gibson could have portrayed, or what a pastor or priest could portray on an easter sunday morning, that we really don't have a good picture. that's why i think i chose a book to make that presentation, because it was more digestible but we just have so much confirmation, it's just a very, very bloody, vile, horrible scene. some of the victims of scourging would have their organs exposed. i can just go on and on. i don't want to gross people out. but yes, i think mel could have gone much further and i know it's rather unpopular to say it but he probably was more tempered than we know. and he should be commended for that. >> a fascinating book. it's out in may. getting a lot of attention. thank you for joining me. >> great to be with you. coming up, the president's former pastor in chief on god and country. and the very personal advice he gives to barack obama. [ female announcer ] born from the sweet monk fruit, something this delicious could only come from nature. discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener