fish. for reasons unclear, there was sections of a wooded area in the county where they were closing in on today and as they began to move in they say that they heard a single gunshot and when they came upon the scene they found that adam mayes was laying on the ground with the self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. but they found the two girls, ages 8 and 12, alive and well. that's the most important information and we have this quote from a federal source on the scene. he says of the girls, quote, they are suffering from the experience of being out in the woods and from being kidnapped. they are suffering from dehydration and exhaustion. but they appear to be okay and they are right now undergoing medical treatment for their conditions. so you can imagine what they have been through. >> do we know, are they aware of what happened to their mother and to their sister? >> well, we don't know as a result of them being rescued whether they're aware. we do know according to statements that were made by theresa mayes, the wife of adam mayes, the man who is suspected of carrying out the attack, she witnessed adam mayes murdering joanne baines and adrienne bains when this kidnapping ordeal began. it would appear they were very aware. and according to theresa mayes after their mother and older sister were murdered, they were all -- the two bodies and two young girls placed into a vehicle and driven from tennessee down into mississippi. so you can only imagine how horrific that would have been. >> now, theresa who's in custody has been charged with first-degree murder. did she drive the vehicle or did -- is it known what role she played in this or allegedly played? >> according to the statements, these are coming from the affidavits that authorities filed. originally she was charged with aggravated kidnapping and then first-degree murder as well. it was in the court documents filed at that time that her statements of witnessing the murder and driving the vehicle that carried the girls' bodies down into mississippi, she admitted to doing that. she has subsequently told other people that she was in fear of her life and would never, ever have participated in such a horrible event. >> joining us now on the phone is bobbi booth, the sister of theresa mayes, who had been the wife of adam mayes. it's now confirmed that adam mayes is dead and that the two girls are safe. although dehydrated and shaken by this experience. what are your thoughts on hearing that? >> just i'm glad they're alive. i would like to have seen adam face his charges and stand more accountable. he took the sissy way out, but praise god the girls are safe. that's all that matters. >> do you have any sense of -- i mean, what spurred all this? why he would have done this? >> i have no idea at all. >> and have you talked to your sister since she's been in custody, since she's been charged? >> no, they have not allowed her to have any phone calls. >> what are your thoughts on what your sister's been charged with? >> it's unreal. unreal, because my sister does not have the mental state. i mean, she has the mind like a 10-year-old. i'm not defending her. she needs to stand accountable for her actions. but they need to do -- the whole investigation needs to be done. >> what kind of guy -- i mean, your sister is reported to have said that she feared for her life. what kind of guy was adam mayes? >> aggressive. abusive. crazy, obviously. >> did you ever suspect he was capable of something like this? >> no. and i have known him for 25-plus years. never dreamed he would do this. >> what was his relationship to these girls? >> again, that's not something that i can even answer. my sister has stated that she felt the two youngest girls may have been his. and she felt adam was having an affair with jo ann. because they all seemed to be family friends. all of them, you know, seemed to get along. whenever she would call our close friends, family friend, she would say the kids are over at the house. so she'd have all the kids over her with her and adam or over with gary and jo ann. >> your sister theresa told you she believed that adam mayes was having an affair with jo ann bain who is now accused of killing and was the father to the two girls who he kidnapped, the 8 and 12-year-old girls who are in safe custody. did your sister believe he was the father of adrienne bain who is also accused of killing? >> no. so she just believed he was the father of the two young girls he kidnapped? >> that's my understanding, yes. >> sunny hostin, legal analyst is joining us as well. from a legal standpoint, what's the next step? >> i think the next step is interrogating theresa who is in prison right now or is at least being held. i mean, just because she may not have been the person that pulled the trigger doesn't mean that she won't be held accountable for their murders. so i think that's where this investigation certainly is going. >> when did theresa tell you -- she told you she actually witnessed the killings? >> no. she has not told me any of that. >> but she told you she suspected that they had been killed? >> yes. she told -- see, she has not even told me that. the only thing she told me was about the affair that she felt adam was cheating on her with jo ann. and then when the crime scene -- when they were sent to the motel and the house was listed as the crime scene, she did tell me that they had found bodies and the location of the bodies. >> bobbi, do you know who the girls will be returned to now since their mother is dead? >> i have no idea. >> martin savage, is there any reporting on that? >> no. it would be anticipated that they would go back to their father which is gary bain and obvious he's waiting in whiteville, tennessee, 80 miles away from where this drama played out today in mississippi. he has been somewhat in seclusion and he's been in great distress. we have been informed by authorities. and it's understandable why. but there has to be at least some sense of a bittersweet moment here that at least his two youngest daughters will eventually be returned to him. but before that, they have to be checked out thoroughly. >> well, just a violent end, thankfully, the two girls are safe. martin savage, bobbi booth, i'm sorry for all you and your family going through. and sunny hostin. up next, keeping them honest. 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[ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. keeping them honest. with what appeared to be strong and decisive words from a politician supporting gays and lesbians. not talking about president obama who announced that he believes gays and lesbians should be able to marry. we're talking about mitt romney who said he supported full equality for gays and lesbians 18 years. what did that mean to mitt romney then, full equality and what does he believe now? we'll get into the specifics of what he wrote 18 years ago, but first, news of the timing yesterday from president obama. two senior administration officials say vice president biden met with president obama yesterday morning and apologized to the president for putting him in a tough position. you'll remember last weekend biden speoke out on "meet the press" and it's a matter of who you love. after biden apologized, the president says he knows that biden was speaking from the heart. biden's spokes woman has said that the president has been a leader on this issue from day one and the vice president never intended to distract from that once president obama voiced his support for same-sex marriage, it was all anyone was talking about. here's what romney said yesterday after the president's interview when romney was asked about his own position. >> i have the same view on marriage that i had when i was governor and that i have expressed many times. i believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman. >> well, he also says he does not support civil unions if they have the same rights if a marriage. keeping them honest though, back when romney was running for senate against ted kennedy in massachusetts, romney positioned himself as the gay rights candidate. romney met with the log cabin club in massachusetts and in a letter dated october 6, 1994, wrote, quote, i am more convinced than ever before that as we speak to establish -- as we seek to establish full equality for america's gay and lesbian citizens, i will provide more effective leadership than my opponent. full equality, his words. romney writes also, if we're to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for days an lesbians a mainstream concern. my opponent cannot do this. i can and will. now, one might ask how that can be reconciled with romney's long standing position that same-sex marriage should not be legal? what does it mean? well, in a fox news debate in december, moderator chris wallace brought up the log cabin letter and asked the following question. take a look. >> so you are still more of a champion of gay rights than ted kennedy was? >> i do not believe in discriminating in their sexual orientation. i believe as a republican i had a chance to fight for antidiscrimination. at the same time, chris, in 1994 and throughout my career, i have said i oppose same-sex marriage. marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman. >> it's true that romney has opposed same-sex marriage throughout his career, but at the same time he was pledging support for the gay community. in a 1994 interview with bay windows romney said, i think the gay community needs more support from the republican party. i would be a voice in the republican party to foster antidiscrimination efforts. romney was asked about that quote in january's nbc debate and what he's done to stand up for gay rights. here's what he said. >> from the very beginning in 1994, i said to the gay community, i do not favor same-sex marriage. i oppose same-sex marriage and that has been my view. but if people are looking for someone who will discriminate against gays or will in any way try and suggest that people -- that they have different sexual orientation don't have full rights in this country they won't find that in me. >> full rights, fight for antidiscrimination, all mitt romney's words back then. we'll leave it for you to decide if it makes sense to promote the equality and oppose marriage equality. and here's what he said on fox news just today. >> and if two people of the same gender want to live together, want to have a loving relationship and even want to adopt a child in my state, individua individuals of the same sex can adopt children. but to call that marriage is in my view a departure for the real meaning of that word. >> keeping them honest though back in 2005, romney seemed to oppose same-sex couples raising kids. he was at an event in south carolina and he said today's same-sex couples are marrying under the law in massachusetts. some are having children born to them. we have been asked to change the birth certificates and name them parent a and parent b. joining me right now is kevin can madden, and political strategist, paul begala. full rights, full equality. promised not to discriminate against the gay community. how does that square with romney's position today? what did full equality mean to romney back then? >> well, i don't know the full context of what the debate was taking place in 1994, but i expect in answering that question and in talking about the issue he was talking about discrimination. and that he didn't believe that then as he does now that we should -- that we should discriminate against people base only their sexual identity or sexual orientation. he still holds true the that belief. i think on the issue of marriage i think it comes down to the definition, how the government defines it and what the contract between two people is and that -- his belief is that a marriage should be defined very simply as that -- as a union between one man and one woman. >> but in south carolina when he was talking to conservative groups back in 2005, he made it sound as if he didn't like the idea of gay people having kids. >> well, i don't know what -- i don't know what the exact specifics of that debate were. i know there's been a lot of d different discussions in different states and different jurisdictions about what the laws would be as they relate to adoption or gay adoption. that may have been phrased down in south carolina. i know the law differs there from other states. >> paul, do you see an evolution in governor romney's position from the time he was running in massachusetts to now? >> well, a devolution. you know, from committing -- again and again in writing to the log cabin club for full equality and now even now saying well, i don't support discrimination. yes, he does. governor romney wants to kick people out of the military because they're gay. he wants to reinstate don't ask/don't tell, which was a discriminatory policy. it kicked people out because of their sexual orientation. he supports amending the u.s. constitution. he wants to change our most precious founding document to write discrim nation into it. >> i thought romney said he doesn't want to touch don't ask/don't tell at this point. >> maybe kevin can tell us in the last seven minutes what his latest position is. i can check that. i've been wrong before. >> well, paul, under your definition them in 1996, president obama was then for discrimination and under your definition, president clinton who signed the defense of marriage act was for discrimination. >> that's right. i love president clinton and president obama, they were for discrimination. they have evolved. this is what's odd. when mitt romney said he was for equality only about 25% of americans held that view. so that was a pretty bold thing. that he was saying back then, that governor romney was saying, then mr. romney. today, over 50%. so the american people have been on the same journey that frankly former president clinton has been on and that president obama has been on. the majority of americans now have been on the same journey as president obama and i think that's why this change of position from president obama will not likely hurt him. but i think the position for governor romney likely will because he's going the wrong way, frankly, toward more and more discrimination. >> well, there are a lot of americans out there, paul, who believe that we should be discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation and it should be defined as a union between one man and one woman. from time and time again when that question has been put to voters 32 states, 32 times, people have made their voice heard and -- what they believe should be the definition. >> kevin, doesn't he open himself up to another issue of flip-flopping, when he's running against ted kennedy he's talking about full equality for gays and lesbians and you don't hear him using that anymore more today. today he's talking about opposing same-sex marriage and even civil unions. >> well, look, anderson, i think there's going to be charges of flip-flopping all over this campaign. that's what happens. i think it's up to the voters to decide. i don't believe the voters will be talking about what happened 19 or 15 years ago. i think in this campaign we have an agreement that there's a very clear contrast on the two candidates and how they define what a marriage should be. form governor romney believes it should be between a man around woman. and voters will have a clear choice. >> i just looked this up, romney would preserve open gay service in the military. this was on december 9, 2011. >> okay. i'll stand corrected then. i thought i heard him say that he wanted to reinstate it. i guess i was wrong. i'm happy to be corrected about that. that is a form of discrimination. i'm glad he doesn't want to go back to it. >> kevin, thank you for joining us and paul bhegala. there are some who are saying that president obama's position could hurt his base with african-american voters. but that's not necessarily the case, that the tide he said is turning. i spoke to him right before the broadcast, and i spoke about what he believes mitt romney's definition of equality is. pack in 1994, mitt romney talked about seeking what he said was full equality for gays and lesbians. to you, what does full equality mean? >> full equality means enjoying all of the rights that everybody else in the country enjoys. if everybody else in the country enjoys rights one, two, three and four you have to enjoy the rights too. >> because as recently as yesterday, romney said he didn't favor certainly not same-sex marriage, he didn't favor civil unions if they're identical to marriage in everything but name. does that sound like equality to you? >> no and it isn't like it. >> you have been very outspoken, an outspoken advocate for marriage equality. what was your personal reaction to the president's public endorsement yesterday? >> well, i was thrilled and excited. this was a position i had always thought that he had. i always felt he felt this way. i'm so happy he finally said it. i wish it had been sooner. >> were you surprised he said this before the election? >> well, not because of the series of events that preceded it. the statement from vice president biden, the secretary of education. and just the rising tide in the country of people who changed old ideas and adopted new ideas and said the time for change has come. so i think it was almost inevitable that he would say this sooner or later and i'm happy it was sooner rather than later. >> there's a lot of question of support among african-americans for same-sex marriage. some african-americans have expressed strong disapproval of the president's position and some wonder if that will affect their support for him in november? sdp >> i don't think so. i think the tide is shifting, people are thinking differently. younger people are saying these are old fashioned ideas, we don't feel that way. my mom, my dad may. but i don't feel that way. i think president obama is going with the tide. he's sensed the feeling of people are -- people are different now. and he's willing to take a risk that this will affect his election, but i don't think it will affect it one whit except for those who will say my enthusiasm for him has grown since he made the statement. >> a lot of people look at the african-american community and say there's not a lot of support for same-sex marriage there. do you think the tide is turning even for african-americans? do you think that's overstated the opposition to same-sex marriage among african-americans? >> i know the tide is changing. i can see from poll results where the support for same-sex marriage used to be minimal. it's drew -- it grew and grew. i'm not sure what it is now, but i think at least a majority if not more of african-americans say this is the right thing to do. >> you though have rea