as we get closer to the debate, we don't see candidates beyond chris christie and asa hutchinson who are willing to do that. ultimately, if you want to beat someone who's ahead of you, you've got to make a case to voters about why they should bypass that candidate. so few of the candidates have been willing to do that. even it was leaked that ron desantis was instructed to defend donald trump. >> you mentioned that maybe trump's calculations will change as we get closer to the caucuses. trump in 2016 skipped the last debate, the primary debate before the iowa caucuses and then came in second behind ted cruz. do you think there is any cost to him politically to skip these first two debates so far ahead of the contest? >> not these debates. there's a clear distinction between the debates, the national debates, particularly those being held by fox and