it's not -- i don't think anybody offing watching is shoc falling off their couches or chairs, that there are political negotiations and strategizing going on on both sides. >> but actually seeing it on television, overhearing it is a different story. >> i know. >> let's move on. all this game talk and finger pointing. is there any way out of this shutdown soon? >> you know, that is the question everybody wants to know. and unfortunately, the news i'm going to deliver is, i don't see or hear any real conversations going on. what's going on in public, this sort of fight to get the upper hand with regard to the pr of this, is all that's going on. no discussions about how you get out because democrats are really dug in, saying they don't feel the need to negotiate any more than they have, and republicans keep saying, why not? however, there are discussions beginning to go on about the next fight, which is really less