previously did. now he's trying redefine it. it does tell you something about the people who seek to lead this party. but i think they are making a bad bet. and it's not going to be a winning bet in 2024. >> natasha, i spoke with the head of dnc, jaime harrison, last hour. and we talked about this pending vote, the vote that's coming up for -- on the filibuster potentially to make progress on voting rights. and i read in politico today that the president's allies are employing a lot of people to try to convince senator manchin. one of them oprah winfrey. if oprah couldn't convince senator manchin, i don't know who can. i'm joking there. but do you see that there really is any progress? he's heard from every advocacy group, colleague, former president and he's not budging. >> listen, i know oprah is a king and queenmaker, okay? we know that she had a huge influence in terms of endorsing