back to the perfect phone call, he had knowledge of what rudy was doing and instructed mr. skblemr. mr. zelensky to be in contact with rudy. not only does he create a situation of truth abuse himself but he puts rudy in trouble because what if the president is believed. so, wait a minute, you were the president's lawyer but you were over there doing things that he didn't know about? were you operating in the interest of your client or not? it's a problem both, isn't it? >> oh, absolutely. obviously trump is trying to distance himself from rudy. that creates big problems for him because what exactly is he doing? maybe he's just doing business for himself with the ukrainians. that's the ethics issue. if he is doing business with the ukrainians, he is right back in the hot seat on fara. if he was trying to get him to help with dirt on biden, he's back in the hot seat with the campaign finance situation. he's really in kind of a trick bobs there.