members of congress and he was calm, measured and got the point out, substantively and rhetorically at one point. he said i want to spend time reading the transcript as we've been encouraged to do which is clearly a message to everyone, read the transcript and when he got the witnesses to repeat what was in the readout of the call between president trump and president zelensky that was powerful and 45 minutes seems like a long time in a congressional hearing. it's a small amount of time if you're a trial lawyer, and i think he did a good job. >> what about the republican counsel, steve caster, how effective was he? >> he was less effective, and as i said, i was a colleague of dan and i know him well. this other lawyer, mr. caster, i don't know. it may be, but he's not as experienced and not as seasoned. he seemed to be casting about a little bit and it may be the case that a lot of people don't have a lot to work with and a member of congress can't give