lists of seniors suffering from dementia, lists of people suffering from aids. police officers' home addresses, that kind of thing. as she mentioned, the data brokers take the lists, sell it to marketers for a few cents per name, but still a $150 billion industry, so there is clearly money to be made. also in terms of how they get access to the data. you think about it. everybody has an online presence to some degree. when you take an online survey to get a discount, that's one way. loyalty cards, warranty programs, shopping online, buying over th koune counter prescriptions. the most important thing is you have to be very careful and sort of, when you subscribe to anything online, make sure you read the fine print. that's crucial. a lot of people don't do it. >> how does this industry explain this? how do they defend this? >> right, well the director of marketing association says they don't compile these lists very often. but they say, listen, they sort of recognize that it's wrong to sort of exploit people or