work. >> if vladimir putin's forces do occupy kyiv, occupy kharkiv, you know, there was that old saying in iraq by u.s. forces, if you break it -- i think it was colin powell's phrase -- you break it, you bought it. it's going to be a huge drain on russia to have a -- suddenly now be an occupier in ukraine, let alone a guerilla struggle against the occupier, just economically dealing with what do you do with ukraine once you take charge of it? >> i think it's pretty clear that putin's original intention was that the ukrainians were going to fall pretty quickly, he wasn't going to have to kill many civilians at all. he wasn't targeting them in the early days, let's be clear. and he would be welcomed as a liberator. we've heard that before, of course, and not just from the russians. but that is not in any way the way this is going right now. so, you're of course very right that he can take kyiv, but it's