that was beneficial to president trump, that solicitation goes all the way to the white house. there had been some suggestion in the last few days that perhaps ambassador sondland was acting on his own, or that rudy giuliani was acting on his own, without any, without any impetus from the president, but now that it's become clearer that the chief of staff was acting in his official capacity as the manager of this effort to secure ukrainian assistance for the president's re-election campaign, it's becoming much clearer that all of this activity goes all the way back, at least as high as the chief of staff, and then it becomes pretty incredible to think that it doesn't involve the man behind all three of these other fellows, the president of the united states. >> pamela, mulvaney was supposed to testify today behind closed doors. but he didn't. what happened? is there any chance he may talk during the public hearings that start next week?