bringing human faces and family partners into the discussion and throughout the country. that's really the supreme court decision itself recognized that, that we now have a profound change over the last 10, 20 years in which people have come out and we understand them to be just like us. >> i think that's one of the biggest changes. we were talking earlier in 2004 president george w. bush won support by drumming people up to get to the polls to vote against same-sex marriage. one of the architects of that was ken melman who was at the time in the closet is now out a gay man lobbying for same-sex marriage. those kinds of changes, people coming out of the closet, whether it's vice president cheney's daughter or the former director of the republican national committee or whomever, that changes opinions. because then people think, oh, i know gay people. i didn't think i did. >> in reality, it shouldn't. it shouldn't have taken justice powell to meet a gay person to