is that a normal thing that people -- or do people just react, oh, okay, no big deal? >> it's extreme grief. so yes, that is typical. >> and the word "no" is like i can't believe it, like he's dead. isn't that a normal thing? >> that would be speculation. >> it's based upon what his experience has been. so in that regard, i'll allow it. >> right? it's normal for when you're telling them about the death of a loved one, people say no, you know, like i can't believe it, that kind of stuff? >> it could be construed as denial. yes, sir. >> right? and that would be a normal thing based on your experience when people say no, right? >> yes, sir. >> thank you, sir. no further questions. >> any redirect? >> when you talked about during all of the 911 calls, you played all of those 911 calls, correct? >> yes, sir. >> but it was only after and specifically after you played the lauer 911 call that you looked at mr. martin and asked if that was the voice of his son