people in recruitment centers. to suggest that if people just had beguns they would be able to stop a mass murder from happening is absurd. ben, you saved your own life, yes. >> it was dark outside, by the way. there wasn't a lot of light. you can shoot when it's not exactly right. >> ben my argument isn't that you can't shoot when it's dark outside. that would be stupid. in a crowded movie theater where people are all facing forward have guns in their holsters if someone stands up and opens fire it is very difficulty to shoot back and not kill a bunch of innocents. let's not pretend we can shoot our way out of mass violent. >> let me make this clear though -- >> guys -- >> we're not going to shoot our way out of gun violence. here's the difference. when you are in that situation and i've been in that situation, i would much rather have