is that, first i wouldn't say anything, i would listen, i would try to understand what his concerns are, what he's heard about natural immunity compared to vaccine-related immunity. and then i'd try to talk to him about what we have understood actually from the studies about natural immunity. we are seeing more and more data that tells us that while you get some protection from natural infection, it's not nearly as strong as what you get from the vaccine, especially with the delta variant, which is the heardiest and most contagious variant we've seen to date. we need all the protection we can get. that's why the vaccines are so effective. >> but i also hear that man saying he doesn't trust anybody. he thinks that doctors and scientists are being told what to say. it's this profound loss of social trust that obviously predates the pandemic. and i wonder if at the end of the night you say there's only so much we can do to win back people's trust. >> well, it's a really important point because this is about trust. and you can repair trust overnight or in one

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