>> really you get disoriented in that way. you can't tell what is up and down. >> absolutely. >> a lot of the diving is on rebreather. so there is no bubbles. you get disoriented and sometimes follow the weld of the ship's seam to find the surface, to find yourself, to get up on the surface. listening to the conversation earlier, i -- as i understand it, the third mate was at the helm of the ship. i grew up working on charter boats as a kid, before i joined the navy to be a s.e.a.l., i was about to test for my captain's license. it really seems from what i know on the time line the captain was on the bridge close to 20 minutes and just didn't make a decision. as a parent myself, listening -- hearing about the kids making those phone calls to their parents, it just seems like indecision on the captain's part. >> captain staples, there was plenty of time for evacuation or at least for mustering. the ship didn't go down in a matter of minutes.