the indictment. obviously he is going to enter the police himself. we're told, we'll see if that actually standard with the attorneys. and then he potentially make him over and speak to us afterwards . he does know we're here. we tried to get him to answer the question going in the room. anderson had to say no notice like caitlin that boris and boris epstein and jason were the two aides that accompanied the former president, jason miller. and if you had to say, who, who would the president take to kind of pump them up and kind of sake? you know, hang in there, mr president and get him in a good mood and or to say this is bs. you know you're being persecuted. i would say both of those gentlemen would be would be the people that i would suggest that you know, you put in the room boris, especially as bombastic and kind of a bigger than life personality. listen, what did you think about how the former president looked he looked sad. he looked struck. i think you know we had we had been under the impression he may make a brief statement before going in, and i think the fact that he didn't is notable that indicates to me. potentially what he saw in the indictment goes further than he expected to. i don't want to jump to conclusions, but he likely went into this with some sort of a written statement. we're hearing one or two lines he wanted to say, and for whatever reason, he decided to pull that back or perhaps wait till afterward. this is where as often as the case in trump world, the attorneys are likely at odds with the comms advisers who are going to want him to be to david's point, you know, pushing back calling it a witch hunt. but sometimes the best thing legally to do is to remain silent. e what he you know, we know we're going to hear from him later tonight, if not immediately after this arraignment, but that was not a happy looking donald trump. some photographers. still photographers who assume were allowed inside the courtroom. they were ushered in several moments ago. no. looks like they are now leaving so there will be some still photographs assume of the former president in the in the courtroom. that's another shot kind of a wider shot of water angle shot from from the hallway outside the courtroom. uh adam kaufman, could you just talk a little bit about what is happening inside that courtroom right now? sure. so, um so mr trump would have gone to the defense table where he would have joined, um, any number of his defense attorney, he would be seated at the table. um once everyone was present the judge would be would come in would enter the courtroom. um depending on the judges preference there may or may not be the sort of traditional all rise um, the judge. sorry adam. but would there be a boris epstein? jason miller? they probably wouldn't be the defense table assumed they would be seated, perhaps behind or they're they're not. they're spectators in the courtroom. it seems like i don't know. typically of course, courtrooms are open to the public. it looks like the whole courthouse has shut down today. and if they're not letting the press in to watch the arrangement, and i can't imagine they're letting the publican so they they have press in there and the spectator seats. um, they may have some members of the public, although they reserved most of it for the press. they have an overflow room where they're getting a closed circuit tv version of this presumably not recorded but fed where there's more press and perhaps some public, this was something that was arranged early today with color coded passes and people in line and you know, handled by the office of court administration in the court officers. my understanding also is they would have taken away any electronic devices for anyone going in there as well as disabled the wifi of the building so that there is no way to surreptitiously record this or in any way. get into the systems here, so there was an office wide email sent to the manhattan years office this morning by from d, a brag, explaining all the extraordinary measures that are being taken in the building today. i mean, we are we should be just moments away from actually learning the indictments yourselves. so first of all, there is a court reporter in the room who is transcribing every word that's said so this will not be about spin. nobody will be able to claim something was said that wasn't said, we will have an an official record. and, yes, anderson. we will reporters in the room. let's go back to jake. yeah anderson. thanks so much, so just to bring everybody up to speed and andy mccabe, let me just correct. correct me if i'm wrong here. what we've been watching donald trump went to a different floor of the manhattan criminal court building where he was processed. then we see him walking through. he gave up on an elevator. he's this is from the 15th floor, and now he is in the courtroom where he pleaded not guilty. and then we saw those still, photographers come out run down the hall. those are with photographs from that courtroom. is that right? that's exactly right. that's exactly right. so the processing on the seventh floor after processing likely he meets with his attorney. they get an opportunity, then to see the indictment for the first time when that's finished up the elevator through those doors hard left and into the courtroom, which is where he remains. and karen in new york. let me ask you. how likely is it that the lawyers just just sat there and went over point by point complaint complaint by complaint with donald trump. yes so, yeah. so miss donald trump is going in there right now and he is going to be told what the charges are. he's talking to his lawyers. and for all we know, right now, the judge is telling him exactly what the charges are and arraigning him on them. that would be happening right now in the courtroom, not earlier when the processing was going on. yes so right now he is going to be officially formally arraigned by the judge, which means that's the form. family information. that's when you are informed formally of the charges that are being that you are being charged with. and you are then asked to enter. how do you plead guilty or not guilty and he is going to enter a plea of not guilty and this is where we will. we will see exactly what other information the district attorney wants to inform the defendant and his team of the judge will also any admonishments that the judge wants to give whether there's been some discussion. russian of a gag order. i that that may or may not happen, but short of that, that i'm sure the judge will give him some admonishments because he is now no longer just the former president. he's now defendant trump and this judge will have to protect the integrity of this case and any future trial future jurors and make sure that although yes, he has a right to speak freely about, uh, about information. he also has a right. he doesn't have a right to taint the process against him. so um, adam , let me just ask you, donald trump has referred to the district attorney alvin bragg as a as an animal in his some of his social media post. is that the kind of thing the judge would tell the defendant donald trump to stop doing because of the threats of violence that have followed? think that's right. um i think you know, i would be surprised if the judge issued a gag order at this point in the case, but i would also be surprised if he did not admonish , admonish both parties to be respectful of the process and to use temperate language and so forth. but you know, the target of those admonishments is clearly going to be mr trump. and i think, given that he is now a defendant in a criminal case he is object to rules of the court and if he continues to engage in that type of threatening abusive social media posts to interrupt you for one second, adam, i'm gonna interrupt you for one second, just because this is one of the photographs that we just got their worth from inside the courtroom. still photographers about half a dozen of them or so were allowed in the room to take pictures. they are not going to be televising the proceedings. within the courtroom. but there is donald trump. you see to his left. i mean, sorry to our left todd blanche, which is a new attorney on his team and then on the right side of the screen. joe attack a pena. i'm sorry, adam. please proceed with what you were saying. i just i just think that thathe will be an admonishment to be temperate in their language. and i think that if mr trump continu to call the d, a and animal continues to incite threatsst the prosecutors and the judge. this judge will take control of the order and shut that down. yeahg , um, the photograph is stark wg order and shut that down. yeah so, um, the photograph is stark and historic as we look at it, donald trump. uh with a i don't know how to characterize his face, but certainly a serious expression on his face. ah! alyssa farah griffin, is she? is she with us? if she is, i'd love her to weigh what he rd in the indictment before coming out, was more than he anticipatedhe obviously went into this knowing it wasn't gonna be aood day for him. you know he's going to be marked in the history books as the fndicd former president buts los like a man who the weight of his actions may be catching up with him, and he feels out of contror the duration of this arrangement. he'ot going. he's not inontrol of the situation. he can't storm out. he can't throw his hands up. he can't you know, jump up and make a scene or calling the cameras. he's so used to controlling all aspects of wt's going on around him, and this is a moment where he's fully out of control. david urban. what are your thgh? when you look at this picture, jake kind of to echo with alyssa says, you know, i've seen the president. look that way during debes. um you know , contempl, but but clear is a situation has never been in before. 's currently in custody as he sits there, um, at that table? no no. the boris thei divorce. epstein, jason miller. no campaign people. these are these are criminal defense lawyers there, u kn, fighting for his liberty to put not too fine a point on it and, uh and obviously, i'm sure he's thinking about it ri. it's not something he would take lately and the president is a is , yoknow, is a student of ter and history. and this is this is bad theater by any way, shape or form for him, not, you know, the pomp and circumstance of the state of the union address or a big rally. this is kind of small ball and in the worst of ways right for him. yeah from reality tv to reality , you know, that's how it looks like it's gone from reality tv. t realities is not judy. this is real, you can see it. you can see it and one of e things david urban. that was resting. i'm sorry, george conway. one of the things that was interesting was between nald trump. you know, we saw come through the door. uh and he did not look boastful. he did not look braggadocious one of his favorite words, he did not lo confident. did not look the way he looks when he does his rallies. um he looked like a defendant as was just said george conway. what do you thinking as you look at these images. well i'm sure he was cautioned to restrain himself. but i agree with what illicit, said a cou mines ago. this is a man who is not in control of the situation, and hi personality is the type that tries to control everything and everyone around him. he tnks everything and everyone around should do his bidding. and this is a situation where he has absolutely zero control. i mean, this is, you he's criminal dnt, and the process is going to take, umts toll on him hs going to have to live with the process. and you know if he wants to fight with the judge and get,yod try to do that. but he's going to lose in the end, and i think maybe his lawyer, i'm sure his lawyers are trying to convey that to him, and mbe some of it has sunk in or, you know, maybe tomorrow he'll wake up and do something absolutely would tell us what the is going on right now? in that room with those lawyers sitting behind thatlet the defendant's table? yes so that's that's the defendant's to the right will be the prosecution table. you can see the chair over there , the purplish colorha that's going to be where the clerk normally sr the court officers and you are going to and the judges sitting in front in the middle of all of them the way ty' sitting that the person all the way at the bottom of the scree with his towards the woman. that's todd blanchehe ithe attorney who was just brought on to represent mr trump. he's sitting in the lead counsels that's typically whe lead counsel will sit. and so he is sitting uh, he's sitting in that in that position. he was. he w attney who represpaul manafort. when vce brought charges against similar charges, me falsifying business records, etcetera against paul manafort that were dismissed on appeal for double jeopardy reasons, because if you recall mr federally. and then, mr trump, actually, um, actually p him and so savants brought similar chart. charges slightly fferent but similar and i on appealed that it was ub jeopardy and that the state couldn't bring those charge i would imagine that's one of the reasons he was brought. mr blanche was broughte was successfully beat their legament. a case brought against somebody w is a trump ally sitting next ttodd blanches susan necklace. she's a criminal defense attorney in new york. she was the lawyer who represented th trump organization in the trial that recentlyt, um and alvin bragg 17 count conviction sweeping conviction against the trump organization where allen weisberg pled guilty and testified on behalf of the district attorney the trump or he did tesfy or give up any information about ldrump. but susan necklace was was one of the lead attorneys. in that case was before this judge, by th way, same defense attorney and some of the same prosecuto. and then, of course, there's mr trump, and the next thiis joe tacopina, who is also w known criminal defense attorney in new york, who is a lawyer who's representing mr trum in the three and from three weeks from now in civil court in thearroll rape case that will be going on 25th and next day and next tohi, who was who was a wouse aid to donald trump. john miller . let me ask you, we seehese images of law enforcement officers standing behind donald trump and his defense team. is that normal? are they there to provide security? um explain to us what's going on there. so that's normal in a day where nothing is . usually they're there to ensure that there's no trouble from the defendant and that everybody in the courtroom is safe and, um, the way this often goes, is the defendant is brought in from the from the pens. the prison cells to outside the courtroom. and e dge orders the court officers to remove the handcuffs and then when the hearings over to replace the handcuffs if the defendant isn't beiease, so that's their normal place. what's remabt it is , that's standing in ont of them in the defenda not somebody that they had uncuff or will probably have to recap, but it's the first time donamp has probablyr been more than four ft from a secret service agent frohi security detail, but right now he is the custody of the manhattan d a under the control of thes officers. and under the control of the decision that this judge makes w wre sitting here talking in the next few minutes and david urban. um this is not the kind of expression that we're used to seeing donald trump, especially in his post presidential life. when ah, it's basically rallies or, um, you know, instagram photos with brides and grooms at mar-a-go . this is a this is a more chastened donald trump. youkn? o to that wide shot again, jake, you know at that counsel's , you know boris epstein sitting there and so i'm wondering if he is, you kn ellie if he's if he'sisted the table, don't you have to be the lawyers table?you ve to be counself cord for the president. you either have to be admitt ithe state of new york or you can be waived in sometimes it can be admitted. just for pur of one particular. i find it interesting. you know, boris is he's a political adviser, and so you know, jake, the only thing i can think oe's sitting at thle. so any communications he can have with the presint. moving forward or attorney or privilegm and you know, they kind of they can't be. you know, they can't be subject to disclosure. it's interesting that boris is sitting there. i guess it's he's not traditionally a notable criminal defense lawyers as the rest sitting there at the table could be just it because if he iserving as a lawyer than any of his communications with the team of lawyers or with the client, donald trump would be privileged something even more basic than that is donald trump has certaintaff around to mirror sort of safety blankets for him. people that make him feel comfortable. he doesn't have long standing relationships with most of thesrney to the best of my knowledge, but boris is somebody who's an original 2016. or he's somebody that he has a close relationship with and i think just having that one person near him helps him and also alyssa. if i could just note these pictures he's looking right at the at the camera. i mean, the photographers are there. there's still photographers are there he's looking at them while his attorneys are conferring, or boris epstein is looking off to the side, he's looking at the cameras. um and he doesn't look like somebod has. i mean, we'll see what what's in the arrangement. what's in the indictment? rather, we'll see doesn't look like somebody w thinks that the indictment is nonsense. it's also interesting, jake. i mean, he's just been roug a process, which, as van pointed out earlier, i mean, every criminal defendant goes through as he entered the whole the 15th floor. he didn't even somebody holding the door open for him. i don't know if you notice and we could. we could replay that video at some point of him making appearance on the hall. there's a court officer i believe who enters before him doesn't hold the door open for him. and the former president actually has to push the door open for himself, which is probably the first time he's had to do tha in quite some time. yeah that alone, knowing donald trump will stick withim in in a way, just a symbolic way of noticing that the difference the lack of pomp and circumstance, the lack of sort of, you know,ce being provided for him. just that nt that could have been a stark one that stands out to him. one other thing, that's restg list and i wonder what insights you can provide for us on t is that it notably, um the former first lady melania trump did not go from mar-a-lago from florida to new york with donald trump with her husband, the former president. obviously the underlying activities that are the origin of these charges have to do with him allegedly cheating on his wife with stormy daniels, not long after she gave birth to their son, baron, and i'm wondering if that in your view is probably one of the reasons why she didn't make the trip. i have to imagine, just optically. you would think that the former president would want her by his side because of the circumstances of this case. from what i've seen. he has a very tight knit group of aides with him a smaller footprint than he probably travels with. i'll be curious to see if she's by his side tonight when he gives remarks as he gets back to florida. i think that would be important. since this is a case that directly deals with allegations of an extramarital affair. i don't know that i would go so far as to call it an affair. but yes, if we could go back to the picture that we just showed a second ago, he was looking off to the distance. he looked really irritated and annoyed. his it was a profile photo that we just showed. there it is. um i mean, jamie gangel you've been covering donald trump for a long time. that is a piste off donald trump. you know , this is not defiant. we've seen pictures that sort of were sobering. no question that is an angry donald trump. there's two things to point out, in addition to the fact that no one held the door open for him. we have been told that he was likely going to stop in the hallway and speak on his way in your texting did not happen, and i have to wonder if one of the reasons it didn't happen is because he's in custody and they would not allow it to happen on the way in. the other thing i just want to mention is i spoke to people who have been in civil cases with him before we see the public. donald trump. we see what he posts we see all this fighting and bravado and ah, i am told that when he's in a courtroom, and i would think even more so in a criminal case that he is going to be respectful of this judge who not too long ago he posted and he said the judge assigned to my witch hunt case, a case that's never been charge before capital letters. hates me. i'm guessing we will hear a very different report and i'm being told by a source in new york government that the indictment has been unsealed, although it's not live yet on the website, as john miller reported several days ago, it is 34 charges against donald trump and i'm told that he pleaded not guilty to all 34 of those charges. and now, of course, we wait to see what those charges are? carrie cordero? yeah well, i mean, so, so we'll see what the actual substance of these charges are and whether they pertain to more crimes or whether they just are that many charges because that's each count of a particular financial transaction, like a check, but as we're waiting to see what the text of that charging document actually is, as we're watching these visuals, one of the things that stands out to me is just this dichotomy between on one hand that justice system. trying to treat the former president like any other defendant, so going through the normal processing, having taken that time where he had to be behind the scenes and fingerprinted and processed through whatever paperwork needed to be done in new york, but the other side of the screen showing the extensive security procedures and all of the police presence that's there and the fact that there is not the public in the seats behind the defendant in this room is not open to the public just shows how not normal. this situation is that despite the justice system may be trying to make this sort of the way other defendants would be treated. it's just not that way. this is a completely unique situation. i mean, it is an interesting balance of trying to act as though we're all equal under the law and donald trump will be treated no differently than anybody else, while also obviously he is a former president. this has never happened before. andy mccabe and also, you know, to be fair. i don't know that a case like this would be brought against donald trump real estate developer for the same alleged. i mean, who knows? maybe it would be, but on the other hand, who knows really hard to say at this point, having not seen the indictment yet, right? but that's that's a decision that i think each one of us has to come to. after reading the document, the d. a s office certainly maintains that they bring this charge of falsification of business records and sometimes with the felony enhancement on a fairly regular basis against white collar defendants. um but again , we don't know what's going to be in this in this document. i will say, though, jake that these photographs of the former president are so striking, but to me, they are very familiar in a way over. of course of over 20 years in the fbi, having been with numerous people on arrest and arraignment day, there is an undeniable humility and humanity that comes out against whoever has been called before the court and accused publicly of a crime in this process, whether you're you know what i've seen it from street level criminals, although we have two ceos and white white collar people accused of white collar offenses this moment you may be sitting next to your lawyers, but you are alone before a judge and before the law and facing some very serious allegations, and it is a moment that that he will never forget his family will never forget. um and it's a it's a somber thing, no matter who's he is an individual, of course, very wealthy to the manner born who has, in many ways escaped consequences for actions for decades and decades, so i could see why sitting at that table would be particularly humbling he probably never thought he would ever have to. of course, we're still waiting to find out what exactly the charges are. but just to report repeat my reporting from before the indictment has been unsealed. a source in new york government tells me it is not live yet on the website, but there are 34 charges and i am told from this source. in new york government that donald trump pleaded not guilty to all 34 counts. we're trying to get more details and information about that. i think , as we consider why he may not have spoken to the media on his way in, and, uh we will see whether he does on his way out the gravity of the situation really sitting with him in this moment, i think is really important. when he comes out and says something. what he says, is now in the context of an actual criminal case in which his, uh you know, actual freedom is on the line, and that's a totally different situation situation that he has ever faced before. and so the normal kind of, uh, you know, rob ra rally bravado that you would see from trump. would not necessarily be appropriate in this moment. i cannot imagine a trump attorney saying, let's put trump in front of a camera off the cuff and have him say something they would probably be much more comfortable with him standing in front of a podium, reading something that they had cleared , but it would be very interesting to see if in this particular context of a criminal case. they say to trump go in front of a camera and go for it. i don't care how many times you plan things with trump a lot of times he does what he wants. in those moments. he definitely goes rogue. so carry just to bring context to this, um, reporting we have from a source in new york government that the indictment has been unsealed and there are 34 counts, and donald trump has pleaded not guilty to all 34 when that happens in a courtroom. do they recite each charge to the charge of x? how do you plead? and he says not guilty or how does it go different practices, but in what i would expect is that they would read the charges and you may also want to check with our new york lawyers who have been in the new york d a s office in terms of how what their experiences and in the court and judge marshawn in particular, but they would read the entire indictment or he could waive the reading of the indictment. and so one of the things that we want to listen for is how the actual proceeding before this particular judge went forward karen up in new york, karen, how would it proceed? would they read each one of the 34 charges ? and he would say not guilty to each one of them, or would it be a waving of them all and just 11 plea of not guilty. typically the way it's done is a defense attorney will say the judge will ask you waive the reading of the rights and the defense attorney will respond. yes, but not the rights there under the fact that he's already if the reporting is correct the fact that he's already pled not guilty to all 34 charges leads me to believe that he is a that probably did happen here that they read the reading. they waived the reading of the 34. charges and instead just arraigned him on the indictment. this is a long proceeding, i will say for an arraignment because especially if he's already pled, not guilty . that's the main thing that would happen. here is the reading of the indictment. and how do you plead the entry of plea guilty or not guilty? and he entered not guilty. so the question to me is what has been happening since he entered those pleas of not guilty here. and it potentially, they could be looking at future dates for scheduling or whether or not he wants to appear or has to appear. i should say at future dates, but more likely. is there some legal arguments that are being sought at sought after by either the d a. or the defense attorneys who are asking the judge to rule on certain legal questions that they may or may not have? or perhaps the judges , setting the parameters of what is appropriate to he talked about or not, but this is going on a lot longer than a typical arrangement where there's no question of bail because this is not a bail eligible offense in new york. so even if he was a flight risk, or or, in some ways they were concerned with that. this is not a crime for which you can even ask for bail, so custody is not an issue and if he waved the rights there, then that's also not an issue and so i don't know what's going on therebu looking looking at thre on the screen, the lead procutor in this case is that's chris conroy, long term assistant district attorney and he's been there for a long tim the woman behind him, is susan hoffinger. she's the attorney who prosecutedfuy prosecuted the trump organization and got count conviction where herhe opposing counsel wh susan necklace, the woman seated to mr trump's right and then you have obviously the same judge, judge marshall john there and with the just to be clear that susan hoffinger is the woman. the general. the gentleman at the prosecutor's table is chris conroy, him with the black jacket andhite shirt. that's susan hoff, injure susan hoffinger sitting red sitting behind, so she is the head of the whole investigation division , which is the white colla arm of the manha d a s office. she she was a defense attorney before and she was a prosecutor before tt. and mr bragg d a brag brought her back to lead. his investigati division, which is of a it's an executive level position very prestigious. and like i said she was the trial lawyer who successfully tried the case against the trump organization and got the 1 count conviction on behalf of the office, and karen, who is the who is the t e table with chris cooy to our left his right in the blue dress is another ada on the case, who works in the major the team is going to haveis is multiple all attorneys on on it . and the question is, we just didn't know who going to be the lead lawy who isng to be speaking on the record, it could have been susan. half fingld have been peter pope. or others who are at an executeevel who are working on this case. chris conroy is a seor investigative counsel. he's just an idea. i should say he's he's an assistant district attorney, very senior season excellent lawyer who they are having be the a d. a who the a d, a meeting assistant district attorney who will be a reigning mr trump and speaking on the record and the interesting context you also brought up is that susan hoffinger, the woman with the white shirt and black jacket, sittingehd chris conroyprecutor's table , just defeated in cour. the man susan necklace in the green suit at the defendant's table right next to donald trump in the trump organization case, which was a big victory for district attorney alvin bragg. i believt? exactly exactly right. 17 felony count conviction against the trump organization and that that case ended in fines. i mean, it was as cvictions, and the case was successfully prosecuted from a prosecutor's perspective, but the end result was fine for the trump organization. i just think we have to keep that inxt , you know, even though this particular proceeding today, um has a lot of gravity to it. and the former president is sitting there at the defendant's table. there are a lot of possible outcomes, and some of them are other than the former president , ending up with a felony conviction. some of them could potentially be something as simple as a fine, absolutely and all of us should, in the in journalism and in the public should be skeptical and open minded when it comes to any accusations made by the government against any individual and we'll see exactly what the district attorney alvin bragg is. proceeding with against donald trump. when he brings this indictment forward with which we're told, has been unsealed, although we the public is still waiting to see it. um adam kaufman. let me just ask you when we're told. trump pleads not guilty to 34 counts, which is what a new york government official has told cnn . um 34 counts. what does that mean? is that 34? different felonies. is it 34 misdemeanors ? is it one felony and 34 counts of that one felony translate that into into public speaking for us? right so we don't know. we don't know what the counts are. we know because this is a felony indictment being arraigned in supreme court that at least one count is a felony. um if it's the falsifying business records under new york state procedural law. every time there was a false business record, it would have to be charged as a separate count. um and so it is entirely possible that it's all multiple counts because every fake check or every fake entry in a in a ledger would be its own discreet count. that's another possibility to go back to the way the arraignment probably worked. you would expect the court to simply generally, the court will simply inform the invite advised the defense. pendant that a new york county grand jury has filed an indictment charging you with and then they'll list the counts and then ask the defendant. how do you plead guilty or not guilty? and that's the point when mr trump would have entered his plea of not guilty, but at this point we just don't know at all of those different counts are and what the indictment contains . and how long does it take for an indictment to go from being unsealed, too? posted online, especially when you have when you have something that is of such public interest internationally. it's surprising to me. i mean, you know, in some of the more high profile cases that, um, were handled when i was there, and i know karen karen can also share this experience. you have it sort of teed up and ready to go. you know, you have to wait for the unsealing at the arraignment, but you also have someone sort of standing by to feed that indictment out because the media is waiting for it. so i'm a little surprised that we're not seeing it yet. interesting andy mccabe and any thoughts and reactions to this images we're getting from the inside this courtroom are just extraordinary . the annoyed chasing donald trump reports that he has pleaded not guilty to 34 charges were still waiting, of course to hear what they are still waiting to hear what they are and i would say, still waiting to understand what exactly is still taking place in that courtroom, he says, as other others have mentioned this is really going on. uh you know, at least twice as long as any of us expected. um my guess, and this is speculation is the you know the battling over issues and motions and scheduling has probably already begun one of the goals that the judge will have had in this first arraignment would be to set up at least a provisional schedule of when those motions would be do. um so you can imagine. we've we've already heard reporting from the trump legal team that they intend to fight. i think they said every issue related to this related to this case. and my guess is that those battles have probably already begun behind the closed doors and 100 center street. carrie cordero, let me ask you. the trump defense team has already signaled that they are immediately going to make a motion to have this case dismissed that they think it's nonsense that they don't think these charges hold water that it's misdemeanors, etcetera. would they make that motion at this court appearance or would it be for later appearance? normally i think they would take more time to be able to actually write out their motions. i mean, they could have started drafting it based on what they think was coming, but they got to really be able to look at the document, so i don't think they would make a motion to dismiss orally in front of the judge because they want to make every single possible written argument that they can in their brief, but i would expect that they would do it relatively soon. i don't i don't think it would be during this proceeding. but soon, karen let me ask you because one of the speculations and obviously we're going to get an answer to all of this. as soon as the manhattan district attorney posts the indictment. but one of the speculations is that the felony count will come from the idea that this business fraud was committed in the name of hiding another crime that in new york prosecutorial discretion is such that if you commit a misdemeanor in business fraud to hide a different crime than that could be upped to a felony. is that used often that kind of prosecution, so this is a common bread and butter charge for the district attorney's office. it's used in new york state, not just the manhattan d a s office but in in multiple counties around the state. it's a very common white collar fraud. uh charge it's called falsifying a business record. in the first degree. it's a class e felony, which is the lowest felony there is in in new york state, but it's very, very common, and the question is going to be a what is the charge that brings the falsifying a business record from the misdemeanor to felony? the misdemeanor? falsifying a business record is just when you with the intent to deceive you enter a false or erroneous. record you make a record entry that is false or erroneous in some way with the intent to deceive someone. what makes it a felony is when you make that erroneous entry and your intent to deceive includes the commission or concealment of another crime, and this has been a lot of speculation about what ? what's appropriate? and what could that other crime b and that's going to be the thing that i think most legal analysts are waiting to see if we get any indication of that from the unsealing of the indictment, because we might not know which crime they relied upon, or crimes because it could be multiple. they could have multiple theories of what the crimes are that they're thinking about. it also doesn't say in the statute whose crime you you are intending to conceal or commit. it could be, for example , that that the falsification was made in furtherance of the charges by michael cohen, who was already prosecuted and pled guilty in 2018, federally for this exact charge, so we just don't know what the crime will be that the district attorney used to elevate it to a felony and again, there's been a lot of questions about. is it okay to use a federal election law violation as the crime that makes this a felony, and that's going to be one of the legal arguments. i think that that the lawyers are going to make in this case, because that is something that although it's been done many times or several times i should say before. it's not ever been tested or litigated in court, and also the idea, karen and tell me if i'm wrong about this, but the idea that this this alleged campaign finance uh, falsification that the business fraud would have been covering up the hush money payments. um in 2016 that normally the statute of limitation. this is what i've been told is the theory would have run out. but because donald trump was in washington, d c for four years and then has been in florida. since leaving the white house. uh it's almost as if the statute of limitations is there's a pause button hit because he's no longer in new york. is that right? that's exactly right. so the statute of limitations for a felony in new york is five years, but there are a couple of pauses here. in addition to the one you just mentioned that he was outside the jurisdiction continuously when he was in washington, and don't forget, he also moved his residents from new york to florida. the governor of new york during the covid pandemic pressed pause on the statute of limitations for a period of time for all cases for all criminal cases in new york, and that that pause was for more than a year, so that is going to be another tolling is what they call it of the statute of limitations. that the prosecution will rely upon here. governor cuomo put pause on that for how long so that it's unclear because there were some that it was renewed and then it was stopped a couple of times. but i assure you that the lawyers at the manhattan d a s office have calculated exactly what that period of time is it with respect to this particular case? okay? jamie gangel when you're looking at these images, one of the things by the way, david urban was wondering about boris epstein, who is on the far right side by side of your screen who is really more of a political adviser than a lawyer sitting at the table, although i do believe he is an attorney, our own reporter sarah murray, notes that boris has made arguments before about not having to testify. and various legal proceedings in in prosecutions or investigations of donald trump by claiming that he has this privilege that attorneys are given right and he's not the only one we saw thought it was interesting. we saw jason miller come out through those doors. another aid . i don't know, andy. i can't imagine for normal people aids get to go back for processing, not typically, a lot of political advisers brought to arraignment day by and the many arrangements that i have seen, but as kari point but it out as as hard as they are trying to make this normal process. it just doesn't fit into that box in in many ways, and the former president has obviously a larger , uh, group with him than you normally see on arraignment day , but i think i think we all expected that there's just say there's a wide shot. we're not seeing it right now. but one of the things that's striking. there we go. there is no secret service agent right anywhere near him, and they're probably in the back standing against the wall. i spoke to some sources familiar with the secret service who have told me that that's exactly what would happen in this case that they just stand back from. from the situation and in some ways, i think you know the close ups of trump's face are quite striking, but seeing that wide shot where he is at the defense table, and you see the court police, he's in custody. he's he's in their control. ah i think is very striking. it's almost like any other defendant on any other day sitting in a courtroom, and i noted, you know, having covered trump. for a long time, his body language hunched over hands clasped between his legs. uh, jamie, you were talking about anger that is an angry trump that is someone whose lips are pursed. his eyes are, um are are small. he's looking right at the camera because he knows that they are there and what they're there to do. um he is. this is a frustrating moment for someone who, um, actually has tried in so many ways to use the justice system to do things that he has wanted to do, and has been frustrated when it hasn't happened. and now he finds that he is, um he calls himself a victim, but he is now the subject of the justice system itself, and it's a frustrating moment for him. i'm sure he's forced today. to live in reality . we're reading body language right now. pretty soon we'll get to read an indictment. that's the most important thing that will happen today, seeing what's actually on paper and what they can lay out to carrie's point about how do they connect the dots here but reading his body language? this is a man and he mentioned ceo s in court average joe's in court. this has to be a thud for him because he lives in a fantasy land. he's going to go back to mar-a-lago tonight, where he has an office that he made deliberately to look like the oval office where they have napkins with a seal that looks like the presidential seal. he calls his plane. trump force one, he insisted everybody call him mr president. he says that joe biden lost the election that he should have been reinstated already. he's not in that world anymore. he's in. he's a defendant in a trial case right now, one other point i just want to make. i'm just looking at twitter. donald trump jr just tweeted a picture of the judge's daughter, saying she worked for the biden harris campaign seems to be relevant. it is not relevant. it is not relevant. she's an individual adult, but this is what i was about to say. this is the game they play. it's not a game. it's not a game. this is how they play. they try to intimidate they attack. and they put at risk. people who should not be dragged into this process if donald donald trump is presumed innocent if he can beat these charges good for him . the judge's daughter has nothing to do with this, but this is what they do. this is how he they have so taken this country off the rails and outside the norms, and there's a reason why they took the prosecutors pictures. off the off the website for similar reasons, and it's really unfortunate that that is a world in which we live and you have people on social media doing what you just described. another thing that i keep thinking about is that trump fought back against. media companies against businesses. you know you name it for decades trying to use the threat of lawsuits by doing that one of the people in recent years um, well before it became president that he used as his chief henchmen. this is what he calls himself. was michael cohen . michael cohen was the man who kept him out of the very situation that we are looking at that he is in right now and today because michael cohen turned after he took the fall for donald trump. that is why. donald trump is sitting there right now, the man that he employed put him there again. it is not only necessarily michael kamen's testimony. we believe there's certainly documentation and evidence that are going to go into these 34 council. we're going to see soon but that those turn that turn of events is quite noteworthy. karen i want to ask you a question and then throw back to anderson. um when somebody within the president, the former president's circle like his son. uh or campaign or people directly affiliated with him. posts an image of the daughter of the judge. at a time where political violence is increasingly becoming. more and more normal and more and more accepted. is that something that the judge could admonish the defendant and those in his immediate circle to not do or is that something that people just now except as a modern reality that will that will not be accepted. that will not be okay . in fact, the fact that this is going on significantly longer than anyone would have anticipated much longer than a normal arrangements. leads me to believe that the judges having some sort of very serious discussions in court right now, because motion practice and all the things that donald trump wants to do make the arguments about whether the statute of limitations or sufficiency of the grand jury or whether a charge counts as elevating it to false business record that will all be done in writing in motion practice will be briefed by lawyers at another date right now, the only thing that's happening in court. it was just supposed to be an arraignment. it would not be anything about custody or bail since this crime is not bail eligible. so what could they possibly be talking about? i think it's the fact that donald trump has crossed a massive line here in new york when he went when he had a picture of himself with a baseball bat to alvin bragg's head. and then right after that, calling in his way, calling for death and destruction in the streets that crossed a line in new york, he could have easily be charged with another crime there, obstruction of governmental administration. because he was trying to intimidate using intimidation and threats to interfere with the court process, doing the same thing to the judge these veiled threats to his daughter. that's another. he's they're committing more crimes, and so whether he gets arrested for them is a decision that will have to be made by law enforcement. but i can assure you this judge judge marshawn is not going to put up with it, and this judge knows the trump organization and trump and his ways and his allies. he sat in. it was the judge who presided over the trump organization trial. so he is not a stranger to the ways of donald trump and donald trump's orbit, and he will absolutely have a pre prepared and pre planned speech and admonition that he is giving to two different. he is defendant trump right now before judge marshawn and letting him know what that means. and what as the judge of this court will expect of him as a defendant. anderson back to you. yeah adam kaufman has been watching this. adam karen was just talking about the one possible thing that the judges discussing what else would account for the length of time here. we talked earlier about whether this indictment tells a story. whether it's just a dry recitation of facts or if it's a lengthier indictment. that sort of tells a story. i'm wondering if that plays a role here as well. you know anderson it it's not unless. certainly a possibility, in which case they're reading. however many pages and however many counts. this is i've, you know, in 18 years as a prosecutor, i never saw that happen, but it's certainly possible, but it's to karen's point. an arrangement takes five minutes. it's over and done with, especially here. there's no bail consideration. there's nothing really to talk about. motions are made on papers. they're not made orally . even if defense counsel wanted to stand up and give a speech for five minutes about how outrageous this is. you know, i still can't imagine what could possibly be taking this much time. karen we had talked earlier about the eye. adam had brought up the idea of a conspiracy count. um talk a little bit about what that might entail. if in fact there is such a thing why that would be important. yes. so interestingly what it says right there on the monitor. trump pleads not guilty to 34 felony counts with that tells me is there may not be a conspiracy charge because the charges that we expect to see here are falsifying a business record in the first degree, which is a class e felony, the lowest level felony. and a conspiracy to commit that crime would make it an a misdemeanor. so to adam's point that he made earlier about what would the i'm sorry, karen. it looks like they're about to come out of the courtroom. let's listen into the whole question. they put. so obviously any thoughts that the president former president was going to be coming to cameras and not not obviously not happening. whether or not he wanted to. we don't know he is still in the custody and correct me. if i'm wrong, ellie, he's still in the custody of authorities until he walks out that door. anderson. he is in the custody of the hendricks attorney. additional attorney's office presumably has been released on his own recognizance, which means he will come back whenever he is told. we should get a sense of what the schedule is what we will learn coming out of this. of course, the biggest thing is the indictment itself, and we're still waiting on that it has now been unsealed. it should be available to the public. it's possible. they were waiting for this proceeding to end before they posted it. we also should get a sense of the schedule moving forward. when will discovery be do and when will motions be made, so we'll have a sense of how this is going to proceed, and we'll also learn presumably what took so long in there was the judge talking to them about some of the over the line statements that have been made just in terms of what is happening right now. so the former president has left ttroom here? so now they are going to take him out of the building, probably the same way that they brought him in, which is through a separate elevator that's typically only available to judges and the district attorney. it's the will take him from the 15th floor all the way down to the first floor, where he will then walk out of what's hogan place? entrances. street right here is called hogan place. it's a very tiny little street in lower manhattan, named after district attorney hogan and they'll put him in a car and he's it's over point. is he no longer in custody. when you exit. he's no longer in custody. now he's he's under guard because he they have to protect him. but as soon as he is real least from court. he's no longer in leaving now. i believe john. presumably he was released on his own recognizance. we don't we have ears in the courtroom, but they're trying to get to places to communicate to us, but he'll he'll get in the same motorcade package that brought him here. that will take him back to laguardia airport, where his plane is standing by. and he is scheduled to fly out of new york today. now this is all subject to change. but the plan was to fly out of new york today on his private jet to mar-a-lago without coming back to trump tower to hold a press conference and what we've seen is for all the discussions about making a statement on the way in or a statement on the way out. at the courthouse. that obviously didn't happen so that motorcade is now on the move. also standing by laura coates. john dean are joining us. laura coates. we haven't heard from you today that the former president now leaving the court building. um they're heading back to other johnny. think trump tower, or do you think the airport? they're going out there sticking to the schedule. they're going straight to laguardia airport straight to his private jet and straight back to palm beach coach. what do you make of the lengthy arraignment? well, listen, there has only been 46 presidents in the history of our country and millions of criminal defendants . and look what we have now, one who is now a criminal defendant on his way out of the courtroom and extraordinary amount of time to have him there are likely trying to argue a point about the relevance of this particular case. i assume his lawyers were the ones to do so, but note who was behind him in that courtroom . you didn't have secret service you had to presumable marshals, one with handcuffs dangling on her own waste. span and appeared to wear gloves. you're seeing the conduct of what would happen for every criminal defendant in this country, and donald trump was now one of them going forward. the schedule is gonna be so important importantly, anderson look for that motion pretrial motion briefing schedule that we will have the motions to dismiss that we will have the challenges as to whether this is likely to be inappropriate elevation from a misdemeanor to a felony offense that's going to be the next consequential step here. and of course, whatever this president now set, former president now says about this. we know the law and order adage. anything he says can and will be used against him, including his statements on social media, and even through different agents on his behalf. i want to go to katelyn polantz. who is you know on the 15th floor. katelyn polantz other former president as he exited the courthouse. i'm wondering from your vantage point, which you saw. go remarkable that he did not come over to reporters. we were about 50 ft. away from where he was there, and he was expected to come speakers before , but he was in that quote about 45 minutes or so much longer, i would say a little bit longer than one of the attorneys have said beforehand they believed he was going to be and therefore they predicted about 30 minutes or so, and they had expected it to be a relatively smooth profits. obviously did not look pleased. courtroom um, i will say. we officer and the bare metal barricades you can see they turned them around the way that focuses like a club type thing in the middle. they them so it did not appear to be walking over to the unclear why , without officials here why the barricades were there in the direct access to it, but that is, you know, ultimately part of why he did not come over. to the media as we were standing there obviously did not look pleased. you could see it on stage despite his attorney saying that you know he was in a brazilian mood earlier today. let's go straight to caress canal got just got out of the courtroom. carol, what have you learned? our i'm in a very crowded space . but i hope you can hear me president on the air. the former president pleaded not guilty to 34 counts of falsifying business records. in the first degree. those are all selling accounts. prosecutors said that this was part of a conspiracy that started in 2015 and involves the payment of at least $130,000 for me, daniel. um as part of the allegations, prosecutors said that this was part of an effort. to promote his candidacy by burying negative stories ahead of the election, and now we don't have all the additional details of what else might be included in this, but that is how they outlined it in court. now in this brief, what was that about 45 minutes arrangements and the former president entered the room. it was so quiet. you can hear a pin drop. he walked in. he looked his lips. he was standing. each of the roads filled with crab. there were about 60 members of the press in there. trope, flanked by court security officers. we were not allowed to use any electronic devices that we've all of kind of interesting filing out now to report the news. he spoke only a few times we not guilty entre zone. he also was addressed by the judge who addressed to him. some of this threatening, seaman said he made that was something that prosecutors have raised. they had asked the judge not to impose any kind of gag water but just to raise issues of trump threatening. media posts. they handed out copies of those posts to the court and to trump. the judge said that he was not going to impose any kind of gag water . he said it he wouldn't even if he was out right now, but he did warn the former also, the prosecutors warned their witnesses his hands down. their rhetoric reduced what they're saying about the case and the judge warrants from both sides, but particularly speaking to former president trump not to make any statements that would incite any violence or threats against any officials. you know, former president has. but and number. we're having problems with carol will try to get back in contact elie honig anderson. we're getting our first look at the indictment and with the proviso that we have not yet had a chance to read all of it a couple of initial impressions. first of all, this is what we call a bare bones indictment. contrary to what we are discussing before this essentially just lays out the statutory language, the name the date of each offense, but there is not a lot of detail in what we're seeing at this moment, uh , there do appear to be 34 charges in here. there does not appear to be and we're looking at it for the first time. there does not appear to be a conspiracy charge per se. now, that doesn't mean they can still explain the whole scheme at trial, but it looks like these are charges based on falsifying of business records and then falsifying business records in order to commit or conceal some other crimes. so those are some initial impressions as we page through this indictment for the first time. karen interestingly , it it does not. uh, where are you getting this? ah i was given a copy. okay go ahead, but i do . i have been given us there is a state they did file a statement of facts in addition to this bare bones indictment, the indictment itself doesn't talk about whether or not the what crime was relied upon to bump it up from a misdemeanor to a felony. but it is but there is language in by way of a statement of facts that was also filed along with the indictment , which is indictment number 71543 of 23 23 is with respect to the year 2023. there's an introduction that talks about how donald trump this is again the statement of facts. how donald trump repeatedly and fraudulently falsified. business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election, so right from the outside this this is all about election interference , and that's how they're framing it. then it says from about august 2015 to december 2017, the defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 president, presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the defendant's electoral prospects. and it says, in order to execute this unlawful scheme that participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entry entities in new york. so the so the da's office here is relying on election laws as the crimes that were being either concealed or committed to elevate the falsifying business records to a felony. it says one component of the scheme was that at the defendant's request, a lawyer who then worked for the trump organization as special counsel to the to the defendant. they're calling him lawyer, a covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election. so this is talking about michael cohen paying stormy daniels $130,000. it then goes on to describe how that's done and the false business records that are used or that were created to conceal the payment. so after the election, this lawyer then goes on to, um they describe how each check was processed and disguised for payment of legal services. separate count. each check appears to be a separate. can't some of them? uh some of these, there were invoices, and that would be as adam kaufman was saying earlier each entry of a false information into a business record would be its own count. and so each. each item has its own count. this statement effect then goes on and talks about a background. there's a section called background before that was the introduction and it talks about the trump organization from approximately june 2015 and 2017 . and then it talks about a scheme. they call it the scheme. and they call it the catch and kill scheme to suppress negative information. and then it goes on and gives very detailed facts. there was a trump tower meeting at 20 and in 2015, and then it says a few months later, they tried to suppress a doorman's story. um and there's just a lot of information in here that that would love to digest and come back and tell. but this statement of facts that was filed by the district attorney's office is to tell mr trump um uh , first and foremost, and his legal team. what evidence was presented to a grand jury and what will be relied upon at trial and what will be proven at trial. i just want to go to cnn's karasin scannell, who's gotten out of the courtroom carried described just what you heard and saw in court as we continue to look over the indictments, it's all flash or anybody. well anderson when the former president entered the courtroom, you could hear a pin drop. he entered, he scanned each and every row filled with reporters, and he had a bit of a scowl on his face. you walked very slowly to the defense table . then he didn't speak until the judge asked him to enter a plea on 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree in the former president said in his voice that we all know not guilty. the judge. the prosecutor is also asked the judge to address the rhetoric that former president has made both by the verbal attacks he's placed on the judge. as well as the district attorney alvin bragg, and the judge said that he was concerned about the statements. an attorney for donald trump blanche, who just came onto the team. he said that trump was frustrating and that he has not had a chance to address all of these allegations that the prosecution and their witnesses, including michael cohen, have gone out and publicly spoken about. but the judge said that he didn't agree that this was justified by frustration, and he said he would warn both sides both the prosecution and donald trump to tamp it down their rhetoric. he wasn't going to impose any kind of gag order, but he also warned them that they needed to address this to tamp down. and not incite any violence little out of breath because i had to run around the block because the security is so tight here to get out of the building. take some breaths. basically it from president he didn't he, um he wasn't asked really any other questions to engage, which is normal in an arraignment. there's really just a little engagement from the actual defendant. i think we see him and his motorcade leaving out there. his attorneys are speaking to the cameras. after you gotta move. can you explain why one second one second one second. let us know when they're rolling guys. we have the attorneys 5441 2nd. go ahead. you're on. it's not a happy day. day for this country. i think that can you hear on your on? think that what you saw? okay i hear you guys today is exactly what i can hear. you can hear the past seven years, saying that the district attorney has turned what is actually a completely political issue into a political prosecution. and it's not a good day. it's not a sad day. um i don't expect i don't expect this to happen in this country. you don't expect this to happen. to somebody who was the president of the united states and on the one hand on the one hand, there's not really any surprises. i know there was a lot of talk over the past several weeks in the past several days about what's going to be in this indictment, and it's going to be there that we don't know there must be something besides what we've been talking about for the past four or five years. there wasn't there's nothing the indictment itself is boilerplate. it doesn't allege any federal crime and the state crime that's been violated. it doesn't allege what the false statement is, and it's really disappointing. it's sad and we're going to fight it. we're going to fight it hard. anything in the we're you surprised. were you surprised by anything in the entire were you surprised? surprised there are no facts in there. i mean, normally indictment you have alleged facts, so they said that this was a false business record entry to eight in a bed, another crime. we're not staying with the other crime was. can you talk about his demeanor? how is he doing? reaction was charges against him. when you say what his reaction is. what do you expect? his reaction was? i mean his reaction. his reaction was exactly what would happen if it happened to anybody that i'm looking at now or anybody. that's hearing what you're saying, um, he's frustrated. he's upset, but i'll tell you what he's motivated. and it's not going to stop him and it's not going to slow him down. and it's that's exactly what he expected. and so, to that extent , no sir problems, but he's also he's also he's awesome, upset and frustrated. disappointed. what about the warnings against . it was not a woman from the gut talking about district attorney statement addressing what they proceed to be doing it. i'm not sure what the words they use for your rhetoric of some sort. um obviously you responded, and the judge just took it in. that's the parties to consider what they're saying and not saying he did not admonished present and that's important president not incite violence or civil unrest. he did not requested the president, not use language. he requested that everybody in both parties from using languages inappropriate by the way that includes that includes course witnesses, witnesses for the people who were talking just as much as the former president swinging a baseball about it. the head of the manhattan well, i don't know where you got that. because if you know it wasn't first of all . first of all, first of all, that picture was not him swinging a baseball bat. i mean, if you want to distort the facts, go right ahead. i want to address that. yes it is. he wasn't swinging a baseball bat at anyone's head. that was a picture of him showing off american made bad, but someone else put a picture of the digital attorney next to him. and in an article posted that that's not social, using language that incites does talk about today. what we're gonna talk about that we can talk about the insufficiency of this case, and i will say this to you today is a feeling of this indictment shows that the rule of law died in this country because everyone is not above the law. no one's below it either. and if this man's name was knocked donald j. trump there is no scenario. we'd all be here today. please understand that based on these charges are going to get speaks. when tonight. eight o'clock. what are we gonna do? don't know. you'll hear it, in your child. can you january? you think that was realistic? can you guys talk about? there's a lot of speculation about the unity among the defense attorneys. look at this. look at us. is that why you chose to do this together together? we know that together so we could speak with one voice. but there is no disunity here, gossip and it's nonsense. we've been working together and we will be working together. this could be quite frankly, is the best team i've ever worked with the lawyers. um i'm honored to be working with these guys. it's a family. it's team and we have one mission and will achieve that. next move. what's your next move? i'm gonna go home and absolute about the change of venue violence. when do you start filing motions? i'm assuming one of the first things you're gonna do emotional schedule. assume that will be something that emotion schedule that requires motion files and four months, so that's a good pilot notion about now, this is sort of like a novel or do you not a notional actually talk about that, but like just to the district attorney this. this this office has existed for decades and decades and you have you can find one if you like. you will never see your charts like this, um, ever. you understand this is this state prosecutor prosecuting federal election law violation that doesn't exist. the federal election officials simple as that, that you could summer all of like that. will there be anything else in your motion to dismiss we haven't even come close to change of venue. talk someone address that now could potentially post discovery on social media to your client will be that won't happen more than more than us committing his event you a lot of posting on social media. we're not. we're not having any discussion about what we pulled over about the change of venue. just answer this question about the change of venue. there's a lot of premature, right. so why is he? why is he talking about that? and why is he trying to move this to a place like staten once again with three lawyers here to litigate and fight this case? we're not pr consultants were not social media consultants. donald trump has made one hell of a brand and became president of united states with his social media and posting everything else his messages. we are here to talk about the case and litigate cases. we can't address what he posted what he wants to post or his attorneys. have you told, stop posting this rhetoric said before we can, literally we can't tell you what we've discussed. are you concerned? that means continuing to go after the judge? talking about the judge's wife talking about family. i mean, are you because i mean i was concerned about, but any other defendants? wouldn't you be like defendant want to be here today after the judge? he is not going after the judge commented that he thought that there were some issues that may cause a conflict that's not going after the judge. he's not threatening not going after the going after the said that the d. a. he is angry. because the d a has brought a case that is unjustified, and so i'm not going to comment on it. or you may disagree with the way he spoke, processed fingerprinted. was there a market to talk about it? in fact, i think i thank you for your attention. mar-a-lago with her. thank you. counselors. big mama's just been listening to the defense attorneys for the former president. cnn's paula reid is also at court. poli you've got new details on the indictment. what jumps out at you? polar read, are you there? are you been reading them? hello so go ahead. paula we've been looking over the indictment will release what really stands out to me here in layman's terms that they're accusing the former president of engaging in a scheme to hide unlawful activity from the public both before and after the 2016 election, alleging that he engaged in what are called catch. kill schemes where you pay someone for their story and then suppress it to boost his electoral prospects. now they're 0.3 specific instances. the first is a $30,000 payment made to a doorman who alleged that the former president had had a child out of wedlock. the second payment that we know about is $150,000 that was paid to karen macdougal alleges she had an extramarital affair. and they also point to $130,000 that was given to stormy daniels, who also alleges she had a sexual relationship with then candidate trump. then they go on to say that the way these were reimbursed, particularly when it comes to $130,000 is paid to stormy daniels. they say, look, these were falsely labeled as legal expenses and then mischaracterized for tax purposes, so it's interesting that they're trying to elevate this case by tying it directly to the outcome of the 2016 election. that is an argument that the district attorney's office has amplified that this isn't just a quote unquote people work crime. this was something that could have impacted the outcome of the election. but what i don't see in here is any explanation or any new facts that would make it clear to the american public. why this is coming out. now we're talking about conduct that accords seven years ago, something that's been under investigation for five years, and it's unclear based on this set of facts. if it will be clear to the jury that this is something that he should be convicted on and that there is no political motivation here now the district attorney in a short time, we'll have a press conference and he may be able to speak to why he is bringing this case at this very moment. but i don't see anything really new here. paula appreciate that. i want to go to l. a hoenig. ellie, i know you've been looking over the indictments a few big picture takeaways, anderson. so first of all, this indictment appears to be based only on the payment of hush money. we had talked about. could there be some unexpected twist here? the answer is no. there is no allegation relating to tax crimes. there is no allegation relating to over or undervaluation of trump oregon assets. there's no allegation here relating to obstruction of justice or threats. so this is a hush money based indictment. now the indictment itself is bare bones. it just lays out the statutory language, and that's it. but there is a 13. page statement of facts that goes into some detail. it looks like the way we ended up with 34 charges here is prosecutors have charged each separate business record entry as account each check each ledger entry. each voucher is its own count. that's how we arrive at 34. it appears and again, the indictment itself gives us very little information really just dates. and references to the business record. it appears the actual criminal charges are based on the stormy daniels payoff and reimbursement scheme based on the dates here because the dates are in 2017. that is when the trump org was reimbursing michael cohen, who made the original payments, um the way each of these counts is structured. people should maybe think of it as two levels level one here would be a misdemeanor that is just falsification of business records. if donald trump knew or was part of falsification of business records, that is a misdemeanor, now, level two to each of these counts is if those records were falsified in connection with some other crime. now, here's what's interesting to me, and i'd be interested to get karen's take on this is the indictment doesn't tell us and joe tacopina was just talking about this. the indictment actually does not say what those other crimes are now , presumably based on the statement of facts that we have they relate to campaign finance, but i don't know how unusual it is. i would think that indict the whole purpose of an indictment is to serve notice to the defendant. so what they say here is falsification of business records, which is a misdemeanor, and they falsified business records 34 times over to commit some other crime. but again, they don't the prosecutors don't say what that other crime is. karen. we heard from the defense attorneys saying, essentially, there's nothing new here is that do you agree with that? i think there's a lot. that's new here. i think the fact that this is framed as an election interference case, the fact that it includes the payment to the doorman as well as susan mcdougal and stormy daniels. i think we all expected the stormy daniels part but we just didn't know that this other information would be included in the indictment, and i think the fact that they didn't charge conspiracy is something that's taken a few people by surprise. but uh, just to answer eli's question about what crime elevates this to the felony, and the statute itself is penal law section 1 75.10. of the new york penal law, falsifying business records in the first degree, and it says, if you if you commit the crime of falsifying business records as the misdemeanor what which is what ellie was talking about, but with the intent when your intent to defraud includes the intent to commit, or another crime or eight or conceal the commission thereof. and the operative word there is you intended to do it. you didn't have to complete it right? you didn't have to even have anything even coming close to completing it. and i like to analogize this to a burglary, which is something that people are very familiar with, and a burglary is a charge of trespass that if you intend to commit a crime there in you, then it's a felony burglary and oftentimes the person doesn't actually commit the actual felony once they are in there, because they're either caught ahead of time or somehow, the their actions were foiled and so, and prosecutors might not know what intent what crime the burglar was intending to commit their in. it could be a sexual assault. it could be a theft. it could be violent crime, some other violent crime, and prosecutors don't have to specify which one they just have to prove that the intention was there and so i think that's what they're doing here. in this case, there's that the intention is to commit or conceal a crime. and which one is it? we might not know. perhaps it was the intention to commit attacks. crime that he then didn't do ultimately, but it's still of his intention is there that is what is going on? i think it's seeing a couple of interesting things that emerged just with the release of these documents. number one, um, the disappointment, i think for us of a bare bones indictment, where it's just listing the charges in the statutes, but number two telling a story that has a clear narrative, right, but number two, along with that they release as karen is a statement of facts. that's a different document that goes beyond what's in the indictment. so it appears. what d a brag is doing is because he can only really discuss things that are on the public record within the four corners of those two documents is bare bones indictment without a whole story attached to it, but a statement of facts that gives him the additional latitude in his upcoming uh, press conference to expand on the indictment and talk about the reasons behind it. and it appears that you know out of the public statement that comes with both of those documents. it was falsifying new york business records in order to conceal damaging information and unlawful activity from american voters before and after the 2016 election. so that is where he is laying out a motive that goes with the story that goes with the charges standing by. you've also been looking at this. well interesting. i just want to add on to what john was saying there because i just want to add to what john was saying there because in the in court today, one of the prosecutors laid out what this theory was. he said that these falsified business records were done with the intent to commit another crime. specifically he said, to undermine the integrity of the 2016 presidential election and as part of an on lawful effort to promote trump's candidacy that they were doing these these deals to bury some of these stories, now one of the allegations in this relates to the stormy daniels payment. according to the indictment, david pecker had reached out to michael cohen with knowledge that stormy daniels was wanted to go public with her story. this was just after the access hollywood tape had become public and really was, you know a shock to the canada see it cause a lot of concern within his campaign now, according to the indictment. that trump had wanted michael cohen to hold off on paint stormy daniels until after the election because he thought that it would not go public and that he would be able to keep it from going public. and it wouldn't matter then unless it came out after the election, so that's part of what prosecutors are trying to show was trump's knowledge and intent in trying to disguise this to hide this story. support in tying it directly to the campaign. that is one of the issues here. of what you know why would he do this and part of the state law that they could be arguing that they're trying to apply here is that he was trying to promote his candidacy. and so this would be an effort by the prosecution to show that trump had knowledge of this payment and that he was tying it directly to the campaign. of course, that will be up to a jury to decide anderson. all right. i want to go back to jake and dc jake. anderson joining me now to react exclusively to the just unsealed mr trustee. thanks so much for joining us a big picture. what is your reaction to the indictment? well, in a sense, i'm happy that there's not more surprises to it. you know, it's kind of bare bones. it's a little defensive in that fashion. um and it still has. i think legal frailties that accompany the credibility for lt's and lend themselves to some pretrial litigation. how do you mean? what are the frailties? what are the weaknesses in this case? yeah well, it's all the stuff we were kind of thinking we're going to see, but we weren't 100% sure. and again. i've barely had a chance to even skim the indictments. i don't want to overstate it. but look, there's a lot of i mean, there's a lot of legal gymnastics going on here, you know, trying to felony to make felonies out of misdemeanors to avoid a statute of limitations problem that's the kind of blatantly the underpinning for all of this, and you know we can gloss over and you've got people are talking about the specific intent as if it's not that big a deal that you can prove it a number of different ways, but it's huge here. you know, you're talking about a specific intent to essentially break federal law that's not only unchartered territory that's perilous territory. so again, it's early. i don't want to take the place of the new york team. that's on it. and i'm sure they'll give it a hard look and give it some some serious thought. but i think that you're you'll see very robust motions to dismiss that will have some weight to them. that may well take this case out of play this year. there are three specific actions , generally speaking that the indictment discusses one of them is $130,000 payment, uh, from michael cohen, then donald trump's attorney slash fixer to stormy daniels. one is a $150,000 payment made from the national enquirer apparent company. am i to karen macdougal , a former playboy playmate of the month, who also had alleged relationship with donald trump. and then third a payment from am i to adore man of for a claim he was making that ami later determined to be false. um do you dispute those three actions, which ah, i'm not sure i suspect that the district attorney is alleging that these are violations of federal election. ah! laws even though i don't think they go after the president, the former president for those laws, but do you do? do you dispute these assertions that these three actions happened? yeah well, i'm not. i'm not gonna, you know, try the case with you that way or piecemeal it. let me just say like that's not going to add up to a case where alvin bragg has jurisdiction. never mind the complete lack of discretion. never mind the fact that it's a personal political persecution when it comes to announcing target first and trying to string together evidence later. but that's what it goes to. you know when you have a guy that runs for office, saying i will get donald trump. it shouldn't be a surprise that he will string together a flimsy case because he feels like, hey, this is how i got here. i've got to do it, and it turns upside down how prosecutors are supposed to act in this country to begin judiciously. and that's not where we are. we're picking and choosing a target to try to pin charges on and you know, it's a sad day. do you? do you know any details about what happened when mr trump went in for processing before he went into the courtroom. yeah i don't you know, again. i'm on the mar-a-lago and j six side of things. the last thing that the new york team needed was a bunch of phone calls for me for media consumption. i assume it was what everybody predicted. you know, this is a for all of the excitement, all the hoopla. it's actually a very routine court appearance. they're handled consistently other white collar. cases that i've had have kind of gone down the same road when it when you talk about, you know, turning yourself in to face the charges in the arrangement, so i suspect that was pretty easily done. we're told that the prosecution in the courtroom raised issues about some of donald trump. mr trump's media, social media rather, postings worried about inciting and the judge told everybody not just donald trump told everybody to watch what they say in terms of inciting as somebody who represents donald trump. on other issues. the january 6th and the documents cases that the special counsel here in d c are investigating is that of issue to you is out of concern that donald trump president trump does go on social media and gets his base whipped up. well it's certainly be a concern. if the judge issued a gag order, you know, kind of completing the cycle for doj and for new york and georgia and trying to silence the leading contender for presidency of being amazing moment to think that first amendment would allow them to gag him, so they made a run at it. the judge basically said, i don't want to see anything. i hope that the judges also equal handed when it comes to leaks, because at least on the doj side and i suspect from what i've seen in new york so far, it'll be the same that there are one sided leaks. incomplete leagues , leaks to pressure witnesses that are flying out by the dozen . so you know there's a lot of behavioral stuff that needs to be looked at on the prosecution side. i'm not too worried. about an occasional truth or an occasional moment where a man who has every right to be frustrated, says something publicly. the prosecution has suggested that stormy daniels, the adult film star and director , at who was at the center of this case, in terms of the hush money payment to her, will be called to testify. um, does that concern you at all? not particularly, i mean, look, you know pretty funny tonight circuit today added onto her tab of what she owes the president for breaching the nondisclosure agreement. but look at the end of the day stormy daniels looks like almost a credible witness. you know michael cohen, as is a convicted perjurer disbarred lawyer guy was an ax to grind and you know anybody that's even watch law and order once would love the opportunity to cross examine that guy. so you know they can put window dressing all around it and say, look, it's not just him. it's documents. it's stormy, but it's him. it's michael cohen is a guy that basically at least if you listen to bob costello perjured himself in front of the grand jury again, and they're gonna that's again. that's when it shows you it's politically motivated. no reasonable prosecutor would go to bat with michael cohen is your star witness, but alvin bragg is not a reasonable prosecutor. is it? not true that michael cohen brought documentation for the charges he's made and those documentations are at the core of the 34 count indictment of donald trump, which i've never heard. i have yet to hear anybody dispute the facts in the indictment. i realized it's early yet, but as as a matter of fact, it does appear that michael cohen was telling the truth on these hush money payments. well that's you're making a little bit of elite. but look nondisclosure agreements we can demonize. it's a hush hush money and, you know, talk about how salacious it is. you know, if that was illegal congress had been a lot of trouble, right. you've got an entire fund set up for congressional endoscope based on harassment, so it's not illegal to have it. nobody's disputing whether there was a nondisclosure agreement. the ninth circuit just found out who violated it and has to pay attorney's costs. the issue is the credibility in terms of deciphering some sort of intent, looping some sort of federal felony into the case, and it's just not going to come together . it was a political promise. alvin bragg made and he's he's run through if i wanted to point to a particular document that significant it would be the federal case against him. you know, they had an interest in trying to make it into a federal prosecution. nobody would ever accused the u. s attorney's office in manhattan of being afraid of going after donald trump. they set it up in his plea with with the federal election violation is one of the charges with all the other stuff that that cohen had been involved in, and then he failed as a cooperator. and they couldn't even give him the five k departure. they couldn't even give him the credit. for being an honest cooperator in that case fell apart. so alvin bragg is picking up the trash that the u. s attorney's office wouldn't touch that his predecessor wouldn't touch that he wouldn't even touch the first time but now for whatever back reason, you know, back channel reason it will be real real interested in pushing for information about how he made this decision. now we've got this case. we'll have to deal with it. but pretrial motions should be very powerful . just as the point of fact, i believe the issue is not whether or not an n d a is legal. it's the question about whether or not if you're paying somebody to be quiet because of an election whether or not that counts as an election expense that needs to be counted as such, but but let's move on because i want to ask you. the next court appearance in this case is not until december. it's april. now that's a considerable amount of time away. are you concerned that it's so far away? and that much closer to 2024? would you like it to be moved up? well i'm not really, you know, paid to be on the political side among the legal side, and so i don't want to speak out of turn on. anything i would say is because i think most of us anticipated an indictment that would have the frailties. this one has the idea of trying to expedite a motion to dismiss is not not totally foreign, so we'll see if we're stuck with december. we're stuck with december but i know that, um yeah, the attorneys will get their heads together and figure out if there's a way to try to push this earlier. i think the december date is probably a pretty typical kind of auto generated date when it comes to a new case coming in the door, but i like the idea of at least resolving some important motions to dismiss earlier rather than later, but but we'll see trump attorney jim trustee. thank you so much for your time really appreciate it. all right. good seeing you and carrie cordero. um i mean, you heard jim trustee. they're talking about what? he called the frailties of the case. what i've heard other people, including you talk about, um, how strong this case may be or may not be, um, your reaction now that you've had a chance to go through it. um is it what you thought it was going to be? and are you? unimpressed it is what i thought it was going to be, um, in terms of focusing on the payments that were made the falsification of the records in really tied to the payment that was made to stormy daniels in terms of a case that's being brought against a former president. it's a little underwhelming. um there's not more to it. there's not more violations tax violations. there's not an incredible new set of facts that we didn't know about publicly. it's really the facts of this case, as they have existed for basically almost seven years we've known about quite a bit of this. i mean, anderson interviewed stormy daniels and karen macdougal. years ago, right and we knew about this as well as the payments, so the facts are almost seven years long, and the facts are pretty stale. and what the d a s office has done is put that together in a theory of the fact that the, uh former president falsified his business records enable to in order to enable those that payment to be made to her. to the extent that the documents appear to link that to the effect that it would have theoretically had on the 2016 election brings into the picture, then whether or not the d a s office is really arguing that this was campaign finance violations, which is something that the u. s. justice department. never charged with respect to the former president himself. he was not charged with campaign finance violations, so that is probably the basis upon which the former president's defense attorneys are going to make a number of motions and legal arguments. let me bring in katelyn polantz, who's been in the court building all day and caitlin, tell us about what happened in that room when the judge spoke to the attorneys. what such a remarkable moment i mean, we were wondering what was going on for so long that trump attorneys had predicted it would be about a 30 minute hearing and they're obviously it went longer than that. and when those three defense attorneys came out, including the newest member of the team, todd blanche, who spoke first as you saw when he came out and he was speaking there with reporters. excuse me, jake. obviously we're sitting right outside the courthouse. it's a little bit loud over here. blanche came out and he was arguing that he believed it was boilerplate language in this indictment that nothing really surprised him. but the conversation quickly turned into questions to those attorneys to the four presidents, social media posts about this case, which we know they spent time on with the judge there in the room behind closed doors because trump is posted in recent days about the judge himself claiming in all caps, letters that he hates him criticizing, of course of how he presided over alan weiss dahlberg case that was the chief financial officer for the trump organization. he is also obviously gone after the district attorney in this case, alvin bragg, calling him an animal, calling him a racist attacking him at length. and also there was the question about that post that trump had posted on truth social, which included a link to a photo of alvin bragg next to a photo of trump holding a baseball bat. in a photo from his time at the white house, and it was just remarkable to see those three trump attorneys spending a lengthy amount of time right after they got out of the courthouse where their client just pleaded not guilty. defending his social media post you heard joe tacopina, saying he wasn't swinging the baseball bat in that picture, saying, we're not. social media consultants were not p r consultants were attorneys, but we are seeing how those two things are colliding here because those social media posts by the former president were brought up there inside the courtroom when it came to what he has said about alvin bragg and about the case at large, and just a remarkable moment there to see how that has affected this, and trump attorneys have kind of struggled with this, saying they believe some of them were ill, ill advised, saying, that's not really their purview , but certainly when you're a trump attorney what he does post on social media, especially when it's about a case. okay caitlin desantis upped. i'm sorry. well here's the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg. let's listen in. on the new york supreme court indictment. returned by manhattan grand jury on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. under new york state law is a felony. to falsifying business records with intent to defraud and intent to conceal another crime. that is exactly what this case is about. 34 false statements. made to cover up other crimes. these are felony crimes in new york state. no matter who you are. we cannot and will not normalized serious criminal conduct. the defendant repeatedly made false statements on new york business records. he also caused others to make false statements. the defendant claimed that he was paying michael cohen. for legal services performed in 2017. this simply was not true. and it was a false statement that the defendant made month after month in 2017. april. may june and so on. through the rest of the year. for nine straight months. the defendant held documents in his hand containing this key lie. that he was paying michael cohen for legal services performed in 2017. any personally signed checks. for payments to michael cohen for each of these nine months. in total, the grand jury found there were 34 documents with this critical false statement. why did donald trump repeatedly make these false statements? the evidence will show that he did so to cover up crimes relating to the 2016 election. donald trump. executives at the publishing company, american media incorporated. mr cohen and others agreed in 2015 to a catch and kill scheme that is a scheme to buy and suppress negative information to help mr trump's chance of winning the election. as part of this scheme, donald trump and others made three payments to people who claim to have negative information about mr trump. to make these payments they set up shell companies. and they made yet more false statements, including, for example, in am i. american media incorporates. business records. one of the three people that they paid. keep quiet was a woman named stormy daniels. less than two weeks before the presidential election. michael cohen. white $130,000 to stormy daniels, lawyer. that payment was the hide damaging information from the voting public. the participants scheme was illegal. the scheme violated new york election law. which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal campaign contribution cap. and the false statements in our mes books violated new york law. that is why mr trump being false statements about his payments to mr cohen. he could not simply say. that the payments were reimbursement. for mr cohen's payments. to sandy to stormy daniels to do so. to make that true statement would have been to admit a crime. so instead, mr trump said that he was paying mr cohen for fictitious legal services in 2017 to cover up actual crime. committed the prior year. and in order to get michael cohen his money back. they planned one last false statement. in order to complete the scheme. they plan to mischaracterize the repayments to mr cohen income. to the new york state tax authorities. the conduct. i just describe and that which was charged by the grand jury is felony criminal conduct in new york state. true and accurate business records are important. everywhere to be sure. they are all the more important in manhattan. the financial center of the world. that is why we have a history in the manhattan d. a s office of vigorously enforcing white collar crime. my office including the talented prosecutors, you saw an arraignment earlier today. it's charged hundreds of felony falsifying business records. this charge. it can be said, is the bread and butter. of our white collar work. fraud presents itself at all different forms. here in manhattan. we have charged falsifying business records for those who violated federal bank secrecy laws. we have charged falsifying business records for those who are seeking to cover up sex crimes, and we have brought this charge for those committed tax violations. at its core. this case today is one with allegations like so many of our white collar cases. allegations that someone lied again and again to protect their interests and evade the laws to which we are all held accountable. as this office has done, time and time again. we today uphold our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stands equal before the law. no amount of money and no amount of power. changes that enduring american principle. i'll now take questions, right right. take a limited number of questions follow, okay? thank you. now this is a political move. you're not going to be a point person. uh, forgive. we conducted a thorough and readers investigations. we're going to do that the manhattan district attorney's office i've been doing this for 24 years, and i'm no stranger to rigorous complex investigations in cases when they already having now conducted a rigorous, thorough investigation. the case was ready to be brought. it was brought. oh that's right, that there were 34 falls business, so ribery's. and they were not conceal another prime, but in fact is not strictly say what those crimes where we are assuming perhaps that they might be elected related. i'm wondering, became. was were also broken. right so let me let me say as an initial matter. the indictment doesn't specify because the law does not so require. in my remarks. i mentioned a couple of laws which i will highlight again now. the first is new york state election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. further indicated a number of unlawful means, including more additional false statements, including statements that were planned to be made to tax authorities. uh i also noted the federal election law cap on contributing contribution limits. but why weren't their crimes start? well we are not going to go into our delivery process on what was brought the charges that were brought with the ones that were brought the evidence and the law is the basis for those decisions. you had expressed a year ago that you have some reservations about the readiness you talked to us about what was in the questions in your mind that needed to be honest. in order to bring a case. you know this managing, i'm not gonna go chapter and verse into many thinking what i will say is, i believe the time period you're talking about. i've been in office for a couple of months. the investigation in my view was not concluded into the conduct in particular that that is the base for the charges today. since that time we've had more evidence made available to the office and opportunity to meet with additional witnesses. so, as i said earlier, earlier. i've been doing this for 24 years. i don't bring cases prior to a thorough and rigorous investigation now, having done so, the case has been brought. garrett haygood, nbc news, your predecessor took a hard look at this case and decided not to charge it. federal prosecutors took a hard look at this case and decided not to charge it. do you believe you have new evidence that led you to decide to charge this or why now? but as i as i just mentioned we have had available to the office additional evidence that was not in the office's possession prior to my time here and as to your part of your question about the federal we have a distinct and strong, i would say profound independent interest in new york state. this is the business capital of the world. we regularly, uh do cases involving false business statements. uh the bedrock, in fact, the basis for business integrity and a well functioning business marketplace is true and accurate record keeping. that's the charge of fraud here, falsifying new york state business records. thank you. yea, brad's on the redback. the line from your statement faxed the participants . second character mischaracterized for tax purposes, payments and schemed former pressing problem was one of the participants mischaracterized payments were cats. fergus is not going to go beyond the plain language statement. factors i think speaks for itself. please college on the strength of the evidence that trump personally finally, uh, state election lot three actions that are charged with so the charges. falsifying business records, uh, charge requires, as i as i specified, uh, criminal conduct that was concealed one of the concealed crimes we allege is new york state election law. i went through in our statement of facts. i think many of you have in front of you, um you know goes through, um, things, including, you know, text messages, emails, contemporary. his phone records, multiple witnesses. all of that. will be as you saw in the fall, born out in a public courtroom in downtown manhattan is jonah. right sergeant created from release from your office also mentions another woman, karen macdougal, as well as the dormant you comment on how those players are related. charges brought to the case. overall, it's a. i'm glad you put your finger on that because it's not just about one payment. it is 34 business records. uh 34 false statements and business records. they were concealing criminal conduct. um, and the earlier question about new york state election long we talked about conspiracy to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. those are lawful means, we allege include, uh, conduct you know, set forth in the statement of facts, which is, you know additional false statements separate apart from the charge ones in am i documents planned false statements to taxing authorities. it is not just that 11 $130,000 wire payment. thanks so much. five point do you think of that? kerry you've been listening to the manhattan district attorney speaking after today's court hearings, let's talk. karen friedman, fellow. what do you make of what? what the d a has said, and also what the attorneys for the former president have said. yes so i think the district attorney here is showing everybody that this is a case that has a lot of corroboration. a lot of evidence , text messages, emails, other things. it's not just relying on michael cohen and he was very clear to emphasize that the crime that bumps this up from a misdemeanor to a felony includes at least two new york state crimes. in addition to a federal crime because one of the criticisms that has been that has been given to the d a s office and the theory here is how could you possibly use a federal election crime since this is a federal election to bump up in new york state crime now it should be noted that that has been done before underside. evans and robert morgan thought there were several falsifying business records cases that were brought under theories such as this. one of which was a big bank case that involved a lot of money in asset forfeiture, and the bank pled guilty, so it was never tested in court. but it's certainly a theory that's not novel that's been relied on in the past, but alvin bragg, i think wanted to make very clear that that this here also relies on new york state crimes to kind of take that out of the conversation. take that out of the motion practice because that is clearly was anticipated to be one of the big weaknesses in the case. it was a legal weakness, as opposed to a factual weakness and obviously another. criticism of the case has been that there's been factual weaknesses in the case because it relied on storm on michael cohen and michael cohen, as we know is somebody who not only has been convicted for lying to congress but also convicted of crimes relating to this hush money scheme, as well as other crimes that he himself committed involving taxi medallions and things that had nothing to do with donald trump. so there's a lot of fodder for cross examination and michael cohen and it's somebody who ah, any good defense attorney could easily um, in pune in pune. him? yes exactly so, so you need to corroborate anything, he says, and i think it was significant that alvin bragg was signaling to everybody, making it very clear. this doesn't just rely on on michael cohen. there is a lot of corroboration here, and i think that he's just really taking this. he's just taking certain, um, issues off the table for people who have been speculating all along here. ellie. the core conduct that is charged in this indictment is the payment of hush money now, payment of hush money is not a crime. it's not a federal crime. it's not a state crime. so how did they get here to state charges? they're relying on a state law that makes it in the first instance a misdemeanor to falsify business records. these are the repayments to michael cohen. that were falsely logged within the trump organization as legal fees when they were not legal fees. one of the complicated legal questions here is in order to bump that up from a misdemeanor to a felony. you have to show that those records were falsified to commit some other crime. some second crime now the indictment does not specify what that second crime is. you heard the defense lawyers, i think, rightly complaining about that the whole purpose of an indictment is to serve notice on the defendant of what exactly you're charged with . and what exactly, you're going to be defending yourself against now. d a brag again who was a former colleague of mine? i just clarified that a bit, he said federal campaign laws there's going to be a legal question there, he said. state campaign laws i'm not sure how violations related to a presidential election would count as state campaign laws. there may be some creative argument there, and he did say in passing, and it's mentioned one time. in the statement of facts, tax fraud now there's no indication that they actually claimed a deduction. in fact, i believe they did not claim a deduction on this, but perhaps the theory is this was the plan in terms of the evidence. it is clear that michael cohen is the star witness. he has referred to over and over again in the statement of facts, he is quoted at length in the statement of facts from him during his prior uh, his prior prosecution. federally david pecker is an important important witness to he's mentioned here. there's actually an interesting mention that he was invited to the white house after the inauguration, and the purpose there is to show this was campaign related. according to the d a. this was not personal. there are documents. um they do corroborate the fact that money was paid, but they don't necessarily show donald trump's exact involvement in it. list for griffin. i'm wondering what stands out to you. it was also interesting here in this indictment. there's talk that the former president and michael cohen actually were in the oval office, discussing how to characterize these payments. yes and is caring, laid out. listen michael cohen was always going to be challenging start witness, but the d a. did a good job of laying out the facts that back it up. however the court of public opinion matters here, and i think the politics that donald trump is going to lean into when we hear him. speak tonight are going. there are some things that are in his favor here. so the next hearing, according to cnn's reporting is scheduled for december. 4th so if you're somebody at home who skeptical of this case you're saying so. they waited seven years to try it. then they're waiting about eight months to have the second hearing on it, and by the way, it's going to fall two months before the republican primary. if you're donald trump, you're gonna say it's a witch hunt. it's political. it's a partisan d a have also seen some of his folks leaning into the fact that you know alvin bragg saying nobody is above the law. we prosecute even these white collar crimes. they're going to lean into the fact that you know, he has decided to downgrade sub felony offenses. two misdemeanors, things like marijuana. things like trespassing, so there's some fodder here for trump to push back. we're going to see this play out, but i'm not sure in my interpretation. as a non lawyer. this is quite as strong as i expected it to be. listen i've listened to ellie and others say that if this was all that was there this is gonna be a really weak case. and i think that georgia kapini stood out there and said, if this defendant's name was not donald trump this wouldn't be charged. and i have to believe that to be true. i've heard this is it this is gonna be weak. it's going to get dismissed. it's going to be a loser. i think donald trump's couldn't tonight is going to wave this in the air and mar-a-lago and say they're after me. there's a witch hunt. and rightfully so, man. um look, i think that that the d a did something good by presenting this as a about democracy. up until now. everything else was defending democracy in georgia, the coup and then we have this weird porn star stuff. everybody says what the heck is this? he says no. this was about corrupting our democracy is about corrupting our electoral system. i think in that regard he helped himself by clarifying that. alright dramatic few hours. former president trump indicted on 34 felony counts and falsifying business records. the former national security advisor gives his read on the case against donald trump after this quick break. mm hmm. mm hmm. card aries buy sell online. this can't be right. trouble wh your taxes, you know, filing youraxes doesn't have to be complicated tax act filing is simple. incoming. switch to tax act and start for free. internet without malicious 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three jobs done at once killed. swedes prevents cab gas and keeps it growing strong bag of scots triple action today. it's guaranteed feed alone. feed it, christine, man, i am retired from public health nursing and from the army reserve. my retirement funds. allow me to enjoy what i love to do. i volunteer with the medical reserve corps. as long as you can make an impact. why stop? closed captioning brought to you by meso book .com. we offer a free book on mesothelioma call for the free book and receive so much more call 1 808 31 37 100. not guilty today. donald trump personally entering a not guilty plea, or rather 34 not guilty pleas in front of the manhattan judge, prosecutors in manhattan today, dropping a bare bones indictment against for the far former president trump listing out 34 separate times. they say, mr trump falsified or encourage the falsification of business records allegedly lying about why he was paying his former lawyer and fixer michael cohen. here's what we learned from prosecutors in court, a 16 page indictment and a 13 page statement of facts, they say. prosecutors plan to put stormy daniels, the adult film star and director on the stand, trump and cohen has stout how the president would pay back his lawyer in the oval office. some of the payments were made to coen directly from donald trump's bank account and critically, prosecutors allege everyone involved in the scheme knew that what they were doing was illegal. we're joined now by former ambassador and trump national security adviser john bolton. thank you so much for joining us two quick questions for you one big picture. what do you think of the indictment? well speaking as someone who very strongly does not want donald trump to get the republican presidential nomination. i'm extraordinarily distressed by this document. i think this is even weaker than i feared. it would be, uh and i think it's easily subject to being dismissed or a quick acquittal for trump just speaking, going back to the days when i represented jim buckley and gene mccarthy and the constitutional challenge to the underlying federal statute here passed in 1974. i can say there is no baby basis in the statutory language to say that trump's behavior forms either a contribution or an expenditure under federal law. the two key definitions and issue here. if it did, it would mean that every single expenditure a candidate made could be taken to have something to do with his campaign. do i buy a $1 comb to comb my hair or $10 comb to comb my hair? uh if you can construe the statute to cover this behavior, then i think it violates the first amendment because you're deeply into territory that that makes this statute absolutely federal statute too vague for enforcement. and i just what i understood the district attorney to say that he thinks there's a new york election law involved here. all i can say is the federal election campaign act absolutely preempts any state or local law to the contrary. how could it be otherwise? you've got one law governing corporate finance and a presidential election. at the federal level, you're gonna have 50 state laws interfering with it, so he's just wrong on the applicability of the new york statute. um a lot to digest their. but one other thing i want to note is that the statement of facts describes, uh donald trump. inviting david pecker, the ceo of the national enquirer, parent company, am i who helped pay off karen macdougal, the playboy playmate of the month or of the year? i should say, uh, who was given 100 $50,000 to keep her story? quiet catch and kill the defendant, donald trump invited pecker to the white house for dinner to thank him for his help during the campaign. so that's after trump was president. and then there's another reference where donald trump and michael cohen lawyer a meet in the oval office at the white house to confirm the repayment arrangement that that's obviously an attempt to show that this was election related help provided by michael cohen help provided by david pecker. it's also you know, as was said during the clinton presidency for different reasons. rather gross that this is happening in the confines of the white house . well i think the defense attorneys don't have to prove that trump had a different intent. they simply have to show reasonable doubt that the intent was to affect federal election and i can come up with a very plausible reason why a person would have the intent of paying these hush money payments. he doesn't want his wife to find out about it. john edwards claimed. yeah, and i think to the average juror that's a pretty convincing argument they do address just say they do address that in the. in the documents where they say there was discussion about delaying the payment until after the election, perhaps even not paying until after the election so that they didn't have to pay it. if trump if trump won, so i'm just to say the idea that it was just to hide it from melania is kind of addressed in the document. i'm not saying that's the fact i'm just saying the defense can make a case that puts reasonable doubt in this is this is in a criminal case, they often say you have to prove 95% not a civil case where you only have to prove 51% i just want to say that what we have here is the indictment and the statement of facts. we don't have any of the supporting evidence they didn't release anything to actually answer those questions. mr ambassador. i think the somebody who's a bigger critic of donald trump, and you is senator mitt romney of utah. he just put out a statement saying, i believe president trump's character and conduct make him unfit for office. even so, i believe the new york prosecutor has stretched to reach felony criminal charges in order to fit a political agenda. i think i think he's right. the man campaigned to get donald trump and that the when i heard that my first thought was lavrenti beria, the former head of the nkvd in soviet times, who once said to joe stalin, you show me the man, i'll show you the crime . so i think, as i say from somebody who does not want trump to get the nomination, this feeds into trump's narrative. and it may answer one of history's great question, who was donald trump's greatest political supporter, alvin bragg said on sunday. i believe that what we are going to see in manhattan today and maybe over the next few months is rocket fuel for trump's campaign, right ? especially if he gets acquitted or that you've seen this you i feel this complaint, this criminal complaint could easily be dismissed on a motion to dismiss. i think it's that thin and carry, is it not? is it not possible that member just to remind everybody at home, so these are misdemeanor business fraud allegations, and because alvin bragg, the district attorney, is alleging that they were committed this fraud to hide a different crime. that's what makes it a felony possible that the argument is that because he hasn't really been very specific about it. that the underlying crime that that he was trying to hide by committing this crime that this fraud crimes committed by david pecker, who signed a non prosecution agreement and michael cohen. is it not possible that i mean, i'm not saying that justifies this anymore for anybody who's a skeptic of these charges. but is it not possible that that was the crime that he was covering up? well if that's their theory of the case, that's not what they've laid out in the documents that we've seen so far , and that's not really what the d a just said in his press conference because what he said in his press conference. is he mentioned the federal campaign the campaign for presidency and then he also made reference to new york state election law. and so that's what he talked about the press conference normally and you'll, you'll hear me and my colleagues on the legal side talk about this a lot. usually, prosecutors speak through their indictments. they speak through their charging documents and so the fact that he was describing in his press conference potential violations of law. that are not in the charging documents raises a lot of questions that i do think that defense attorneys will have some legitimate basis upon which to make their motions to dismiss. what is also interesting to me is related to what ambassador bolton is raising and carry you've talked about this, too. is that the federal election violation was never charged here. so the question of whether it was even chargeable or prosecutable wasn't even ever answered. and i wonder, how does that get? resolved. uh on the federal level, and then there's probably a separate question about whether there is even a new york state law that would that would apply to trump who at the time was a federal the federal level. they they said, um they declined before they they have written about it in a memo, but they declined to prosecute at first because he was president and then effectively because they had other things like the interaction that they were trying to deal. but that's that's exactly my point. they never declined to prosecute because they didn't. they didn't say that the law didn't apply to trump the facts of the case. first of all, the justice department of justice department doesn't have to explain why they don't public. they don't have to publicly explain why they don't make certain prosecutive decisions based on just what has transpired. we know that the former president was not charged with campaign violations in relation to this specific fact pattern that's described in the new york d. a statement of facts michael cohen did plead guilty to one charge. and so that could be also what is involved here. but they're just is this uh, some discrepancies and just some differences in some blink space in between the conduct that's charged facts that are in the statement of facts that include conduct that was in charge. so two of the fact patterns described in the new york d. a statement of facts weren't even charged in the indictment themselves. and then the separate issues that the d a described in his press conference remember, under the federal election law, the justice department is responsible for criminal prosecution, but the federal election commission is responsible for civil enforcement, and there is a huge body of regulations advisory opinions enforcement actions that the fcc has taken over the years. if there's something in here that says this is covered by the law. i'm unaware of it. maybe somebody can find it. certainly the d a. didn't find it just a just a point of put a point on it. you're not disputing that donald trump did what is alleged in this document . i have no doubt he did, and you're not disputing that he's guilty of misdemeanors and maybe even what is a white collar felony. you're just saying this does not rise to the level that you would take do this against former president. precisely look, we've all talked about the four pending criminal investigations about trump, ranking them in rough order of importance or viability. i would have ranked this one about sixth or seventh, and if it blows up in the da's face. trump will ride this to the republican nomination. that's my fear. alright, anderson cooper. jake thanks very much, and it's christian homes is at mar-a-lago . kristen donald trump is expected to respond to the indictment from manhattan prosecutors tonight. what do we know about the plan? so he's associate supposed to land in a few hours. he took off just after four. we're expecting him around seven will be a little later and those remarks are going to be around 8 15. and as we know, reported this before that speech is not expected to be finalized until after he lands. he is looking at it right now reviewing revising it, they needed to see what this indictment said in it before they could actually finalize that and go beyond just having the advisors. look at it now. the thing to note here is think about who is on that plane with him that will give you an idea of what that speech is going to look like he is not. on a plane with all of his lawyers. he is on a plane with his entire political team he has to campaign heads loss. evita susie wild, closest campaign aides. that should give you an indication of where they are going to take this. we have already seen them make this about 2024 make this political while he was in that arrangement , they put out a blast fundraising off of a mug shot that they made. they put it on a computer and made a mug shot. printed it on t shirts and blasted it out to raise money off of it again, showing you where they are mentally around this, and right now i have talked to two sources close to the president who say they feel pretty good. they feel like this indictment was thin and a weak case that is something we have heard from donald trump over and over again, but to be very clear. donald trump was not happy. he did not want to be indicted. there was so much going on, so just seems to think about. as he takes this stage. we're going to get a real understanding of how exactly he feels about that indictment and anderson just one thing to point out. this is his club. he is going to be surrounded by lawmakers that support him by his allies like club members here who i have seen them interact with them. they act as though he is still president. that is, the crowd is going to be speaking to and so that is the kind of energy that he's going to be feeding off of here tonight. we've obviously seen what that leads to, but his campaign manager's his advisers . they're all hoping he stays on message. but again, we'll have to see it will give you a very clear indication of where his head is that once he takes that stage, and what time is he planning to speak? he's going to take the stage at 8 15, but it might be a little bit later. we're still kind of sussing that out. they did leave later than expected. they're supposed to leave it for they left shortly afterwards. so we will keep you posted on that enforced monitoring it closely. christian homes. i appreciate it back to the team here in new york and melissa, this is probably as days ago where you get arraigned and indicted a pretty not a terrible day for the former president, in terms of how it could have gone. yes, things are probably looking up after the former president read the indictment, which his team's going to interpret us then and that's gonna be their message tonight. i expect to hear him be indignant. after a day where he you know, as i mentioned earlier was really out of control of the situation. he didn't define the terms he didn't get to choose the audience he was speaking to. we didn't get to get to come and go as you want to know. he's back home. he's at his club surrounded by supporters and even mitt romney, a constant detractor of the former presidents came out and said, you know he's unfit. to be president. i don't support him again. however, this is a weak case by the d a. so he's seeing even people like mitt romney. give him that feedback. i think he's going to use this moment is a reset to say my people are with me. they reportedly have raised $10 million in the last couple of weeks since this came down, and it's going to say, you know, it's a time to be on our side of this because it's a political witch. is this hurt? i mean, i'm throwing this up to the channel. does this hurt the other cases right now being pursued? i worry. i mean, look, if this is the only pebble that gets thrown at donald trump, it's a very small pebble if it's the first pebble in an avalanche of other indictments that strike more to the heart of, i think people's core concern about donald trump. which is his threat to democracy. so this is the first pebble the next one is about the election interference in georgia. the next one is about the coup. the insurrection january 6th. the next one is about him hoarding these documents and why then it begins to fit. but if this is the only pebble it's not much of a pebble and i do think it could. it could, uh, the backlash against this pebble mike cow, other people who might otherwise have been courageous enough to step forward. i gotta say two observations first to this point . you know today this this morning we saw he had an away game in a very unfriendly stadium. right tonight. he's got a home game in front of a home crowd who are riled up. it is. it's like a homecoming. he'll be he'll be. he'll be jubilant. he'll be defiant. it'll be you know, classic donald trump to talk to vance point. i think it does. injured what comes next because people american public was watching. today people were tuned into their tvs everyone's watching with this is the 1st 1st time ever. and they say this is it. this is what they got. everyone's been saying for weeks. if this is it, it's nothing and now people are going to turn it off. in the next case that comes it's gonna be like the second impeachment, the third impeachment just going to be more. it's gonna be white noise, unfortunately, and people will tune out in terms of public perception and the politics if then, and david and alyssa all agree. i'm gonna take your word for it. i do think it may cause people to take if there are subsequent indictments to sort of have a little bit of skepticism, but legally, it's important to understand each one of these indictments stands absolutely on its own. there's nothing about this case that will impede interfere with have any impact on what the fulton county d a may do down in georgia what the justice department may do. the big question to me heading in today is there more? is there more than what we already basically knew about the hush money payments and falsification of business records? and the answer by and large is no. there are some extra details in here. we have a little better sense of what some of the documentary evidence is, but at its core, this is what we expected heading into today, but i just want one final point on that part you're talking about these other cases may be brought we? we found out today this if this case goes to trial, it'll be sometime and after the election, 24 25 26 these other cases or even if he's indicted on these other things, it's going to be. you're looking far after that as well. so people will say this is this is an effort to keep him off the ballot and your loot. you may be right in the court, the real court, but the court of public opinion will be a loser won't be resolutions absolutely for years for years for years, and i think it's a frustration. sorry john just real quick to the many very credible investor. stig ations into the former president. i've cooperated with the department of justice, as have a number of other officials. who want to see him held accountable for things that rise to that level for this to take the historic step of being the first indictment of a former president. i think it's a bit disappointing how not strong it is because it could, in the public's mind make those other cases seem weaker and gives them call has has people call them in a question? and it's. it's an interesting shift today because and maybe it's all our own fault. you know, we've kind of whipped ourselves up over the last week about you know, if they're bringing this case, it must be more than what we know is inside and we looked inside today and say, oh, it's just the same stuff we already knew. so what changed? you know, it's a seven year old case in the d a s office. they call this zombie case because every time they put it away, it came back to life. nobody wanted to go forward with it. they had a larger, more complicated case involving hundreds of millions of dollars in overvaluing property in order to secure lines of credit and undervaluing property when it was time to pay taxes and not just a little, but you know, to the power of five and it was a large, complex fraud based on the exact same charges, falsification of business records, but it was easy to articulate the victims are the public. the taxpayers the banks , the fraud, chose not to go forward, and he chose not to go forward with it and yet chose forward to go with this. so it's a it's an odd turn. it has been history making day here in new york, donald trump becoming the first former president to be arrested and arraigned on criminal charges. trump pleaded not guilty today that 34 felony charges. falsifying business records were digging into all the details. the 16 page indictment. wolf blitzer and erin burnett pick up cnn's special live coverage right after a quick break. pepperoni on panera's new toaoasted baguee sliced a little t thicker to hod more flavor. so when fresh mozzarella melts over it, that detail will be big. toasted baguettes cater your next event with panera. inved women who wanted tir damaged hair trmed. yes i need a trip to be able to cuthe damage of instead. so still need that trim. i'm actually 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there are places you'd like to be. like here and here and here. not so much here. you've been diagnosed with chronic kidney disease for sega reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farcical can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death a rare life threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking far sega and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection and allergic reaction or ketoacidosis, and don't take it if you are on dialysis. put yourself in the driver's seat. make an appointment to ask your doctor for first sica for chronic kidney disease. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. there's a new breed of hornets sweeping the nation. are you picking this up? country by swarm the all new dodge hornet. today at five speculation ends and a new chapter in history is written charges is the former president facing and what are the next steps for trump's legal team? the indictment of donald trump continues today at five. tomorrow history in the making beginning today, we're bringing you the news. disturbing new details. new way lot of [ ominous music playing ] here we go! level up your speed. mario! yea! 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