sign, both is often experienced in parishes here in the united states. >> and delia, it the very simpl chair in which he is sitting, the fact that -- how he lives, that he doesn't drive in fancy cars, he doesn't eat fancy meals, the pope that he is. and yet a tradition that is a very rich, deep and involved set of rituals. in a sense, there is a bit of a contrast there. >> well, you know, erin, it's very symbolic in a sense, talking about the mass, because the mass is one of those parts of catholicism which combines the tradition that we were talking about. we heard a chant, a beautiful chant at this mass and we heard some latin which comes from the old mass and then bringing it up to the modern mass. often you see the difference between conservatives within the