of the country. they want to be part of the family of sort of western nations, or at least a sigma majority of the country wants that. and so to step back from that at the end of a barrel of a gun, as it were, quite literally in fact right now, would be a huge step back, a huge concession by the ukrainians. at the same time, i think it is fair to say that joining nato membership, joining nato, rather, nato membership, was not a realistic -- it was not on the horizon anyway for ukraine. and certainly since russia started building up its military forces, and sort of stamping its feet about that even being a possibility, you know, it is already become a situation in which when you talk about ukraine joining nato, it is just a dream. it is not going to be something that is even a medium term possibility of happening. ukrainian officials privately will confide in you that they