records act. >> yes, jim, and i think this is a perfect example what might fall on one side of the law and the other. even if documents are not classified, if you are destroying or removing documents because you want to keep them away from investigators, that's still a federal crime, even potentially obstruction of justice. the ripping up, if stephanie grisham is correct, i have no reason to doubt her, a habit or tick of donald trump, it's thoughtless, strange but probably not a crime. the toilet and i don't get to get overly analytical about a toilet, everyone understands there's only one reason you crumple something up in the toilet and flush it. you're trying to get rid of it and keep it away from other people. to me that part of the conduct is much closer and possible over the line of what could be criminal. >> don't bad guys flush stuff down the toilet? they flush the evidence down the toilet. >> i mean, we laugh but i've seen that happen, jim.