however, what's been on the rise as organized religion declined is the growth in nondenominational sort of pick and choose your own aspects of religion you like. that's on the rise. anyone who comes into the catholic church attempting to grow, it will have to deal with that. and the question becomes if you taylor make religion, do you divorce yourself from organized religion. >> pete. >> organized religion on its way out with more enlightened, more informed, more educated prosperous societies in the world. moving toward the enlightened idea of spirituality. or complete atheism, which i think is maybe wrong. the catholic church has got a lot of bad publicity. maybe they can bring in a cel celebrity like mel gibson to give out a psa. celebrity catholics. people don't go to movements, because of the leader, they go because of friends and families.