and that is obviously the american kenneth bay and the concerns of his family. the human rights abuses that we all know about and cover, and you do so well. the nuclear option threats that come out of that country. that's what matters. and yes, rodman will drive the energy of the discussion, but it's good to get those issues, the attention that they deserve, even if it comes at the price of dennis going all clever lang on me there. >> you bring up a good point. the fact that we have an opportunity to talk about kim jong-un, we have an opportunity to talk about human rights abuses and kenneth bay, all of that certainly matters. you look at the players, and you mentioned this a couple times in your interview, you have a great deal of respect for who these men are and what they do. i couldn't help but thinking, looking at their expressions, the thought bubbles and clouds that would be above them during this exchange, what was going on through their minds. when you see this interview, when you play it back, when you see it, what do you make of those men? >> reporter: well, they weren't mic'ed, okay? only charles smith and dennis rodman were mic'ed.