everyone who comes here says the same thing -- you can almost still smell the fear, the sweat, the death and decay. the pain is palatable still. it's history you tell yourself, but the wounds still linger and we must never forget. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight, a prime time exclusive, go inside the gates of never land. see where michael jackson lived and danced. raised his children. his brothers and friends tell us about michael before the money problems, the scandal. and debbie rowe may fight for the kids. michael wanted his mom to raise. will she win? plus, one of michael's final rehearsals caught on tape. you're looking at michael two days before he died. this was in the very arena that will host his memorial service. all next on a very special edition of "larry king live" on location from neverland. good evening under a spectacularly beautiful night in central california. we're at the neverland valley ranch, formerly known, by the way, as the sycamore valley ranch. it was renamed neverland after the movie of peter pan. this is an exclusive with "larry king live" and with jermaine jackson, a former member of the jackson five. indeed, jermaine sang the co-lead with michael for a number of years. before we talk about this incredible place and first thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> thank you for flying up with me. you were a nice companion. we want now watch this tape of your late brother the last 48 hours before he died. watch. >> larry: all right. how does that make you feel? >> he looks great. strong. very, very strong. >> you saw reports of him looking bad, doesn't look bad to me. >> he looks incredible. very strong. >> larry: so how does it hit you now, jermaine? >> it hits me very, very deep. very hurting in paining, the world's paining, my family's paining because he's gone too soon, too soon. >> larry: what's it like to be here? >> it's wonderful to be here. >> larry: explain. >> this is his creation. this is his -- like i said, this is the ultimate serenity at its highest level. this is his wonderment, his joy, his happiness, his peace. and i feel him everywhere. i feel him all around here. he's never left. >> larry: the thing that hit me the most, others may have told you this, is i expected to see some kind of, for want of a better term, a honky-tonk atmosphere. >> what do you think? >> larry: beauty, serenity, calmness. don't feel like wearing a tie. this is just relaxing at the water. we're going to take a little walk later over to the tree where -- i can't -- i'm totally taken aback by it. in a plus way. >> tell me this, with all the negative things that they tried to say, that they said about this place, do you feel that it was representative of what you said? >> larry: if there was negativity, i don't see it here now. >> thank you. >> larry: this is really a beautiful, beautiful place. let's talk about -- how did you find out your brother died? >> i was on the other side of town in azusa and i got a call from you guys on my wife's phone. >> larry: cnn? >> yes. and they said did you know that your brother was rushed to the hospital? i said what? so i called my mother immediately and i got her on the phone and she said so a little time went by and i she was on her way. spoke to janet and i spoke to a few of the siblings. then about 45 minutes later, then i called my mother back and i hear this sound in her voice saying that he's dead. just the feeling of emptiness came before my body, because to hear my mother say her child is dead and my brother is dead, i've never ever thought that i would ever hear this from her lips. >> larry: did you go right over to the hospital? >> immediately, larry. i had to go a different route, and once i got closer to where he was, i could see the helicopters in the sky and that really brought just a chill over my whole body. once i entered into ucla, i went straight for my mother to see how she was. and she was sitting there and i guess she was there but she wasn't there. and i consoled her and hugged her, and i went to see my brother, michael, i went to look for him. >> larry: where did you see him? >> i saw him laying in the room and he was lifeless, breathless. and he just, as if it was a shell and he wasn't there. >> larry: what do you do at a moment like that? do you say something? what do you do? >> i said, michael, why did you go? why did you leave? why did you leave me? what was going through my mind, larry, i wish it was me there instead of him. >> larry: really? >> yes, because i loved michael so much. it's a different love. all my family, siblings, the world loves him. but i just felt a special connection with him because just going back over memories how my father used to keep us in the same rooms because we were on tours so we were the lead singers. and just memories all came back to me. everything. everything. >> larry: are you wondering why it happened, how it happened? >> i was most concerned about that, but i was also concerned about the fact that he wasn't here anymore. what was i going to do, because i felt like a major part of me just disappeared. >> larry: so you say coming back here is okay for you? not hard for you? >> not at all, larry. because this is his creation. this is his joy. this is his fantasy land. whatever he called it. but it's neverland. this is the ultimate happiness. >> larry: how are your children taking it? they were very close to him. >> yes. it's unreal. the children, they loved uncle michael and they -- all the siblings just felt that. he played with them. he would come over and play hide and seek in the house, because we grew up doing this. >> larry: and he was always a man child. >> yes, i'm the same way. there were things about that. >> larry: how are his kids? >> his kids are strong. they have a lot of love and care and they're playing with my kids, and they are just being strong. but they're -- it's what it is. >> larry: more from beautiful never land, never, neverland with this, i call it never neverland because when you come here you call it never, never, neverland. >> you never want to leave. >> larry: you're not kidding. we'll be right back. ♪ you and i must make a pact we must bring salvation back ♪ (man) i'm rethinking everything... including who i trust to look after my money. ♪ (woman) the dust might be settling... that's great, but i'm not. ♪ (second man) i guess i'm just done with doing nothing, you know? ♪ (third man) oh, i'm not thinking about moving my money. i am moving it. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 ♪ i'll be there ♪ i'll be there >> larry: we're at the neverland ranch, north of santa barbara, the home of, hard to say, late michael jackson. this is an exclusive primetime special for "larry king live" on cnn. and we're spending time with jermaine jackson, we'll check in with ted rowlands in a moment. one thing about katherine, your mother, do you think it's proper that she be responsible for the kids? >> yes, i think it's very proper, because the way my mother raised us, the way we know how she's very -- just the love, the joy, and making sure that they'll be okay. i thought it was the right choice. >> larry: age any hindrance, her age? >> no, because she has a staff and she's always with all of our kids. there's 23 grandchildren. >> larry: what do you make of the ex-wife possibly seeking custody? >> we'll see, larry. the will is what it is. and the will was really written well and it was executed by the executors and they did a great job. it's what it is. >> larry: so you don't think she has a shot? >> well, no, no. because this is what michael wanted. we're looking at michael. this is all about michael. this is what he wanted. >> larry: michael had a great friend in miko brando, michael was best man in miko's wedding, and ted rowlands is with miko. ted? >> reporter: we're at the train station, one of the most memorable images of neverland ranch, if you've seen video out of here, it's sort of like the disneyland train station in that they have the flowers and the clock and there's really a gorgeous part of the neverland ranch compound. and miko, you've spent a lot of time up here. this place is so big. obviously this isn't just for decoration, this train station was a real train station with a real train. >> real train, steam-engine train, large one. he had used it for years to get from the residence up to the theater and the zoo. >> which is about a quarter mile away. above this fireplace, miko, was a tribute to katherine. >> there was a plaque there that he had made for his mother, because he named the train after his mother, "the katherine." >> so the train was actually called katherine. >> yeah. >> a lot of people would come up here just to hang out because, of course, there was, as there around the entire compound -- >> before you reached the train, you would stop here and have your cap sheen know if you want, ice cream, candy, candy apples, all the candy you could think of before you ride a train over to the theater. >> reporter: and people would hang out and sit here and watch these monitors. michael would put on videos on each of these monitors. same video. >> right. he would put videos, whoever wanted to sit here and watch them on all these screens, sit here and eat your candy, all the sweets that you would want. and the kids would hang out and watch the videos all night long. >> reporter: this is just a minuscule part, obviously, of the compound here. one small portion of it where people would come and hang out. the outside, here is where the train would come through, miko, and the marks you say sort of show how much it was used, huh? >> correct. that shows you how much steam went through underneath there. every time you would blow the whistle, that would have the effect on the brick like that. >> reporter: you say michael used to -- >> blow the whistle right there and make it loud. you could hear it over the whole valley, you could hear it over the whole property. once that whistle went, you would know the train was here. >> reporter: for you coming back here, what are you feeling? >> numb, numb. i wish he was here. just numb. >> reporter: all right. larry, this is the train station. we'll be here for the hour showing you much more of neverland ranch. larry? >> larry: thank you. thank you, miko. thank you, ted. did you ride that train a lot? >> many times, many times. it left from the train station to go to the theater, down to the theme park. >> larry: was this things that michael probably dreamed about as a child? >> this is what he was about, just the joy. he started out as a young kid on stage and never having a childhood. and this is -- this was the ultimate playground. >> larry: this was the childhood relived? >> yes, exactly. we would come here and relive our dreams and our kids would come and parties and birthdays and just, you never wanted to leave. >> larry: some beautiful statuaries. remember, they're only using 37 acres out of almost 3,000. when we come back, you're going to see part of those 3,000 acres. wait until you see what's coming. don't go away. ♪ i'll reach out my hand to you ♪ >> larry: a little while ago, jermaine and i took a little ride up to the gazebo. you couldn't have walked it because this is a big place. jermaine, we need to say this is unbelievable. where are we? >> we're looking over neverland. this is what we considered to be the ultimate joy, the ultimate happiness, the ultimate wonderment, the ultimate peace. neverland. >> larry: this is one small part of this whole picture, right? >> yes, this is one small part. there is so much more -- there are other valleys beyond these hills here that are just flat surfaces. mt. katherine around here. >> larry: the same for your mother. is that it up there? >> it's the part that's shaved off there. mt. katherine. it's just a place where we would come with all the children and there would be birthdays and fun and the times we wanted to get out here it was booked for bus loads of just kids who were dying with this and that and unfortunate, wheelchairs. and the theme park was this way beyond that way. wheelchair ramps. >> larry: lot of underprivileged, poor kids, right? >> underprivileged, poor. they would have a wonderful time. >> larry: what's that way? >> that way is just where we used to go around and act crazy and ride horses and stuff. it's just so much land to still develop. but here's where he considered his happiness. this is what he felt -- >> larry: did he see this first? how did he pick this place? >> well, i understand when they did the video "say, say, say," my sister la toya was here and michael and paul mccartney and he really liked it. to back up, i had a ranch in hidden valley. and michael would come over and he loved what i had out there because i had swans and everything. he said jermaine, i'm going to buy a beautiful ranch one day, because he loved the ranch. and this is -- i think that's what inspired him to do this. >> larry: you spent a lot of time here in the heyday? >> a lot of time. a lot of time. >> larry: i don't think the general public would have any concept of what neverland is. i think that thought would be to his rides and games and toys. there was all that, right? this is so much more. >> yes, with our family, larry, we travel so much. i can see bits and pieces of different parts of the world here. that's what's great -- >> larry: you see europe here? >> oh, yeah. you see all types of things. that's what michael enjoys. he brought bits and pieces of places he enjoys into his heyday. >> larry: what is it like for you to stand here now at this place that he loved so much and know he's gone? >> larry, it's so hard. but at the same time, i feel him. >> larry: you do? >> yes, i feel his presence, because this is his creation. this is his idea. to come here and to feel him here, i'm happy. and i really felt -- feel this is where he should be rested because it's just him. listen, it's serene. it's wonderful. >> larry: do you need the state to change that? >> larry, anything can be done today. >> larry: the law says you have to be buried in a cemetery. i think that's the law. >> people who make the laws -- >> larry: they can change it. this is obvious, would be one of the magnificent burial places in the world. >> tell me what impression you had when you first came in? >> larry: i couldn't believe it. i don't know what i was expecting. >> same impression i had the first time i came. it's the kind of place when it's time to go you don't want to leave. you want to hide, you want to chain yourself to a tree. or something. you don't want to leave. there's so much joy and happiness and at the same time to think about that certain people tried to turn this into a negative place, for him to bring kids here and this and that for their own reasons. that disturbs us the most. >> larry: that hurt him, didn't it? >> it hurt him tremendously. not only him, our whole entire family. our kids come out here, there's candy, and right in that space right there where you see the little kids sitting on the moon there, that's the grand station for the steam train to go from there to the theater down that way. and he got the only steam operator in the nation to come here and work this steam train. >> larry: thank you for showing us this. i have never expected it nor have i ever seen anything quite like it. >> thank you so much, larry. >> larry: thanks, jermaine. >> it means a lot to all of us. i think i'll go with the preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. >> larry: well, we have moved from our position back over there to one over here. kind of dramatic, beautiful place, but also with a story to tell. jermaine, where are we? >> well, we're right as you come in, and this is a very special tree here, because this tree was the tree that he would climb in and think and write songs. like -- >> larry: write songs? >> yeah, "we are the world," "dangerous." this was his childhood theme. >> larry: let's walk over here. >> to climb trees, yeah. >> larry: explain to me what he would do. he would climb -- he would start from where? >> right from here, he would climb up here. >> larry: climb up here? go. don't kill yourself. >> go here. >> larry: handles on the tree. >> yeah, and he would go all the way up and find a place to sit which was right around -- oh, here. up there. >> larry: up there? >> right up there. and he would sit there -- >> larry: up there? >> yes, up there, and he would sit there and write songs. it's peaceful, larry. do you hear this? listen. >> larry: okay. it's peaceful but scary. >> no, because it's that childhood thing. you're never afraid when you're a child to do things. >> larry: so he would write the words there and musical notes? >> exactly. just lyrics and melodies and ideas. >> larry: let's take "we are the world," would he come down then and sing it to you? >> he would come down and take the ideas and go to the studio, implement that and put it on the -- put it into motion. >> larry: did he ever tell you how he got the idea to write in a tree? >> larry, you can write anywhere. you can write while you're driving. >> larry: but why in a free? i know. >> because you're up high, it's god's creation. it's a tree. it's peaceful, it's green. it's by the fountain, and it's very peaceful. >> larry: it's also one darn beautiful tree. >> yes. it looks like it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old. an oak tree. >> larry: yeah, beautiful. hey, this is some place, you know. i've got to tell you, i could live here. >> i could live here too. >> larry: we'll be right back. don't go away. ♪ just call my name and i'll be there ♪ ♪ you and i must make a pact we must bring salvation back ♪ ♪ where there is love i'll be there ♪ ♪ i'll be there ♪ i'll reach out -- >> larry: i keep thinking, jermaine, about double emotions. i mean, there's a lot of plus emotions. there's got to be a lot of sad emotions. the world shared him. >> yeah, but it's -- it's a joy here. and i really feel my mother should come back here and the rest of my brothers and sisters, and just feel his presence. feel what he's created, because it will never leave. it will never die. he's here. >> larry: they have not been here since? >> no. jackie has been here, tito has been here. the rest -- >> katherine hasn't, your dad hasn't? >> they're coming. i'm pretty sure. >> larry: what can you tell us about the plans for tuesday? >> well, the plans for tuesday is fine. we were just delegating certain things to certain family members. but we've always been focused on knowing what we wanted to do. >> larry: is it 10:00 a.m. tuesday morning? >> 10:00 a.m. tuesday morning. >> larry: staples center downtown. >> staple center, downtown. the hardest thing is where do you rest michael jackson? where do you -- it's like everything he did was so over the top, and there are people coming from all over the world in groups of 20s and hundreds of thousands. >> larry: how are you going to hold -- staples holds 18. did you ask about dodger stadium? >> we worked with the city authorities and they're trying to work with the timeframe we have. they're hoping everybody is safe and things are going to be locked down pretty much. >> larry: and burial now, the california law says you have to bury them in a cemetery, right? >> that's pretty much, yes. but as you know, the ones who make the laws can also change them, too. i would love to see him here. >> larry: do you have a place for him here? >> yes, there's a special place right over near the train station, right over there. >> larry: that we saw before? >> yes. it's hard, larry, to point where your brother is going to be -- it's tough. >> larry: what kind of service will it be? >> larry, we -- we want the world to take part in this event, but at