and the spread sheet. >> sure? >> is it true that 16 witnesses said he had his hands up. and two said he did not? >> in some, well, no there were more than two that said he did not. >> no, no, this is really important. people keep getting this wrong. 28 witnesses, 16 said hands up. two said no hands up. the rest either weren't asked the question or didn't have a responsive answer for the panel. isn't that true in. >> i don't dispute your math, chris, you and i both know as lawyers that have been in a courtroom, you don't rely on the testimony of eye witnesses alone. you have to overlay over that testimony the physical evidence. and the physical evidence supports the fact he did not have his hands up. >> and the grand jury exonerated. that's the end of the discussion. but in terms of was officer wilson wrong or not, you have to respect the process. however, the don't shoot hands up, there's plenty of reason to believe that michael brown had his hands up at some point. he may have lowered them, he may