i'm on it but i've given it up. i try not to even look at it. you know, david axelrod wrote this thing essentially saying, look, trump will destroy himself just by being himself. don't focus on that. governor dean, do you agree with that idea? >> i essentially do agree with that. trump has already destroyed his presidency, and i think he'll destroy himself. but we have to give him the rope to do it. if we fall into the trap all republicans did in 2016 and let trump be the issue of the day, we lose, because he's really good at that. he's a narcissist. he's really good at that. >> governor kasich? >> anderson, i don't agree with that, that he'll self-deinstruct. i don't agree with that. but i think you have to have a refrain. i think you have to go back to it all the time. this is what you promised, and what did you deliver? >> right. >> you delivered bupkis. that's what it's got to be, back and forth. he's not going to just fall apart on the stage. i was on the stage with him a lot of debates. i never took the debate. of course i didn't win, but there's a lot of reasons for that as well. >> really good discussion. i appreciate it. thank you.