special immigrant visas, people who work with the embassy or military who need to get out. as soon as you tell the taliban no, they're going to kill people. so what's your choice, chris? is your choice to deal with an organization you don't trust but hope within the next 10 to 15 days we get people out, or is your choice to challenge them and have them go house to house and murder the people who helped us? i'd tell you the choice i'd make, you've got to take a risk. and that risk is let's keep trying to see if this works and if it doesn't, we've got to go to force. right now force is not the right option. >> do you believe this is a defining moment in the presidency of joe biden? >> not yet. the question on september 1st, on september 15th will be did we get tens of thousands of people out, american citizens, friends of america, the people who supported the pentagon and others. did we get those people out? did we get them out relatively